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[annsni]

James tells them to submit to God! People who want God to save them must submit to God.

James 4:7-10 Submit yourselves, then, to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you. 8 Come near to God and he will come near to you. Wash your hands, you sinners, and purify your hearts, you double-minded. 9 Grieve, mourn and wail. Change your laughter to mourning and your joy to gloom. 10 Humble yourselves before the Lord, and he will lift you up.

You can keep typing the same thing - and ignoring the fact that the audience was saved. If you do not consider the context, you are in error.

You sure are confused. Worldly sorrow brings death, yet you claim those people are sorry for their sins as well! Will you say anything to protect a false religion? Godly sorrow brings repentance that leads to salvation. Can you admit that REPENTING LEADS TO SALVATION?

2 Corinthians 7:10 Godly sorrow brings repentance that leads to salvation and leaves no regret, but worldly sorrow brings death.

What is worldly sorrow that leads to death?

 

[Moriah]

Godly sorrow is the sorrow of saved individuals. He is writing to the church, the saints at Corinth. They were the ones with "Godly sorrow." An unsaved man does not come to Christ with "Godly sorrow." He cannot. The repentance spoken of here is the repentance over a sin committed by a believer, not an unbeliever. The salvation spoken of here is a possible physical salvation, such as a deliverance from death (1Cor.11:30). Believers don't need to be saved. You have taken this verse out of context and you use it for your own pre-determined theology which the Bible condemns.
Salvation is not of works. It is the free gift of God.
You deny the teaching of both Eph.2:8,9 and Rom.6:23, as well as Rom.4:1-5, and Rom.5:1. Let me see you explain those scriptures.

The scripture says, “Godly sorrow brings repentance that leads to salvation.”
Your false beliefs that deny the scriptures do not even make sense. The Bible says repent and you will be saved, yet you say no not so, and you say that we believe and then after we are saved, be ready to do things you had no idea you had to do. lol

As for you wanting me to explain other scriptures, I have, but you do not see it.

 

[Moriah]

[/B]My question to you was: Where does it say one must be saved on the basis on being sorry for their sins?
You have not answered that question.

The entire epistle is written to "my brethren," or Christians. For example, just in the previous chapter, James writes:
James 3:1 My brethren, be not many masters, knowing that we shall receive the greater condemnation.
--One doesn't address the unsaved like that.
The closing verse of chapter three, right before chapter four starts is this:
James 3:18 And the fruit of righteousness is sown in peace of them that make peace.
--The fruit of righteousness comes only from saved individuals.
--Remember also there were no chapter divisions in the original Greek. They were put in much later. Thus "my brethren" applies as much to chapter four as it does to chapter three.

Chapter 4:7-10 is written to believers, not to the unsaved. It has nothing to do with the unsaved. It has nothing to do with being sorry for sins in order to be saved.

You still haven't answered my question. Where does it say in the Bible that one must be saved on the basis of being sorry for one's sins?
It doesn't.

I will tell you this. If one is sorry for their sins, and that is all he will go to Hell! Judas was sorry for his sins, went out and hung him self, and is in hell today. Being sorry for your sins doesn't cut it. That is not what Christ demands. He demands faith in him, faith in his atoning blood.
Salvation is by faith and faith alone.

I even already explained your ridiculous Judas defense. A person has to believe they are forgiven. Do you think Judas believed he was forgiven?

Seeing how you cannot retain the truth that I speak, at least I repeat things and other people will have a chance to consider it.

 

[DHK]

The scripture says, “Godly sorrow brings repentance that leads to salvation.”
Your false beliefs that deny the scriptures do not even make sense. The Bible says repent and you will be saved, yet you say no not so, and you say that we believe and then after we are saved, be ready to do things you had no idea you had to do. lol

As for you wanting me to explain other scriptures, I have, but you do not see it.

