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Replacement Theology
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And that was my question. How did the jews get a monopoly on that term? They're not the only semites. Why not just say anti-jewish? I think you'll find that it was a concerted effort to take the focus off the real issue and make it an issue of race. As long as you want to argue with slanderous labels, you can have the argument all to yourself.DHK said:
Anyway, you stick to your idea that there are two peoples of God and two distinct covenants. And I'll stick to Paul who said there is no more jew or gentile, and that Christ has made all the nations of the earth one blood.
BTW, my sincere apologies for flying off the handle earlier. Now go and correct your edits. I did not use inappropriate language, I called you stupid, which was wrong to do, but you are giving others the wrong impression of what I did.
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I believe I have heard the word "semitic" in a more general reference, but it usually has to be clarified when it is used as such. But I have never heard "anti-semitic," in any other way then "against the Jews." How that came to be I don't know. It may have come from the enemies of the Jews, not the Jews themselves. Just a guess though.Aaron said:
And certainly it is an issue of race. They are a nation and race both. (race being of ethnic origin, for the only race is that of Adam's). Who can forget the holocaust--it was genocide; a racial cleansing. Time and time again the Jews have been persecuted throughout history. Does this make it an issue of race. No, it is realistic. It is historic. It is fact.
Paul spends an entire epistle (Ephesians) detailing how we (believers) are all one in Christ whether Jew or Gentile. He refers to it as a mystery--something that was not revealed before.
But that does not negate that the unbelieving Jews still exist as Jews. Who crucified Christ? Who yelled: Crucify Him! Crucify Him! It was the Jews! On the Day of Pentecost some of them got saved; many of them did not. In 1Cor.10 Paul states that there are the Jews, the Gentiles, and the church of God, those three divisions. Paul states that the three divisions stick to this day. One does not replace the other. Paul went to the Jew first and then to the Greek--always, on his missionary journeys.
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Originally Posted by Grasshopper
But calling someone a heretic and anti-semetic is A-OK to this moderator. Nice.
As has been corroborated by others: Replacement Theology is heresy. In fact it is an anti-semitic heresy. I tend to attack the heresy itself not the person. I have said many times that this is an anti-semitic heresy. But have I said even one time that you are a heretic? There is a difference.
I have yet to see anybody on here who thinks the Church took the place of Israel.
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Explain this verse in light of "all Isreal shall be saved".:
Rom 9:6 Not however that the Word of God has failed, for not all those of Israel are Israel;
Is all Israel saved or just a remnant:
Even from the OT promises we know that "all Israel" refers to the remnant. So "all Israel" really doesn't mean all Israel.God has promised himself a remnant. And that remnant will be all of the Israelites living at the time when Christ comes.
Rom 9:27 Isaiah also cries concerning Israel, "Though the number of the sons of Israel is as the sands of the sea, a remnant shall be saved.
--And surely she will, at the end of the Tribulation when Christ comes. Tribulation is past.
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Paul taught nothing but the hope of Israel:
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Act 28:20 For this cause, then, I called for you, to see and to speak with you. For I have this chain around me for the hope of Israel.
Paul wrote 13 epistles. I believe he wrote more than just of "the hope of Israel." :laugh:What had Paul taught up until this time?
He expresses his burden for the nation of Israel here, for he himself was still an Israelite. He never denied his heritage. Yet he said it was meaningless as far as salvation goes.
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Since we have no connection to Israel, why should we care about Paul's theology? Paul taught the hope of Israel not the hope of the Church.
Since we have no connection with Moses why should we care about the Pentateuch?
Since we have no connection with John why should we care about John's writings?
Why not just discard the whole Bible?
So you admit you believe we have no connection with Paul?
Paul wrote 13 epistles; each epistle was either written to a local church or to a pastor of a local church. How do you say that Paul had no care of the church? He went on three missionary journeys and established over 100 local churches in his lifetime. How say you that he had no care for the church? I don't say that. Logically your position does.
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Has the New Covenant been made? Yes or no?
Have we entered into the age of grace? Yes or no?
