Roman Catholicism , cult or not?

Eliyahu · Feb 27, 2006

Such word of Hyperdulia doesn't make sense except to the goddess worshippers:

Luke 11:27

And it came to pass, as he spake these things, a certain woman of the company lifted up her voice, and said unto him, Blessed is the womb that bare thee, and the paps which thou hast sucked. 28 But he said, Yea rather, blessed are they that hear the word of God, and keep it.

Nobody should call the notification by Gabriel as Hyperdulia unless he or she searches the cluse for the goddess worshipp.
Mary was a corruptible being and dead!

DHK · Feb 27, 2006

Originally posted by Matt Black:
The point about Gabriel is not that he is worshipped - he is not - but that he offered hyperdulia to Mary in the Annunciation narrative according to Luke. So was he a blasphemer or not...and if he is are you going to tell him or shall I...?!

Prove your point. Gabriel neither worshiped nor was worshiped. The only person that was worshiped in any of these accounts was God, and him alone. If you state such you must offer up evidence for such an untruth.
DHK

Matt Black · Feb 27, 2006

Originally posted by DHK:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Matt Black:
Ah, so you're adding works to faith then - the very thing you accuse the Catholics of doing! How very ironic!

You may think I went on a rabbit trail here and thus got confused. You started speaking of love, and so I answered what Biblical love was, but not in relation to salvation. Notice in the quotes that I gave Jesus was instructing his disciples. They were already saved, already disciples, followers of Him. This had nothing to do with salvation. I was pointing out to you the definition of love--obedience to Christ. This was not in relation to salvation. Sorry if you took it that way. It is impossible for an unsaved man to have love for Christ. The unsaved man looks for salvation in Christ like a thief looks for a policeman. Salvation is a work of God. The Holy Spirit draws a man to Christ. "There is none righteous no not one. They are all gone out of the way. They are together become unprfitable. There is none that doeth good, no, not one." (Rom.3:10-12)[/QUOTE]And there you are on all fours with the Catholic Church. I was talking of those who were saved likewise.

<blockquote>quote:<hr /> Agreed, the term Catholic Church is not mentioned in the Bible, but it is mentioned by St Ignatius, bishop of Antioch, who was appointed by and discipled by St John. I think you'll find that he is thus eminently more qualified to pronounce on this issue than you or I

I don't find his name in the Bible. The Bible is my only authority.[/QUOTE]As interpreted by whom, exactly?

<blockquote>quote:<hr />You are selective in your quoting. Did not the Lord Himself say "Whoever believes and is baptised will be saved" (Mark 16:16, italics mine)?

I believe you are the one being selective here.
He also says in the same verse:

"but he that believeth not shall be damned."
--There is no mention of "and not be baptized" there.
You select one verse (for which there is an explanation) out of hundreds of verses which state that a man is saved by faith alone. You cannot build a doctrine around one verse. The totality of Scripture confirms that a man is saved by faith alone.
DHK [/QUOTE]That is your interpretation and you are welcome to it. We are not talking about one verse here: I mentioned Acts 2:38-39 and I could have mentioned I Peter 3:21 as another such verse; we are also talking about the totality of Scripture as faithfully interpreted by Jesus' Apostles - as appointed and commanded by Him - and their successors throughout the centuries.

Matt Black · Feb 27, 2006

Originally posted by DHK:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Matt Black:
The point about Gabriel is not that he is worshipped - he is not - but that he offered hyperdulia to Mary in the Annunciation narrative according to Luke. So was he a blasphemer or not...and if he is are you going to tell him or shall I...?!

Prove your point. Gabriel neither worshiped nor was worshiped. The only person that was worshiped in any of these accounts was God, and him alone. If you state such you must offer up evidence for such an untruth.
DHK [/QUOTE]Hyperdulia as follows: "Hail Mary full of grace the Lord is with you. Blessed are you amongst women and blessed is the fruit of your womb, Jesus.