1. Show me your explanations of the Scriptures I gave
2. Instead of asserting that "Godly sorrow brings repentance that leads to salvation," show me where it says that, and that the context is actually teaching about spiritual salvation. Do saved people need to be saved again? Does the Bible teach that one needs to be born again, and again, and again? Is that truly your theology?
3. I agree the Bible teaches repentance. But you have a wrong definition of repentance. It is not sorrow for sin. Judas was sorry for his sin and went out and hung himself. Was he saved?
4. The Philippian Jailer was told to "believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved." Do you believe that statement? Was he saved?

 

[Moriah]

The TRUTH is: Salvation is by faith alone, and not of works, a truth "you do not see."

Here is another post you cannot answer, and have not answered.

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When are you going to answer this Moriah?

I already explained it to you. You just do not see. No wonder, for Jesus reveals him to those who have his teachings and obey them. However, you say we do not have to obey. You even say that after we are saved sinning does not affect our salvation.

 

[DHK]

I even already explained your ridiculous Judas defense. A person has to believe they are forgiven. Do you think Judas believed he was forgiven?

But he was sorry for his sins. That is the prerequisite that you used.

Seeing how you cannot retain the truth that I speak, at least I repeat things and other people will have a chance to consider it.

The trouble here is that you have not been telling the truth from the Word of God. You have been posting falsehoods and things that are contrary to the Word of God. I do retain the truth. I also retain the falsehoods that you post. And I will continue to refute them as long as you post them. Salvation is not of works. Salvation is by faith and faith alone.

 

[DHK]

I already explained it to you. You just do not see. No wonder, for Jesus reveals him to those who have his teachings and obey them. However, you say we do not have to obey. You even say that after we are saved sinning does not affect our salvation.

Don't lie to me Moriah.
Not once have you ever attempted to answer this post:

Matthew 19:21 Jesus answered, "If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me."

And have you done that? What third world nations that have never heard the gospel have you been to? Did you sell everything you had to get there and then invest it in getting the gospel to them.

I await your answer Moriah. Have you obeyed Jesus in this matter. If you haven't you will not enter the kingdom of heaven, nor have treasure in heaven, according to your theology.

 

[Moriah]

1. Show me your explanations of the Scriptures I gave.
2. Instead of asserting that "Godly sorrow brings repentance that leads to salvation," show me where it says that, and that the context is actually teaching about spiritual salvation. Do saved people need to be saved again? Does the Bible teach that one needs to be born again, and again, and again? Is that truly your theology?

In your theory, saved people need to be saved…lol…for you are the one who said James is talking about the saved!

Here is another scripture that tells us we must repent.

"…unless you repent, you too will all perish." Luke 13:3

3. I agree the Bible teaches repentance. But you have a wrong definition of repentance. It is not sorrow for sin. Judas was sorry for his sin and went out and hung himself. Was he saved?

I already told you, a person must believe they are forgiven. I know this person that says they believe in God and Jesus, but they have done so much bad stuff they cannot believe they can be forgiven. A person has to believe they are forgiven.

4. The Philippian Jailer was told to "believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved." Do you believe that statement? Was he saved?

The Bible says that those who fear God will be saved. The jailer trembled with fear before Paul said those words to him about being saved. See Psam 145:19, and Acts 10:2.


Not only that, Paul and Silas spoke the word of God to them at his house before they were baptized. There is the message that saves, see Acts 11:14. You are trying to discount the truth because you do not understand the scriptures and you want to believe in only what you were taught a long time ago and were convinced of. That is the way I see it. IMHO.

 

[Moriah]

Don't lie to me Moriah.
Not once have you ever attempted to answer this post:
[/SIZE]

You always resort to this. This is where I will stop debating you, unless you refrain from all personal attacks, including this slander. I spend too much time and care on this board to be treated this way, especially by someone who is supposed to be a moderator.

 

[DHK]

In your theory, saved people need to be saved…lol…for you are the one who said James is talking about the saved!

You said they weren't saved. You were trying to show the passage is the basis that one has to have sorrow for sin in order to be saved. That is not what is teaches is it? They are saved individuals.

