Rick Warren & Muslims???

[glfredrick]

The article I read at http://www.christianpost.com/news/pastors-answer-does-rick-warren-endorse-islam-52833/ is dated Tuesday, Feb 28, 2012

Good article and consistent with what I know of Warren from dealings personal and via his ministries.

Warren is the consumate MISSIOLOGIST and that is the most misunderstood aspect of his ministry.

What he does would be lauded if done in a foreign land, but do it here in the United States and it is labeled as heresy.

 

[gb93433]

Let's do a sample of what it might look like at a King's Way service. When the teacher/leader asks for people to open God's word, what will they open? The koran or the bible. I know this probably won't happen because seekers don't carry bibles to church and thus seeker Muslim's probably don't carry their korans either.

Can you think of a time when Jesus asked someone to turn in their Bible? During the time of Jesus' ministry most likely about 2% could read. So what did Jesus do to spread the gospel?

 

[webdog]

I think Warren's own words from TODAY'S quote apply here ""Only a fool believes all he hears" Proverbs 14:15"

 

[SolaSaint]

I watched many believers have to walk away from a solid baptist church about 8 years ago because of the PD programs. It was very difficult and I still bump into many of them who still are hurt from it. I read much of Warren's literature on this and he promoted getting ride of anyone who didn't agree with the PD stuff. People were told to get on board or leave, myself included. I left and most all others did.

If this is how to do church (push out Christians and invite in Muslim's(without telling them the truth)) then count me out.

 

[gb93433]

Good article and consistent with what I know of Warren from dealings personal and via his ministries.

Warren is the consumate MISSIOLOGIST and that is the most misunderstood aspect of his ministry.

What he does would be lauded if done in a foreign land, but do it here in the United States and it is labeled as heresy.

I attended his conference at Saddleback and it helped me a lot. I am not like him, but walked away with several things I needed to implement in my life to win people to Jesus and be a better pastor. When I spoke to him personally he was like a magnet and I felt as though we were the only people who existed while we were talking. He seems to have an incredible ability to focus and listen, and be genuinely interested in the person he is talking to. It is a conversation I will never forget. He does not have any of the chruch services on TV or the radio because he wants Saddleback to be a local church service and not be a celebrity.

 

[annsni]

I watched many believers have to walk away from a solid baptist church about 8 years ago because of the PD programs. It was very difficult and I still bump into many of them who still are hurt from it. I read much of Warren's literature on this and he promoted getting ride of anyone who didn't agree with the PD stuff. People were told to get on board or leave, myself included. I left and most all others did.

Can you show me where this is said?

I've seen many churches take something much too far. It's not the person's fault who wrote it but the church who took something out of the context of the original purpose. We did the PD stuff twice and even my husband taught the class. It was helpful - it certainly was not at all cultic like you are making it sound like.

 

[webdog]

I watched many believers have to walk away from a solid baptist church about 8 years ago because of the PD programs. It was very difficult and I still bump into many of them who still are hurt from it. I read much of Warren's literature on this and he promoted getting ride of anyone who didn't agree with the PD stuff. People were told to get on board or leave, myself included. I left and most all others did.

If this is how to do church (push out Christians and invite in Muslim's(without telling them the truth)) then count me out.

I see this thread is personal, and really doesn't have anything to do with the latest "chrislam" accusation, does it?

As with any other church model, I eat the cherry and spit out the seeds. Nobody is going to agree 100% on any model...but to slander a man God is using to reach many is reprehensible.

 

[SolaSaint]

Can you think of a time when Jesus asked someone to turn in their Bible? During the time of Jesus' ministry most likely about 2% could read. So what did Jesus do to spread the gospel?

Ah, Jesus was the walking Bible, He spoke it often. He said "It is written" numerous times; that was in a way turning to the Bible. Jesus spread the gospel by sending out His disciples, not by joining in with pagan worshippers to worship their god and make them feel comfortable doing it.

 

[SolaSaint]

Can you show me where this is said?

I've seen many churches take something much too far. It's not the person's fault who wrote it but the church who took something out of the context of the original purpose. We did the PD stuff twice and even my husband taught the class. It was helpful - it certainly was not at all cultic like you are making it sound like.