Interstingly you can't answer a yes or no question. I'll show you how its done: YES, I believe we have entered the age of grace. Now can you answer mine?
Gal 3:27 For as many as were baptized into Christ, you put on Christ.
Gal 3:28 There cannot be Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is no male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus.
Gal 3:29 And if you are Christ's, then you are Abraham's seed and heirs according to the promise.
What promise? What are we heir too?[/quote]
Galatians 3:23-24 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed. Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
--Don't you just love context?
Paul was contrasting two different dispensations: one of law and the other of grace. What happened before grace? They were all under the law. What did the law do? It was schoolmaster, a teacher, that pointed us to Christ. The law points out our sin. The law doesn't save. But Christ does save. We are justified by faith in Christ.
Galatians 3:26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
--Why didn't you post this verse. It is the key to the passage isn't it? How were the OT saints saved? By faith.
Galatians 3:29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.
--Read Romans 4:1-5. Abraham was justified by faith. We are justified by faith. In the same way we are the spiritual children of Abraham, spiritual and that is all. It is an illustration.
So what was the promise and what are we heir to? Is your answer "justication by faith"?
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Why does Linda not answer questions?
Because it is a free country. She is not in an interrogation room. Communism isn't the state "religion." Any other reasons I can give you?
Gee, maybe because it is a debate forum. Maybe you should at least show the courtesy of answering questions of someone you label anti-semetic?
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Does God love her just a little more because she is Jewish? She seems to think so.
I leave you to your own intelligence to answer that.
No, I think she answered that on her own.
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The LORD said to Abram: "Go forth from the land of your kinsfolk and from your father's house to a land that I will show you. 2 "I will make of you a great nation, and I will bless you; I will make your name great, so that you will be a blessing. 3
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1 I will bless those who bless you and curse those who curse you. All the communities of the earth shall find blessing in you."
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Do all OT promises apply today? If so, do the curses of Deuteronomy still apply today? I never hear Dispies talk about those.
These are promises given to Abraham, literally. They were not given to anyone else but Abraham. What is difficult to understand about them. It is dispies who apply it to us today, so ask them.Out of Abraham there was a great nation that was made--Israel. God blessed them--immensely. Their name was made great. Study history. I have, perhaps you should teach your fellow dispies. The last verse will find ultimate fulfillment in the MK. Where in scripture?
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Webdog is right, you should ban everyone who doesn't agree with the Hal Lindsey-Jack VanImpe-John Hagee view of eschatology. It seems anything other than that is heresy and anti-semetic to the moderators. Lets really purify the Board and get rid of the Calvinists as well then we'll only have the true Baptist/Christians on the board.
If you want to start a petition to that effect, go ahead. I won't stop you. Of course you wouldn't. Do you think that bad-mouthing others is going to score brownie points with anyone on this board? Don't know, I just treat others as they treat me.
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John Hagee who thinks two-thirds of the Jews living in Israel will be slaughtered by the anti-christ in the near future is flying as many Jews into Israel as he can to help God along is a hero.
We live in a free country. John Hagee has the right to believe whatever he wants. If he wants to believe that salvation will come from Islam (not that he does), that is not my business. And frankly I don't care. You disagree that two thirds of the Jews will be killed?
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http://www.jhm.org/pastor.asp
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John Hagee Ministries has given more than $8.5 million to bring Soviet Jews from the former Soviet Union to Israel.
And your point is? Is he your hero? Are you concerned? Why the pre-occupation with John Hagee?
He is the face of the worship of modern Israel. Is it a good thing to fly Jews to Israel to live?
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Who are the real anti-semites?
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Besides Islam, I believe there are some on this board, unfortunately.
Care to name names? At least be honest about it.
Originally Posted by Grasshopper
But calling someone a heretic and anti-semetic is A-OK to this moderator. Nice.
As has been corroborated by others: Replacement Theology is heresy. In fact it is an anti-semitic heresy. I tend to attack the heresy itself not the person. I have said many times that this is an anti-semitic heresy. But have I said even one time that you are a heretic? There is a difference.
I have yet to see anybody on here who thinks the Church took the place of Israel.
