Regeneration

[psalms109:31]

Faith vs. belief

Belief is to believe in what man may believe or preceive something and belief can change.

Faith is to trust God no matter what men may preceive something.

The verse that comes to mind for this.

Trust in the Lord and He will direct your path.

What you believe can change, faith can never change it is the word of God in which we receive our faith.

 

[Pastor Larry]

Justified and counted for righteousness are synonymous for new birth, salvation, regeneration, etc.

Not in Scripture and theology they aren't. This continues to be a fundamental error.

 

[skypair]

Not in Scripture and theology they aren't. This continues to be a fundamental error.

COORECT. They precede the "new birth," right?

skypair

 

[MB]

We are discussing regeneration. The initial event in salvation is regeneration, the theological term synonymous with ‘rebirth’ or ‘being born again’. Regeneration is solely the work of God the Holy Spirit whereby those who are spiritually dead in trespass and sin are made spiritual alive and are brought into union with Jesus Christ. Unregenerate man is incapable of submitting to or interacting with God as the Apostle Paul notes in the following Scripture.

1 Corinthians 2:14, KJV
14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know [them], because they are spiritually discerned.

Does this one verse Nullify this passage below?
Rom 1:17 For therein is revealed a righteousness of God from faith unto faith: as it is written, But the righteous shall live by faith.
Rom 1:18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hinder the truth in unrighteousness;
Rom 1:19 because that which is known of God is manifest in them; for God manifested it unto them.
Rom 1:20 For the invisible things of him since the creation of the world are clearly seen, being perceived through the things that are made, even his everlasting power and divinity; that they may be without excuse:
Or is it that 1st Cor 2:14 is speaking about the deeper things of God? as in verse 10. and not necessarily the gospel.

Insofar as man himself is concerned, perhaps even aware, the initial event in salvation is the effectual calling of the Holy Spirit. Jesus Christ vividly demonstrate this difference between the effect of the gospel call on the unregenerate man and the regenerate man in the parable of the sower [Matthew 13:3-9, 18-23]. In this parable four people heard the Gospel call but only one, the last, received the effectual call. He received the seed into good ground, ground that had been prepared through regeneration by the Holy Spirit.

Yet each place of ground received the gospel. it was sown in there hearts. A feat that according to total depravity is impossible. Even the way side received it though Satan came and took it away.
The seed that fell on stony Ground endured for a while. In other words He believed but he had no root.
Mat 13:21 Yet hath he not root in himself, but dureth for a while: for when tribulation or persecution ariseth because of the word, by and by he is offended.
The seed that fell among the thorns;
Mat 13:22 He also that received seed among the thorns is he that heareth the word; and the care of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches, choke the word, and he becometh unfruitful.
He even hears the word but the cares of this world made him unfruitful.
How do you suppose these could receive and hear and still not be saved of bare fruit.
Were they regenerated and then died Spiritually all over again? Sort of disputes the disability to hear the word.

Conversion is the result of conscious act of a regenerate person in which he responds to the effectual call and turns to God in faith and repentance. Conversion is in reality an acknowledgment that one has experienced regeneration, justification, adoption, and pardon. In conversion the regenerate person submits to Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior. As the believer grows in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ [2 Peter 3:18] he will come to more fully understand these graces and, though they are freely bestowed, the extent of the actual cost. It is important to realize that conversion is a personal transaction between God and man. It is also important to understand that both faith and repentance are gifts of God [Ephesians 2:8; Acts 5:31; Acts 11:18]

I agree that Saving faith and being granted repentance is a gift of God. So is Salvation. Although regeneration is still defined as being saved by every dictionary I've seen.
I just have one more question if you please. This person named Turetin. (I'm sorry I'm not sure of the spelling of his name). He is the person who it is said worked out this idea of regeneration before faith. What makes Him so right about it when not one scripture ever says regeneration is the starting point of Salvation? Not one scripture or group of passages even suggest it.
MB

 

[npetreley]

COORECT. They precede the "new birth," right?

skypair

Huh? Justification and imputation of righteousness precedes the new birth? Where'd you get that idea?

 

[psalms109:31]

Rebirth

Those who remain in Jesus are justified and regenerated.

Those who endure to the end shall be saved.

The new birth happens after we believe in God's timming not ours.

Did they receive the Holy Spirit when they believed they answered no we do not know what the Holy Spirit is.

 

[Jkdbuck76]

The work of God is that we believe.

We cannot believe until we have faith.

It does not matter what we believe we are to have faith in Jesus and He will direct our path.

Praise be to Jesus, i am hopeless without Him.

faith and belief are the same aren't they? I looked it up in a Webster's.....

are they different in theology?

 

[skypair]

We are discussing regeneration. The initial event in salvation is regeneration, the theological term synonymous with ‘rebirth’ or ‘being born again’.

OR -- I just marvel at this. When, then, (BEFORE "effectual call") does "regeneration come? I just cannot find it.

Help us, please!

skypair

 

[skypair]

We are discussing regeneration. The initial event in salvation is regeneration, the theological term synonymous with ‘rebirth’ or ‘being born again’.

