The will and power of God to save does not matter?
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Rich men entering the Kingdom
- Thread starter Revmitchell
- Start date
That is not what I said "Doesn't matter " to.
Dave G
Well-Known Member
To me, this has little to do with "Calvinism", except for perhaps "Total Depravity"; it has everything to do with man's nature and the spiritual condition of a person's seat of affections...their corrupt "heart". There is nothing in a rich man that does not exist in the average person who is an unbeliever, except for perhaps a fierce love of money:
" And a certain ruler asked him, saying, Good Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?
19 And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? none [is] good, save one, [that is], God.
20 Thou knowest the commandments, Do not commit adultery, Do not kill, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Honour thy father and thy mother.
21 And he said, All these have I kept from my youth up.
22 Now when Jesus heard these things, he said unto him, Yet lackest thou one thing: sell all that thou hast, and distribute unto the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, follow me.
23 And when he heard this, he was very sorrowful: for he was very rich.
24 And when Jesus saw that he was very sorrowful, he said, How hardly shall they that have riches enter into the kingdom of God!
25 For it is easier for a camel to go through a needle’s eye, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.
26 And they that heard [it] said, Who then can be saved?
27 And he said, The things which are impossible with men are possible with God.
28 Then Peter said, Lo, we have left all, and followed thee.
29 And he said unto them, Verily I say unto you, There is no man that hath left house, or parents, or brethren, or wife, or children, for the kingdom of God’s sake,
30 who shall not receive manifold more in this present time, and in the world to come life everlasting." ( Luke 18:18-30 )
Firstly, the rich young ruler asked the wrong question:
"...Good Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life? "
Jesus then answers him according to the Law ( which is the schoolmaster to bring the believer to Christ )...also, remember that Jesus knew the hearts and minds of those around Him:
" Thou knowest the commandments, Do not commit adultery, Do not kill, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Honour thy father and thy mother. "
The rich young ruler answers Him:
" And he said, All these have I kept from my youth up."
Jesus then hits him right at the seat of his affections ( his "heart" )...his love of money:
"Yet lackest thou one thing: sell all that thou hast, and distribute unto the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, follow me. "
So, to summarize, Jesus is answering the rich young ruler with the Law, which is what he was asking Jesus in the context of. He then answers him out of the righteousness of faith by telling him to sell all that he has, give to the poor and follow Him.
The lesson is one of the heart.
The Kingdom of God is inhabited by those who have the righteousness of faith, and who have had their "hearts" changed by God:
" But without faith [it is] impossible to please [him]: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and [that] he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him." ( Hebrews 11:6 )
" And I will give them one heart, and I will put a new spirit within you; and I will take the stony heart out of their flesh, and will give them an heart of flesh:" ( Ezekiel 11:19 )
So, it really isn't difficult, for those who have faith...
Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Job, David, Solomon, Joseph of Arimathea, and many other rich men are in the Kingdom of God. But Heaven is not primarily made up of rich men:
" Hearken, my beloved brethren, Hath not God chosen the poor of this world rich in faith, and heirs of the kingdom which he hath promised to them that love him?" ( James 2:5 )
It is also made up of those who make themselves poor in this life, by giving to others in need:
" Let him that stole steal no more: but rather let him labour, working with [his] hands the thing which is good, that he may have to give to him that needeth." ( Ephesians 4:28 )
Faith that believes He will provide for them, so they do not have to worry about such things ( Matthew 6:24-34 ).
More principles of the spiritual heart:
" Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any [man] will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.
25 For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it." ( Matthew 16:24-25 )
" So likewise, whosoever he be of you that forsaketh not all that he hath, he cannot be my disciple." ( Luke 14:33 )
"I have shewed you all things, how that so labouring ye ought to support the weak, and to remember the words of the Lord Jesus, how he said, It is more blessed to give than to receive." ( Acts 20:35 )
" Lay not up for yourselves treasures upon earth, where moth and rust doth corrupt, and where thieves break through and steal: 20 but lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust doth corrupt, and where thieves do not break through nor steal:
21 for where your treasure is, there will your heart be also." ( Matthew 6:19-21 )
Catholic monks in the Middle Ages took these principles literally, but it is a spiritual commandment.