DHK · Feb 27, 2006

Originally posted by Matt Black:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by DHK:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Matt Black:
The point about Gabriel is not that he is worshipped - he is not - but that he offered hyperdulia to Mary in the Annunciation narrative according to Luke. So was he a blasphemer or not...and if he is are you going to tell him or shall I...?!

Prove your point. Gabriel neither worshiped nor was worshiped. The only person that was worshiped in any of these accounts was God, and him alone. If you state such you must offer up evidence for such an untruth.
DHK [/QUOTE]Hyperdulia as follows: "Hail Mary full of grace the Lord is with you. Blessed are you amongst women and blessed is the fruit of your womb, Jesus. [/QUOTE]You are quoting from a Catholic prayer, "The Hail Mary," not the Scripture. You don't think I know the difference? I gave you the Scriptture references to look. That is not what Gabriel said. Look the Scripture up and quote the Scripture and show me any prayer that Gabriel said. Gabriel never gave any worship to Mary, only a greeting with a message.
DHK

JackRUS · Feb 27, 2006

Originally posted by D28guy:
JackRUS,

Just curious.

Does your username have anything to do with Jack Russell Terriers?

Mike

I have been asked that before, and the answer is no. I hope that my posting style doesn't lend one towards that conclusion though. (But it wouldn't be the first time

)

Actually when I first started this on the old Tycos religion board about six years ago I didn't want to take myself too seriously. So I parterned my handle after ToysRUS.

(Don't tell anyone

)

1 Cor. 1:31

JackRUS · Feb 28, 2006

Matt wrote:

Originally posted by Matt Black:
The point about Gabriel is not that he is worshipped - he is not - but that he offered hyperdulia to Mary in the Annunciation narrative according to Luke.

The Catholic term hypedulia is just a euphemism for worship, and God is not fooled. Sadly many peole are though.

Dulia mean veneration, but one can quess where this leads when you put the term 'hyper' in front of it.

John Calvin writes that "(t)he distinction of what is called dulia and latria (worship) was invented for the very purpose of permitting divine honours to be paid to angels and dead men with apparent impunity."

http://www.catholicconcerns.com/MaryWorship.html

http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/False%20Religions/Roman%20Catholicism/mary_worship_a_study.htm

standingfirminChrist · Feb 28, 2006

The angel did not offer worship to Mary. He greeted her, and told her she was a blessed woman. Blessed in the Greek means happy. Mary is not to be worshipped.

FriendofSpurgeon · Feb 28, 2006

Just wondering ... how many people on the board - many seemingly having so much authority on what "they" believe - have ever actually attended a service at a Catholic church?

If so, did you or did you not hear the Gospel? Were the Scriptures read? Were the ancient verities proclaimed? Just wondering ...

DHK · Feb 28, 2006

Originally posted by FriendofSpurgeon:
Just wondering ... how many people on the board - many seemingly having so much authority on what "they" believe - have ever actually attended a service at a Catholic church?

If so, did you or did you not hear the Gospel? Were the Scriptures read? Were the ancient verities proclaimed? Just wondering ...

There are many former Catholics such as D28Guy and myself on this board.
I was a Catholic for 20 years, a devout Catholic.
And no I never heard a clear presentation of the gospel, though there were "readings" of the Scriptures. But the natural man receives not the things of the Spirit of God. The Catholic Church is mostly liturgy, dead formalism. When I was a Catholic most people got very little out of it, for most of it was said in Latin.
DHK

Melanie · Feb 28, 2006

Originally posted by DHK:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by FriendofSpurgeon:
Just wondering ... how many people on the board - many seemingly having so much authority on what "they" believe - have ever actually attended a service at a Catholic church?

If so, did you or did you not hear the Gospel? Were the Scriptures read? Were the ancient verities proclaimed? Just wondering ...