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Explain this verse in light of "all Isreal shall be saved".:
Rom 9:6 Not however that the Word of God has failed, for not all those of Israel are Israel;
Is all Israel saved or just a remnant:
Even from the OT promises we know that "all Israel" refers to the remnant. So "all Israel" really doesn't mean all Israel.God has promised himself a remnant. And that remnant will be all of the Israelites living at the time when Christ comes.
Rom 9:27 Isaiah also cries concerning Israel, "Though the number of the sons of Israel is as the sands of the sea, a remnant shall be saved.
--And surely she will, at the end of the Tribulation when Christ comes. Tribulation is past.
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Paul taught nothing but the hope of Israel:
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Act 28:20 For this cause, then, I called for you, to see and to speak with you. For I have this chain around me for the hope of Israel.
Paul wrote 13 epistles. I believe he wrote more than just of "the hope of Israel." :laugh:What had Paul taught up until this time?
He expresses his burden for the nation of Israel here, for he himself was still an Israelite. He never denied his heritage. Yet he said it was meaningless as far as salvation goes.
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Since we have no connection to Israel, why should we care about Paul's theology? Paul taught the hope of Israel not the hope of the Church.
Since we have no connection with Moses why should we care about the Pentateuch?
Since we have no connection with John why should we care about John's writings?
Why not just discard the whole Bible?
So you admit you believe we have no connection with Paul?
Paul wrote 13 epistles; each epistle was either written to a local church or to a pastor of a local church. How do you say that Paul had no care of the church? He went on three missionary journeys and established over 100 local churches in his lifetime. How say you that he had no care for the church? I don't say that. Logically your position does.
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Has the New Covenant been made? Yes or no?
Have we entered into the age of grace? Yes or no?
Interstingly you can't answer a yes or no question. I'll show you how its done: YES, I believe we have entered the age of grace. Now can you answer mine?
Gal 3:27 For as many as were baptized into Christ, you put on Christ.
Gal 3:28 There cannot be Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is no male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus.
Gal 3:29 And if you are Christ's, then you are Abraham's seed and heirs according to the promise.
What promise? What are we heir too?[/quote]
Galatians 3:23-24 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed. Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
--Don't you just love context?
Paul was contrasting two different dispensations: one of law and the other of grace. What happened before grace? They were all under the law. What did the law do? It was schoolmaster, a teacher, that pointed us to Christ. The law points out our sin. The law doesn't save. But Christ does save. We are justified by faith in Christ.
Galatians 3:26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
--Why didn't you post this verse. It is the key to the passage isn't it? How were the OT saints saved? By faith.
Galatians 3:29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.
--Read Romans 4:1-5. Abraham was justified by faith. We are justified by faith. In the same way we are the spiritual children of Abraham, spiritual and that is all. It is an illustration.
So what was the promise and what are we heir to? Is your answer "justication by faith"?
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Why does Linda not answer questions?
Because it is a free country. She is not in an interrogation room. Communism isn't the state "religion." Any other reasons I can give you?
Gee, maybe because it is a debate forum. Maybe you should at least show the courtesy of answering questions of someone you label anti-semetic?
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Does God love her just a little more because she is Jewish? She seems to think so.
I leave you to your own intelligence to answer that.
No, I think she answered that on her own.
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The LORD said to Abram: "Go forth from the land of your kinsfolk and from your father's house to a land that I will show you. 2 "I will make of you a great nation, and I will bless you; I will make your name great, so that you will be a blessing. 3
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1 I will bless those who bless you and curse those who curse you. All the communities of the earth shall find blessing in you."
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Do all OT promises apply today? If so, do the curses of Deuteronomy still apply today? I never hear Dispies talk about those.
These are promises given to Abraham, literally. They were not given to anyone else but Abraham. What is difficult to understand about them. It is dispies who apply it to us today, so ask them.Out of Abraham there was a great nation that was made--Israel. God blessed them--immensely. Their name was made great. Study history. I have, perhaps you should teach your fellow dispies. The last verse will find ultimate fulfillment in the MK. Where in scripture?
