Roman Catholic...Christian or Cult?

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Why? Because it is true? It happened? It is horrific? It is hard to read? It is hard to accept and still be a Catholic? Why does it nullify anything I have said? Who would want to be a member of a church that carries out such atrocities in the name of Christ?
--a member of a church that actually thinks they are making converts through torture? Is this really true? You agree to this?

Lets get this clear......I AM NOT A CATHOLIC. Your implying it.

 

[DHK]

I challenge you to go to a catholic catachesis class or RCIA and see what they have to say. Or talk with a knowledgeable priest. I think you'll be suprised.

I have been there for 20 years and never heard that message once.
I have debated their apologists. I have read their Catechism.
I know what they say about salvation, and it has nothing to with a relationship with Jesus Christ. I live in a predominately Catholic nation. Catholics don't have a clue about what it means to have a relationship with Jesus Christ. If it was taught they would know about it. But it isn't taught. They have never heard it, nor have they heard about it. I talk to them on a regular basis. I go door-to-door doing evangelistic work. Most people I encounter are Catholics. I think I know what I am talking about.

 

[DHK]

Lets get this clear......I AM NOT A CATHOLIC. Your implying it.

Did you not say something about being an ex-Catholic, or uphold those relatives that are Catholics, and defend them for being in the Catholic faith. Did you not say that you benefited from those that were in the RCC?

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

I have been there for 20 years and never heard that message once.
I have debated their apologists. I have read their Catechism.
I know what they say about salvation, and it has nothing to with a relationship with Jesus Christ. I live in a predominately Catholic nation. Catholics don't have a clue about what it means to have a relationship with Jesus Christ. If it was taught they would know about it. But it isn't taught. They have never heard it, nor have they heard about it. I talk to them on a regular basis. I go door-to-door doing evangelistic work. Most people I encounter are Catholics. I think I know what I am talking about.

The Catholic Church down the road from me has bible study each week. I wonder what they teach there, if its different from my own each Saturday morning. Granted they dont use King James....

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Did you not say something about being an ex-Catholic, or uphold those relatives that are Catholics, and defend them for being in the Catholic faith. Did you not say that you benefited from those that were in the RCC?

Yes I did.....so what

 

[DHK]

The Catholic Church down the road from me has bible study each week. I wonder what they teach there, if its different from my own each Saturday morning. Granted they dont use King James....

I can tell you what they teach. Their message teaches how to go to hell the quick way.

 

[annsni]

OK, I dont know anyone like that

The Catholics you know do not pray to the saints or to Mary?

 

[DHK]

Yes I did.....so what

So you defend those in an organization which condones conversion by the sword? Would you give this information to them and tell them to escape this apostate and wicked organization that sends people to hell as quickly as possible.

 

[annsni]

Mount of Transfiguration?

Can you explain? Jesus was talking to Moses and Elijah. He was not praying to them, nor do we see Him asking them to interceed or anything. We also do not see that they even acknowledged those who were there who were alive on earth. This is a very poor example.

 

[Thinkingstuff]

Can you explain? Jesus was talking to Moses and Elijah. He was not praying to them, nor do we see Him asking them to interceed or anything. We also do not see that they even acknowledged those who were there who were alive on earth. This is a very poor example.

Thats what praying is. Its old english for talking. You can talk to God or you can talk to me. Moses was dead or was he? Either way Jesus was preping for his suffering and crucifixion. Its likely they were discussing this. Thought he scriptures haven't told us exactly what they said to each other however it is conspicuous that its just prior to his last visit to jerusalem and He had just told his disciples that he must suffer. Yet Jesus was communion with both these men who've passed on to the next life.

Now the Catholic argument would say that a believer is not truely dead but alive in Christ as Moses and Elijah were on the Mount of Transfiguration. We see in revelation that the martyrs know whats happening on earth and speak to God about it. And complain that justice has not yet been carried out. In any way you look at it Jesus was speaking with a person who had died on that mountain.

 

[Thinkingstuff]

So you defend those in an organization which condones conversion by the sword? Would you give this information to them and tell them to escape this apostate and wicked organization that sends people to hell as quickly as possible.

Baptist converted some american natives by the end of a gun barrel. What's the difference? Other baptist kept slaves and used the scripture to support their societal view that is now widely accepted as wrong. What's the difference?

 

[Alive in Christ]

Earth wind and fire...

Originally Posted by annsni

Those who pray to Mary or the saints.

You then said...

OK, I dont know anyone like that

Millions of Catholics do that routinely.

Praying to the dead.

And dont anyone bother with that silly pathetic little response "who says they are dead"

They have experienced their physical, earthly death, God calles them "dead" so we can to.

