Rich men entering the Kingdom

[1689Dave]

Is that what you really think? That the blinding happened at birth? Either way that is not a passive action.

“For he chose us in Christ before the foundation of the world that we may be holy and unblemished in his sight in love.He did this by predestining us to adoption as his sons through Jesus Christ, according to the pleasure of his will—” (Ephesians 1:4–5)

 

[Revmitchell]

“For he chose us in Christ before the foundation of the world that we may be holy and unblemished in his sight in love.He did this by predestining us to adoption as his sons through Jesus Christ, according to the pleasure of his will—” (Ephesians 1:4–5)

"in christ" is the key there. You cannot be one of the chosen until you are in Christ. Again that blinding in Romans is not passive.

 

[1689Dave]

"in christ" is the key there. You cannot be one of the chosen until you are in Christ. Again that blinding in Romans is not passive.

“The one who believes in the Son has eternal life. The one who rejects the Son will not see life, but God’s wrath remains on him.” (John 3:36)

Eternal life is without beginning or end.

 

[Revmitchell]

“The one who believes in the Son has eternal life. The one who rejects the Son will not see life, but God’s wrath remains on him.” (John 3:36)

Eternal life is without beginning or end.

You will not be able to provide scripture for that definition. We certainly has no life before we were born (John 3:5) and we did not have life before were born again. In fact your statement is a bit weird.

 

[1689Dave]

You will not be able to provide scripture for that definition. We certainly has no life before we were born (John 3:5) and we did not have life before were born again. In fact your statement is a bit weird.

““Before I formed you in your mother’s womb I chose you. Before you were born I set you apart. I appointed you to be a prophet to the nations.”” (Jeremiah 1:5)

 

[Revmitchell]

““Before I formed you in your mother’s womb I chose you. Before you were born I set you apart. I appointed you to be a prophet to the nations.”” (Jeremiah 1:5)

He was elected to service. It doesn't say he had perpetual life before he was born. That sounds like a Mormon thing.

 

[1689Dave]

He was elected to service. It doesn't say he had perpetual life before he was born. That sounds like a Mormon thing.

Aren't we all elected to service?

 

[Revmitchell]

Aren't we all elected to service?

You seem to be having trouble staying on topic. The verse you quoted speak to being elected to service but says nothing about salvation.

 

[1689Dave]

You seem to be having trouble staying on topic. The verse you quoted speak to being elected to service but says nothing about salvation.

Since when did God elect the reprobate to serve him?

 

[Revmitchell]

Since when did God elect the reprobate to serve him?

Again off topic. Nothing in your question about perpetual life as being eternal.

 

[Dave G]

You added to scripture there. Sorry for your mistake.

I didn't.
Unbelievers do not have faith:

" And that we may be delivered from unreasonable and wicked men: for all [men] have not faith." ( 2 Thessalonians 3:2 )

With respect, I'm sorry that you apparently think that they do.
If they did, they would believe on Christ, who is the Author and Finisher of the believer's faith:

" looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of [our] faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God." ( Hebrews 12:2 )

In addition, the faith, which was delivered ( given ) to the saints, is not given to all men.
It was delivered to the saints:

" Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort [you] that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints." ( Jude 1:3 )



" For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think [of himself] more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith." ( Romans 12:3 )

Is this where you ( perhaps ) get the idea that all men have the faith to believe on Christ, but they just have to exercise it? I don't know why you see that, as Paul is speaking to believers here, and the context is every man among them...not every man in the world.

I'm sorry if you see it differently.



May His grace be upon you.





* Edited to reflect later comments*

 

[Dave G]

Incredible. "He ran to Christ, kneeled before Him, and saluted Him with language intended for the divine. Christ loved him and did not dispute his claim of doing no ill towards his neighbor", and you write him off as an unbeliever.

In what passage do you see him running to Christ, kneeling before Him, and saluting Him with language intended for the divine?

Here?

" And a certain ruler asked him, saying, Good Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?
19 And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? none [is] good, save one, [that is], God. " ( Luke 18:18-19 )

Here?

" And when he was gone forth into the way, there came one running, and kneeled to him, and asked him, Good Master, what shall I do that I may inherit eternal life?
18 And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? [there is] none good but one, [that is], God." ( Mark 10:17-18 )

Here?

" And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?
17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments." ( Matthew 19:16-17 )


In none of these passages do I see the rich young ruler calling Him "Lord"...but, "good master", as if addressing a teacher or a rabbi. I see also see Christ prompting him with a question:

" Why callest thou me good? [there is] none good but one, [that is], God."

The Lord is declaring himself to be good, and to me, He is asking the rich young ruler, " Do you realize who you are speaking to?".

IMO, it's a leading question. The reader sees it, but I don't think the ruler did.

 

[Revmitchell]

Is this where you get the idea that all men have the faith to believe on Christ, but they just have to exercise it?

those are not my words but it is your strawman.

 

[Dave G]

those are not my words but it is your strawman.

Then please tell me where you think I was adding to Scripture.

 

[HankD]

Since when did God elect the reprobate to serve him?

Proverbs 16:4 The LORD hath made all things for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil.

Philippians 2:10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;

 

[Dave G]

"in christ" is the key there. You cannot be one of the chosen until you are in Christ. Again that blinding in Romans is not passive.

" according as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
5 having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,
6 to the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved." ( Ephesians 1:4-6 )


Believers were chosen in Christ before the foundation of the world, sir.

That is what is written.

 

[Dave G]

and you write him off as an unbeliever.

With respect, sir, I don't write him off.
I see him rejecting Christ and walking away, because his money was more important to him than following the Lord.

As I see it, this demonstrates his lack of true faith.

Meanwhile, in the same passage, Peter makes this statement:

" Then answered Peter and said unto him, Behold, we have forsaken all, and followed thee; what shall we have therefore?" ( Matthew 19:27 )

To believers, Christ is more important than money. He is their life, not the things that He gives as gifts.


His grace to you sir.

 

[1689Dave]

Again off topic. Nothing in your question about perpetual life as being eternal.

If a person has eternal life, there is never a time when God did not consider them as redeemed by Christ. And their lives all taking shape accordingly in real-time.
“According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:” (Ephesians 1:4)

 

[Revmitchell]

If a person has eternal life, there is never a time when God did not consider them as redeemed by Christ. And their lives all taking shape accordingly in real-time.
“According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:” (Ephesians 1:4)

That verse says "in him" we were chosen to be holy and without blame. It does not say anything about a perpetual existence with no beginning. That moment when we chosen,according to this verse, had a starting time of the choosing. Second, the phrase "should be holy" indicates a starting time of being Holy.

One cannot be "in Him" before being saved or added to the church. Romans 9:25 is a clear indication of those who were not God's people but will be.

No one is considered saved by God until they are "in Him.

 

[1689Dave]

That verse says "in him" we were chosen to be holy and without blame. It does not say anything about a perpetual existence with no beginning. That moment when we chosen,according to this verse, had a starting time of the choosing. Second, the phrase "should be holy" indicates a starting time of being Holy.

One cannot be "in Him" before being saved or added to the church. Romans 9:25 is a clear indication of those who were not God's people but will be.

No one is considered saved by God until they are "in Him.

How can you be in him before you are born unless God places you there?