OR -- I just marvel at this. When, then, (BEFORE "effectual call") does "regeneration come? I just cannot find it.

Help us, please!

skypair

 

[skypair]

Huh? Justification and imputation of righteousness precedes the new birth? Where'd you get that idea?

Ah! Admission at last! Because "new birth" requires justification. As you no doubt believe, in the "new birth" the Holy Spirit indwells a person, right? That is our power to do what God commands and to be sanctified.

But first we need to be "justified." God's not going to put His Spirit in someone who doesn't even know Him, is He? "Ask and you shall receive," He said. You must believe and ask for salvation before you receive it and the "new birth."

skypair

 

[johnp.]

faith and belief are the same aren't they? I looked it up in a Webster's.....
are they different in theology?

They are now Jkdbuck. It's like the difference between red and red.

john.

 

[psalms109:31]

Beliuef and faith

faith and belief are the same aren't they? I looked it up in a Webster's.....

are they different in theology?

Belief is changable, faith is unchangable like the word of God.

To believe in anything is just belief. To believe and trust in the word of God is faith.

 

[johnp.]

Rom 4:5 -- "But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness." See, the man that believeth WORKETH NOT.

The verse says 'believe' and Jesus said that belief is a work. "The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent."

"The work believe
"The work believe
"The work believe

I think Jesus said to believe is a work. What do you say Gordon Slocum? Tell me 'believe' means faith but belief means ........?

john.

 

[Blammo]

Blammo ...man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ...

Did Jesus say faith was a work or not? JN 6:29 Jesus answered, "The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent."

Either way that is read, either God works faith in us as it is God's work or it is a work God requires of you and you are saved by works. Which is it?

john.

John 6:29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

Notice it is THE work, not A work, and that YE do it. As in:

Acts 16:30-31 And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved? And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

It is so simple. Why do you insist on complicating it?

Believing in not "works", not "a work", it is "the work".

 

[psalms109:31]

Faith

First faith through the words of God comes then belief.

Faith not like belief comes not from yourself, but the word of God.

Faith comes from hearing through the words of Jesus.

Belief is not the same thing, I will depend on the word of God to define what faith means.

You must first trust in the word of God no matter what, to believe.

It is the work of God that we believe, because we have to trust in Him.

 

[psalms109:31]

God

Until we just trust in God and His word and let Him in to work in our lives.

We will never know what, how, and why we believe.

 

[OldRegular]

Especially for skypair, may God open his eyes

Originally Posted by OldRegular
We are discussing regeneration. The initial event in salvation is regeneration, the theological term synonymous with ‘rebirth’ or ‘being born again’.

Response Posted by skypair
OR -- I just marvel at this. When, then, (BEFORE "effectual call") does "regeneration come? I just cannot find it.

Help us, please!

skypair

skypair, you remind me of those who are addressed by Jesus Christ in the following:

John 3:12. If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things?

I will present Ephesians 2:1-10 again and ask you to tell me where it indicates that faith is a prerequisite to the one who is spiritually dead being made spiritually alive or where effectual call is mentioned.

Ephesians 2:1-7, NKJV
1 And you He made alive, who were dead in trespasses and sins,
2 in which you once walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience,
3 among whom also we all once conducted ourselves in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, just as the others.
4 But God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us,
5 even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved),
6 and raised us up together, and made us sit together in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus,
7 that in the ages to come He might show the exceeding riches of His grace in His kindness toward us in Christ Jesus.

skypair can you show me where in Scripture effectual call is mentioned? The Gospel Call cannot become effective until spiritual rebirth occurs and saving faith is imparted. That is what Paul is telling us in the following passage:

1Corinthians 2:14 [/i]But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

One who is spiritually dead cannot spiritually discern.

 

[psalms109:31]

Nothing good in me

There is nothing good in me that is in my flesh, so who can save me from this body of death praise be to Jesus.

The body which is the natural man has no hope.

God is reaching the inner man

See we are receiving the goal of our faith the salvation of our soul.

 

[skypair]

faith and belief are the same aren't they? I looked it up in a Webster's.....

are they different in theology?

jdbuck,

Let's see if we can delineate the difference. In belief, you have no evidence, no proof. Belief is like an opinion except a little more grounded in logic rather than emotion.

Faith is when you have evidence -- like born again believers have the Holy Spirit indwelling them. God's spirit testifying with yours is evidence. Let's face it -- you can have faith in your partner, right? When you commit to her and she to you, do you have evidence?

skypair

 

[johnp.]

Belief is changable, faith is unchangable like the word of God.
To believe in anything is just belief Psalms. To believe and trust in the word of God is faith.

Are you three doing some sort of research on us?

Belief is required by God for eternal life and Jesus says belief is a work.
JN 6:29 Jesus answered, "The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent."

To believe in anything is just belief. To believe and trust in the word of God is faith.

To believe in anything is to have faith in that, to believe and trust in a chair is faith why don't you use a dictionary stop making it up yourselves? The bible is made from English words used properly. You are trying to confuse the language and make it mean whatever you want it to for some reason.

First faith through the words of God comes then belief.

You are not even consistant. Belief you say comes first.

john.