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Webdog is right, you should ban everyone who doesn't agree with the Hal Lindsey-Jack VanImpe-John Hagee view of eschatology. It seems anything other than that is heresy and anti-semetic to the moderators. Lets really purify the Board and get rid of the Calvinists as well then we'll only have the true Baptist/Christians on the board.
If you want to start a petition to that effect, go ahead. I won't stop you. Of course you wouldn't. Do you think that bad-mouthing others is going to score brownie points with anyone on this board? Don't know, I just treat others as they treat me.
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John Hagee who thinks two-thirds of the Jews living in Israel will be slaughtered by the anti-christ in the near future is flying as many Jews into Israel as he can to help God along is a hero.
We live in a free country. John Hagee has the right to believe whatever he wants. If he wants to believe that salvation will come from Islam (not that he does), that is not my business. And frankly I don't care. You disagree that two thirds of the Jews will be killed?
Quote:
http://www.jhm.org/pastor.asp
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John Hagee Ministries has given more than $8.5 million to bring Soviet Jews from the former Soviet Union to Israel.
And your point is? Is he your hero? Are you concerned? Why the pre-occupation with John Hagee?
He is the face of the worship of modern Israel. Is it a good thing to fly Jews to Israel to live?
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Who are the real anti-semites?
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Besides Islam, I believe there are some on this board, unfortunately.
Care to name names? At least be honest about it.
Let me address this first.Grasshopper said:
I have, with reliable evidence and outside links, set forth what Replacement Theology really is--its insiduous nature; its heretical doctrines, and its anti-semitic nature.
I don't have to name names. All that adhere to this doctrine (as I have described it), are by default, anti-semitic. Is that clear enough?
I have no idea what the questions were. I NEVER stated that God loves ME just a little more because of being ethnically Jewish. God is no respecter of persons when speaking of salvation. ALL (Jew and Gentile) get saved the same way. Unsaved Jews, as well as unsaved Gentiles are on their way to hell without Christ. Ethnicity had nothing to do with my salvation.Grasshopper said:
God did, however, CHOOSE the Jews as His special people (Deuteronomy 7:6-10)--He gave them covenants and promises that are eternal. Those promises and covenants have not been fulfilled in the Church. They will always belong to Israel. God has not forsaken Israel. Israel still exists as a nation just as prophecy foretold it would. The nation Israel is back in its land in preparation for the literal fulfillment of all the prophecies pertaining to it. This means that God has not permanently rejected the nation Israel, but has only temporarily set them aside until He is ready to fulfill His promises to them.
Romans 11:25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
Romans 11:26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
Romans 11:27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.
Romans 11:28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes.
Romans 11:29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.
DHK said:
Then don't pretend not to be a name-caller:
"But have I said even one time that you are a heretic?"
Linda said this:
"Those promises and covenants have not been fulfilled in the Church. They will always belong to Israel."
She obviously believes the promised New Covenant has not been made, you by your refusal to answer the same question seem to indicate the same thing. Is this your stance? The New Covenant has not been made yet?
2 Timothy2:1-4
New Member
Aaron said:
Go on? Nothing to go on about. You say the Bible says something that cannot be found in nay of the 14 Bibles on my shelf. Not even in the weakest of translations such as the NIV or Message. What version do you pull your scripture from?
For the jews it is an issue of race, because they and you are respecters of persons.DHK said:
This will be my last post in this thread. I want to highlight the inferior and temporal nature of Judaism, and explain that any teaching of a future restoration of these things trumps anything that might be called antisemetism—it is anti-Christ.
1. The priesthood:
In Hebrews, the Apostle teaches quite clearly that the Levitical priesthood was inferior and temporary. It was inferior because perfection could not be attained thereby. He contrasted that with the order of Melchizedek, which is a superior and eternal priesthood without beginning of days or end of life. He taught that Abraham paid tithes to and received a blessing from Melchizedek, and without all contradiction the less is blessed of the better, Heb. 7:7
Christ is a priest of this order by virtue of an endless life. Now that we have a Great High Priest who abides forever in the true Holy of Holies, and from which perfection is attained, the weak, inferior, carnal commandment which created the Levitical priesthood is done away with forever.