A believer can be rich, but it doesn't have his or her heart...Jesus does, and they will be willing to give whatever to whomever is in need.
Wicked, unregenerate men don't want to part with their money...but even rich believers will give, because they know that their Father in Heaven gave it to them, and that their brothers and sisters will benefit by it:
" But whoso hath this world's good, and seeth his brother have need, and shutteth up his bowels [of compassion] from him, how dwelleth the love of God in him?" ( 1 John 3:17 )
Secondly, the key to the passage is in verse 27, which you didn't post:
"And he said, The things which are impossible with men are possible with God."
It is impossible for a rich unbeliever , who does not have faith, to enter into the Kingdom of God, because their heart is wrapped up in their money. It IS possible for a rich believer, who does have faith, to enter into the Kingdom of God, because their heart is wrapped up in their Saviour, and who gives to lay up treasure in Heaven.
In my opinion, the question should be re-phrased to ask something like this:
" If "Calvinism" is true, what stands in the way of a rich man entering into the Kingdom of God? "
Answer:
God.
Then 1689Dave's first post ( 1 Corinthians 1:26-29 ) would come into play, as I see it.
May He bless you greatly, sir.
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If one is elect (according to the false Calvinist definition of it) and rich there should be no difficulty.
1689Dave
Well-Known Member
Many drunks are elect too but the bottle has a grip on them, so they say.
You are only making my point. rich, drunk or otherwise. Jesus said these influences in their lives makes it more difficult to bring them to salvation. If the cal definition of election is true then it cannot be true, what Jesus said, or God finds it difficult to bring them to salvation.
1689Dave
Well-Known Member
Think of how hard is is for a womanizer to enter the kingdom of God. Yet scripture mentions them among God's elect.
Your question assumes your own definition of "elect" which of course I reject. Since I reject your definition your sentence makes no sense. The fact that it is hard for a rich man, a drunk, or a womanizer to come to Christ means there is a deliberate use of reason and inner struggle. They are actually considering two different options. There is nothing mentioned about either being conditionally elect or not being conditionally elect. What is mentioned is the love of those things which is greater than the love of God. Conditional election is neither mentioned nor implied.
1689Dave
Well-Known Member
1588. ἐκλεκτός ĕklĕktŏs, ek-lek-tos´.; from 1586; select; by impl. favorite:—chosen, elect.
Strong, J. (2009). A Concise Dictionary of the Words in the Greek Testament and The Hebrew Bible (Vol. 1, p. 26).
That does not clear it up.
Incredible. "He ran to Christ, kneeled before Him, and saluted Him with language intended for the divine. Christ loved him and did not dispute his claim of doing no ill towards his neighbor", and you write him off as an unbeliever.
1689Dave
Well-Known Member
Here's both sides of the issue:“So in the same way at the present time there is a remnant chosen by grace. And if it is by grace, it is no longer by works, otherwise grace would no longer be grace. What then? Israel failed to obtain what it was diligently seeking, but the elect obtained it. The rest were hardened, as it is written, “God gave them a spirit of stupor, eyes that would not see and ears that would not hear, to this very day.”” (Romans 11:5–8)
Why does a dead man (as cals define dead) have to be blinded by God?
Difficult - humanly speaking that is, with God of course it is not a difficulty.
The Countess of Huntingdon used to say that she had been saved by the letter 'M.' If God had chosen 'not any of noble birth' instead of 'not many of noble birth' she would not have been saved.
Another thought: 'Blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.'
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1689Dave
Well-Known Member
When did the blinding happen that they were born blind?
He called Him 'Good teacher.' People who called the Lord Jesus, "teacher" or "Rabbi" usually got a dusty answer because they didn't know who He is. Those who call Him "Lord" or "Son of David" (i.e. Messiah) get a much better response (e.g. Blind Bartimaeus, Syro-Phoenician woman).
However, I agree with Pink that the RYR was eventually saved.
Is that what you really think? That the blinding happened at birth? Either way that is not a passive action.