Ann,

It was 7 or 8 years ago, but I will look it up. I found it on his Pastor.com site. He was referring to anyone who was against his PD 40 program to grow a church. He said some people will be against it and said they may have to die or to ask them to leave. Not sure if it is still there. I did read it and was amazed he waould say it. Warren isn't all you think he is.

 

[SolaSaint]

I see this thread is personal, and really doesn't have anything to do with the latest "chrislam" accusation, does it?

As with any other church model, I eat the cherry and spit out the seeds. Nobody is going to agree 100% on any model...but to slander a man God is using to reach many is reprehensible.

You may look at it as slander, I see it as warning against false doctrines. Sorry you feel the way you do. God bless!

 

[SolaSaint]

I'm done commenting on this for I see it has ruffled a lot of feathers. I truly am not taking it personal as some believe. I just warn others when I see false teaching. Obviously there are a lot of Rick Warren followers on here and I'll just pray for you and me to be sold out to truth only. God bless.:thumbsup:

 

[mandym]

Read the posts. Most people seem to have no idea that Islam recognizes Jesus as the messiah and that Jesus is mentioned more often in the Koran than Mohammad.

It is you who does not know. You are following the propaganda. They do not follow Jesus as the Messiah. That is absurd and your source is weak.

 

[gb93433]

I watched many believers have to walk away from a solid baptist church about 8 years ago because of the PD programs. It was very difficult and I still bump into many of them who still are hurt from it. I read much of Warren's literature on this and he promoted getting ride of anyone who didn't agree with the PD stuff. People were told to get on board or leave, myself included. I left and most all others did.

I have seen the same thing too. I have seen churches where it was obvious that the pastor was not filled with the Holy Spirit but filled with a methodology and success as his aim. If anyone has read their Bible they would know that Jesus was not always "successful" in the eyes of many today but their ignorance blinds them. An example is the instruction He gave His disciples when sent them out. Another was when he was run out of the synagogue. While they would probably not admit to it, those people are nothing more than health wealth gospel followers. They expect success from a particular methodology and from imitating someone else who is in a completely different area. (Whatever happened to imitating the Koreans and Africans? Whatever happened to imitating Jesus? I get the impression that some people are so gullible to follow a methodology and not the Lord Himself simply because they have failed to read their Bible. Years ago I was pastorinmg a church and one of the leaders was on the state church growth board. He was so focused on growth and living in fantasy land that he did not win or disciple one person during that time. He could not blame that on me because he knew where I stood because we were not in the big city where he got his ideas.

I also believe that God allows failures to teach us who is the real leader. If God blessed a methodology man he would be proud. We have seen it so many times when a good preacher is humiliated because of his pride. He may be exalted by his denomination or those around him and gets puffed up while he fails to recognize the One who put him there and focuses on how great He is rather than how great God is. It becomes and egocentric charade and the man feels like he is absolutely necessary. Were the prophets successful considering the fact that the majority were executed?

When I heard Rick Warren speak at the conference I attended he mentioned about two things among many others. He talked about a church he pastored and did not do all that well because it was a not a very good fit. He could not identify with a large number of the people. He also said that PDC may not work for you.

Sometimes I wonder how stupid some can be. But I guess I should not be surprised when they do not read and study their Bible. I knew a man that was so focused on PDC as the answer that I know he spent very little times reading and studying his Bible and so much time reading church growth materials. The church nearly died and became so in debt that they had to sell the property and buildings. Before that the church had been paid for. The interesting things is that another church plant bought the building and ministry is thriving in that same building.

God works through people and give them what they need if they seek Him.

A few days ago I was in a men's meeting and of the 20 who were there I think there were 17 who were in the construction business. The city is not even close to being made up of that kind of percentage of men in construction. The pastor had started out in construction and had his own construction business. He draws men who will stand up and be counted. He is a man's man.

In the conference I attended Rick Warren stated that he came to the conclusion that you will draw who you are not who you are trying to be. Does that have to do with PDC? Isn't it more about how God has made you?