We are forbidden to pray the dead. Millions of Catholics do with their false churches approval.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

So you defend those in an organization which condones conversion by the sword? NO

Would you give this information to them and tell them to escape this apostate and wicked organization that sends people to hell as quickly as possible. Yes

You are quoting past history not today. Shall I remind you ..... no let me be brief. Calvin & Cromwell do you condone their violence or was that OK with you? But wait, your a Baptist so Reformation really should not have a place in your particular history.....Right.

I will just bet your a real charmer when it comes to converting the Papist. You pull directly to the Crusades & call them vile bloody murderers dont you. Your the type that wins friends & influences people with that delivery. I need to have my head examined to even have dialog with you I'm thinking.

I get it, in your eyes we are all just stinking murderous papists as your father was because he also was obstinate & refused your request to convert. I can see it now, you hounding him on his death bed. Did you beg & did you plead? How did you feel when he gave up the ghost without his salvation being secured. Pretty bad I will bet, because he is in hell with all the rest of the stinking Papists.

So you sit here & you make it a point of throwing out the life line, you who lives in a country full of those stinking papists. Must make your Christian Skin crall right? And we, we reprobates, we phony Christians, worthless in your superior saved eyes wallow in our sin ripe & ready for the pit of hell we so justly deserve (I can see your sneer).

You know what, If heaven is full of your type, I wouldn't want to be there.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Earth wind and fire...

Originally Posted by annsni


You then said...



Millions of Catholics do that routinely.

Praying to the dead.

And dont anyone bother with that silly pathetic little response "who says they are dead"

They have experienced their physical, earthly death, God calles them "dead" so we can to.

We are forbidden to pray the dead. Millions of Catholics do with their false churches approval.

Out of curiosity, why do you quote Calvin?

 

[Alive in Christ]

What are you talking about?

Those are my thoughts.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Your Signature

 

[annsni]

Thats what praying is. Its old english for talking. You can talk to God or you can talk to me. Moses was dead or was he? Either way Jesus was preping for his suffering and crucifixion. Its likely they were discussing this. Thought he scriptures haven't told us exactly what they said to each other however it is conspicuous that its just prior to his last visit to jerusalem and He had just told his disciples that he must suffer. Yet Jesus was communion with both these men who've passed on to the next life.

Now the Catholic argument would say that a believer is not truely dead but alive in Christ as Moses and Elijah were on the Mount of Transfiguration. We see in revelation that the martyrs know whats happening on earth and speak to God about it. And complain that justice has not yet been carried out. In any way you look at it Jesus was speaking with a person who had died on that mountain.

Did anyone on earth talk to Moses or Elijah. Remember that Jesus was transifigured. He was not earthly at that moment. You cannot compare the two.

As for the martyrs in Revelation, how do we know that they know what is happening on earth because they watch and communicate with those on earth? They are under the altar, are they not? I do think when justice is carried out, heaven will know not because they have watched it but because they will know from God Himself.

 

[Alive in Christ]

Oh.

I think you mean my signature. Its promoting justification through faith alone. Calvin just happened to be in it.

I'm not a Calvinist.

(He was certainly correct about justification through faith alone, though!) :thumbs:

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

And again I do not know anyone that prays to the dead....are we clear on that?

 

[Dr. Walter]

Thats what praying is. Its old english for talking. You can talk to God or you can talk to me. Moses was dead or was he? Either way Jesus was preping for his suffering and crucifixion. Its likely they were discussing this. Thought he scriptures haven't told us exactly what they said to each other however it is conspicuous that its just prior to his last visit to jerusalem and He had just told his disciples that he must suffer. Yet Jesus was communion with both these men who've passed on to the next life.

Now the Catholic argument would say that a believer is not truely dead but alive in Christ as Moses and Elijah were on the Mount of Transfiguration. We see in revelation that the martyrs know whats happening on earth and speak to God about it. And complain that justice has not yet been carried out. In any way you look at it Jesus was speaking with a person who had died on that mountain.

Elijah and Moses were not attempting to intercede in behalf of Jesus to the Father. Neither was Jesus attempting to go through Elijah or Moses to reach the Father.

Jesus is our example and we find nowhere he either teaches by precept or example to pray to the departed as a means (thus a mediator) between himself and the Father or between living saints and Himself or the Father.

In regard to prayer, the bible says we have direct access to God (Heb. 10:19-20) and because of the shed blood of Christ we can come "boldly" or freely to God. The Bible explicitly says there is but ONE MEDIATOR between God and man and that is Jesus Christ, not Mary, not the Church, not the preists, not departed saints, not statues, pictures, or candles. These are all of pagan origin that have no place in the life of true Christians.

We do not find Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, Stephen, Paul, Peter, Jude, or any other New Testament writer or saint praying to such, or through such nor do we find any precepts to do so.

"To the law and to the testimony if they speak not according to this word it is because there is no light in them."