Here is another scripture that tells us we must repent.

"…unless you repent, you too will all perish." Luke 13:3

Agreed! People need to repent; not have sorrow for sin.

I already told you, a person must believe they are forgiven. I know this person that says they believe in God and Jesus, but they have done so much bad stuff they cannot believe they can be forgiven. A person has to believe they are forgiven.

Then salvation is by faith, isn't it?

The Bible says that those who fear God will be saved. The jailer trembled with fear before Paul said those words to him about being saved. See Psam 145:19, and Acts 10:2.

The fear did not save him. He asked what must I do to be saved?
They said unto him: "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved."
Fear had nothing to do with it. Salvation is by faith and faith alone.

Not only that, Paul and Silas spoke the word of God to them at his house before they were baptized.

That has nothing to do with the jailer's salvation; but perhaps the salvation of those in his household, and instruction before baptism.

There is the message that saves, see Acts 11:14. You are trying to discount the truth because you do not understand the scriptures and you want to believe in only what you were taught a long time ago and were convinced of. That is the way I see it. IMHO.

Acts 11:14 Who shall tell thee words, whereby thou and all thy house shall be saved.

These are the words of Peter who was describing what happened when he was told to go to the house of Cornelius. He preached the gospel. Many were saved. Not only Cornelius was saved, but so was his household, and then they were baptized. What don't I understand.
Salvation is by faith and faith alone.

 

[DHK]

You always resort to this. This is where I will stop debating you, unless you refrain from all personal attacks, including this slander. I spend too much time and care on this board to be treated this way, especially by someone who is supposed to be a moderator.

Then instead of avoiding the post, which has been posted three or four times now, answer it!

 

[Moriah]

I ask you readers, who will you believe, the words of Jesus Christ, or the words of DHK?

This is the words of Jesus Christ.

I tell you, no! But unless you repent, you too will all perish. Luke 13:3

 

[DHK]

I ask you readers, who will you believe, the words of Jesus Christ, or the words of DHK?

This is the words of Jesus Christ.

I tell you, no! But unless you repent, you too will all perish. Luke 13:3

I never said repentance is not necessary.
I said repentance is not sorrow for sins.
You are wrong Moriah. You don't understand repentance.

 

[annsni]

I even already explained your ridiculous Judas defense. A person has to believe they are forgiven. Do you think Judas believed he was forgiven?

OK - so we have to be sorry for our sins and believe that we are forgiven in order for God to choose us to be saved? :BangHead:

 

[Moriah]

OK - so we have to be sorry for our sins and believe that we are forgiven in order for God to choose us to be saved? :BangHead:

Can you believe it Ann? We actually have to believe the message that saves. We actually have to believe that God forgives us.

 

[Moriah]

Everything you say here, is an example of you playing some kind of word game.

I never said repentance is not necessary.

You say repentance is not necessary to be saved. Yet you read where Jesus said repent or you too will perish. If you say that is only for the unsaved, then you concede that we do have to repent before we are saved. If you say that only after we are saved are we to repent, then you will have to concede that one can lose their salvation. Either way, that scripture goes against you.

I said repentance is not sorrow for sins.

If they are not sorry for their sins, then they are not saved after all. See Luke 3:8 Produce fruit in keeping with repentance. And do not begin to say to yourselves, 'We have Abraham as our father.' For I tell you that out of these stones God can raise up children for Abraham.
See Acts 26:20 First to those in Damascus, then to those in Jerusalem and in all Judea, and to the Gentiles also, I preached that they should repent and turn to God and prove their repentance by their deeds.
2 Corinthians 13:5 Examine yourselves to see whether you are in the faith; test yourselves. Do you not realize that Christ Jesus is in you--unless, of course, you fail the test?

You are wrong Moriah. You don't understand repentance.
[/SIZE]

What you teach are things that go against the Word of God. You teach all anyone has to do is believe, and that they will be saved, and then they will find out that they have to repent, etc. That is ridiculous.