The conclusion I have come to is when I hear people say they used PDC as a methodology or any other methodology and it failed I find someone who knows little about his Bible and the God who is.

 

[gb93433]

Ah, Jesus was the walking Bible, He spoke it often. He said "It is written" numerous times; that was in a way turning to the Bible. Jesus spread the gospel by sending out His disciples, not by joining in with pagan worshippers to worship their god and make them feel comfortable doing it.

He also said, "It has been said." They did not have a Bible. Scrolls would have been very expensive. People today who cannot read are doing ministry in areas where literacy is quite low.

 

[Don]

Read the posts. Most people seem to have no idea that Islam recognizes Jesus as the messiah and that Jesus is mentioned more often in the Koran than Mohammad.

Not sure what you're trying to prove here, Crab. Islam recognizes Jesus as a messenger of God, not God in the flesh.

If you're a Christian, you believe Jesus was God in the flesh. Islam denies this. So any claim about what islam thinks about Jesus falls on that point, and pretty much becomes irrelevant.

Now, on the other side of the coin: Although the Quran doesn't mention Mohammed as much as it mentions Jesus, what does islam say about Mohammed as opposed to Jesus?

 

[Crabtownboy]

Not sure what you're trying to prove here, Crab. Islam recognizes Jesus as a messenger of God, not God in the flesh.

If you're a Christian, you believe Jesus was God in the flesh. Islam denies this. So any claim about what islam thinks about Jesus falls on that point, and pretty much becomes irrelevant.

You are right. Moslems do not believe that Jesus was God. They do not believe in the Trinity. In fact their criticism of Christianity here is that we believe in three gods where as they say there is only one God. Christians would agree there is only one God, but that he has been manifest to us in three ways. Obviously they will not accept the statement that, "the trinity is a mystery."

Now, on the other side of the coin: Although the Quran doesn't mention Mohammed as much as it mentions Jesus, what does islam say about Mohammed as opposed to Jesus?

Islam considers Jesus as one of the great prophets alongside Noah, Abraham, Moses and Muhammad. They also believe Jesus was the messiah. They believe Mary was a virgin. They believe in the miracles of Jesus. They do not believe that Christ was crucified, but that he appeared to have been. My understanding is they make no attempt to say who was really crucified. They do believe Jesus took the sins of the world on himself. They do believe in the return of Christ but their take is different on his return. [I need to do more research on this.] They believe that Jesus' message was for only the "lost sheep of Israel," whereas Mohammad's message was for all mankind.

There is probably much more about what Islam says about Mohammad versus Jesus and perhaps there a someone more knowledgable on the BB than I who can enlighten us.

 

[gb93433]

Now we believe. Jesus says – Do you? The time is coming when you will leave Me alone. Many a Christian worker has left Jesus Christ alone and gone into work from a sense of duty, or from a sense of need arising out of his own particular discernment. The reason for this is the absence of the resurrection life of Jesus. The soul has got out of intimate contact with God by leaning to its own religious understanding. There is no sin in it, and no punishment attached to it; but when the soul realizes how he has hindered his understanding of Jesus Christ, and produced for himself perplexities and sorrows and difficulties, it is with shame and contrition he has to come back.

Source: http://utmost.org/classic/do-ye-now-believe-classic/

 

[thomas15]

There is probably much more about what Islam says about Mohammad versus Jesus and perhaps there a someone more knowledgable on the BB than I who can enlighten us.

What exactly is the purpose of your post? Are you admitting that you don't know what you are talking about?

 

[DaChaser1]

You have been supplied a direct quote from Warren...yet maintain he's silent?

IF he stated and holds to islam Allah same as the christian god though...

isn't that heretical by itself?

 

[DaChaser1]

Good article and consistent with what I know of Warren from dealings personal and via his ministries.

Warren is the consumate MISSIOLOGIST and that is the most misunderstood aspect of his ministry.

What he does would be lauded if done in a foreign land, but do it here in the United States and it is labeled as heresy.

again, islam is a FAK:SE stanic inspired religion, so ONLY way to deal with that is to preach/teach jesus as messiah/Son of God, NOT to give in to PC with them!