2: The Tabernacle/Temple
The earthly Levitical priesthood being disannulled, there is no more need for an earthly tabernacle. The tabernacle was made with human hands, and served as a dwelling place for God in the midst of Israel, but it was only a symbol of the true tabernacle. Christ has entered into Heaven, the true Holy of Holies, Heb. 9:11, 24.
In fact, as long as an earthly tabernacle/temple stands, it testifies that Christ did not come and offer the sacrifice of His own body and make atonement for the sins of His people, Heb. 9:8.
3. The Offerings:
I shouldn't have to say much about the blood of bulls and goats. It never could take away sins. They only served as a reminder of sins from year to year, Heb. 10:3-4.
But now, being sanctified by the blood of our own Great High Priest, we are made perfect, and there is no more need to offer sacrifice.
The earthly tabernacle, the priesthood and the offerings being disannulled and forever done away with by the real and superior Tabernacle, Priesthood and Offering, there is no longer a Holy Land on earth. True worship for any people is no longer in any geographical location, it's wherever the feet of a Christian is standing. (John 4:21-24)
Now the entire reason stated that God took a tribe of people from the earth and set them apart in a geographical location in the Mediterranean for the true worship of Jehovah has been fulfilled. They can't build a temple, they can't reinstate the priesthood and the offerings. This is no longer acceptable to God. There is no longer any earthly promise or inheritance for the jews. The Old Covenant ratified by the blood of beasts has been folded up and put away. There is a New and superior Covenant ratified by the blood of the Son of God, and it will never end.
The anti-Christ nature of Zionism should now be evident.
Now, this knowledge is available to all in Hebrews 7 - 10. Take these chapters to Daniel and Revelation, not the other way around.
All of this is established IN Christ to the believer, BUT if you are a Jew or of the Jewish belief, then you do not hold that the Christ was Jesus.Aaron said:
Therefore, to them NOTHING was yet fulfilled and it REMAINS necessary for them to continue in all of the above in the blindness God veiled them with TILL the Son of Perdition come and the veil be lifted as a Nation from their eyes. In this they will (according to scripture) see both the Anti-Christ and the True Christ for they truly are.
The one they will THINK is their christ will in fact reveal to them the One True Christ they rejected for so long but NOW will be brought back unto God, BY GOD.
Allan said:
I would say He's no respecter of persons with regard to anything -- BUT that doesn't mean He doesn't choose one person over another for this or that purpose. It only means His choices are for His own reasons. He chooses whomever He will according to His good pleasure -- not because of anything about us that recommends one person over another. He chose Abraham for multiple purposes, and Abraham had reason to rejoice and feel blessed about it. Nothing wrong with that. He chose the Jews for multiple purposes, etc.
Can any Dispie answer this question:
Has the New Covenant been made?
Has the New Covenant been made?
Benjamin said:
Why didn't I just listen to you.:BangHead: :BangHead:
Who would want to answer it, except maybe someone who believes in covenant theology. To the rest of us it is clearly an ambiguous question. It needs no answer. It is a question that is meant to bait. The dispensation of law is over, and we have entered the dispensation of grace. God has made an everlasting covenant with the Jews that will never end. You can read about it in Exodus 31. The sign of that covenant is the Sabbath Day, which is a sign given to the nation of Israel and to their generations forever and ever. It is a covenant that was never given to Gentiles or even Gentile believers. Nowhere are we commanded to keep the Sabbath. That is just one example.Grasshopper said:
So your question is very ambiguous and IMO meant to bait.
DHK said:
What? You seriously can't answer if the New Covenant has been made?
Mat 26:28 For this is My blood of the new covenant, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.
Is this the New Covenant that the Prophets spoke of?
I doubt if the Lord's Table is the fulfillment of the covenant that the prophets spoke of. That is the context of those words.Grasshopper said:
Jeremiah 31:33-34 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.
It seems quite evident that the "new covenant" that the prophets spoke of will never be fulfilled until Christ comes and sets up his kingdom.
"They shall ALL know me" Has this taken place yet?