 

[annsni]

Can you believe it Ann? We actually have to believe the message that saves. We actually have to believe that God forgives us.

Thank God your message is not the message of Scripture.

Titus 3:4-8 " But when the goodness and loving kindness of God our Savior appeared, he saved us, not because of works done by us in righteousness, but according to his own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit, whom he poured out on us richly through Jesus Christ our Savior, 7 so that being justified by his grace we might become heirs according to the hope of eternal life. The saying is trustworthy, and I want you to insist on these things, so that those who have believed in God may be careful to devote themselves to good works. These things are excellent and profitable for people."

 

[Moriah]

Thank God your message is not the message of Scripture.

I gave you Jesus’ words, and you say it is not the message of Scripture. Repent or you too will perish. Can you see that? That is what Jesus said in Luke 13:3. You say thank God that is not the message, what in the world is so frightening about repenting? Again, it is the words of Jesus Christ.

Titus 3:4-8 " But when the goodness and loving kindness of God our Savior appeared, he saved us, not because of works done by us in righteousness, but according to his own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit, whom he poured out on us richly through Jesus Christ our Savior, 7 so that being justified by his grace we might become heirs according to the hope of eternal life. The saying is trustworthy, and I want you to insist on these things, so that those who have believed in God may be careful to devote themselves to good works. These things are excellent and profitable for people."

Titus 3 is about Jesus coming the first time! It is about God coming to save us, not by our doing anything to convince Him to save us. It was God’s plan to save us before the creation of the world.

 

[annsni]

Yesterday, I called my son and daughter into the kitchen to come and help me. My son said "I'll be there in a minute. I just need to finish this." That was fine. My daughter, however, got all upset and wouldn't come. I called again, "Joanna, please come here now." She came into the kitchen having such a tizzy fit that I quietly told her "You have lost the privilege of using the computer for the rest of the day." See, she had been on the computer and didn't want to stop. Once she realized that she lost the computer, she had an absolute melt-down. She's 9 years old and knows better. I sent her to her room and told her when she has control of herself to come to the kitchen and we will talk.

About 5 minutes later, a sniffling, sobbing little girl came to the kitchen and said "I'm sorry Mommy. Can I get the computer back?" See, she was sorry just because of having been punished. When I told her that she was forgiven but she would not get the computer back, she went off again and was sent back to her room. She stayed there quite some time before she came down again and apologized again, we reconciled and that was it. She knew she still was not getting on the computer.

Later in the day, she came to me and said "Mommy, when I apologized and said I was sorry, I said that so that you would forgive me but I wasn't really sorry yet. But I realize that I shouldn't have reacted that way and that you were right for punishing me. I'm really sorry for making you sad and I will try to not do it again." She's getting it now. Now instead of just being sorry, she had repented - she was turning from what she had done as well as being sorry. That is a result of the Spirit in her.

Just being sorry doesn't make God choose us. Just believing that we will be forgiven makes God choose us. That is not at all Scriptural. Instead what is Scriptural is grace from God that helps us to see our sin and allows us to turn from it. An unsaved person is never going to be truly sorry for their sin - and even understand just what their sin is - until they bow at the feet of Jesus after their death.

The Biblical model is that not that we make God choose us for what we've done but instead God chooses us because of His mercy. That's it.

 

[annsni]

I gave you Jesus’ words, and you say it is not the message of Scripture. Repent or you too will perish. Can you see that? That is what Jesus said in Luke 13:3. You say thank God that is not the message, what in the world is so frightening about repenting? Again, it is the words of Jesus Christ.

Repentance is not being sorry for your sins.

Titus 3 is about Jesus coming the first time! It is about God coming to save us, not by our doing anything to convince Him to save us. It was God’s plan to save us before the creation of the world.

When Jesus came "the first time"? OK - So you say that it was God's coming to save us, not by our doing anything to convince Him to save us - yet you contradict what you have been arguing all along that God only saves us because we are sorry for our sins and believe that we are forgiven.