There are many former Catholics such as D28Guy and myself on this board.
I was a Catholic for 20 years, a devout Catholic.
And no I never heard a clear presentation of the gospel, though there were "readings" of the Scriptures. But the natural man receives not the things of the Spirit of God. The Catholic Church is mostly liturgy, dead formalism. When I was a Catholic most people got very little out of it, for most of it was said in Latin.

DHK [/QUOTE]...and of course since the novelties of vatican 2 you can now attend a catholic church and think you were in a protestant church....such serious deviation is now well regarded by the RCC....but there are those who have returned to the Tridentine Mass (in Latin) and appreciate the beauty of the Mass and its attendant liturgy. Epistle and Gospel are read in Latin and then in English prior to the sermon on Sunday...so there you go

DHK · Feb 28, 2006

Originally posted by Briony-Gloriana:
..and of course since the novelties of vatican 2 you can now attend a catholic church and think you were in a protestant church....such serious deviation is now well regarded by the RCC....but there are those who have returned to the Tridentine Mass (in Latin) and appreciate the beauty of the Mass and its attendant liturgy. Epistle and Gospel are read in Latin and then in English prior to the sermon on Sunday...so there you go

Vatican II did nothing but put on a little bit of make-up: pure cosmetics. No doctrinal changes were made in the RCC. They still hold to the same damnable doctrines, the same doctrines that will condemn a person to Hell. You cannot believe in the doctrines of the RCC and believe in the Biblical way of salvation at the same time. The two are diametrically opposed to each other.
DHK

D28guy · Feb 28, 2006

JackRUS,

I asked...

"Does your username have anything to do with Jack Russell Terriers?"

You...

"I have been asked that before, and the answer is no. I hope that my posting style doesn't lend one towards that conclusion though. (But it wouldn't be the first time

)

No, its not your posting style at all, I'm just a lifelong dog lover, but here in my 40's I am a 1st time owner of a Jack Russell terrier.

And I've never loved a dog like this amazing little amimal.

"Actually when I first started this on the old Tycos religion board about six years ago I didn't want to take myself too seriously. So I parterned my handle after ToysRUS.

(Don't tell anyone )

No no...dont worry. This is all just between you an me.

)

God bless,

Mike

D28guy · Feb 28, 2006

Friend of Spurgion...

"Just wondering ... how many people on the board - many seemingly having so much authority on what "they" believe - have ever actually attended a service at a Catholic church?"

I have attended hundreds of them, having been raised Catholic.

"If so, did you or did you not hear the Gospel?"

Never.

Not one single time.

When christians...actual born of the Spirit people...1st witnessed to me in my early 20's I was stunned at the "good news" of the gospel.

I had never heard it before.

I had been told a convoluted mess of "works theology", religious nonsense and "christianised" paganism, some "hope so think so maybe so" fairy tales, and the opportunity to *maybe* go to heaven(if I was super duper good and "holy" all the time)...but more than likely go to the "sort of hell" place called purgatory....to suffer for a while..(2 weeks? 20 years? 5000 years? Who knows?)...until I would then be good enough for heaven.

"Were the Scriptures read?"

Yes.

"Were the ancient verities proclaimed?"

I have no idea what "ancient verities" are. I concern myself with the scriptures.

"Just wondering ..."

I hope my post helps.

Grace and peace,

Mike

D28guy · Feb 28, 2006

Matt,

I wish I could get you to see how utterly ridiculous this "Latria", "Dulia", "Hyper-Dulia" nonsense is. Its utterly absurd.

Matt, when Moses came down from the mountain and saw Gods people commiting idolatry with the golden calf, did he rush down there and breathlessly ask them...

"Please tell me...WHAT WORD ARE YOU USING for what you are doing? What are you choosing to call it???!!!"

Of course not.

He observered what was going on and he knew what it was.

If they had quickly picked some other word for it to try and pull the wool over his eyes it wouldnt have fooled him.

And these little word games do not fool us, and they dont fool God.

Its no different than the little boy who is caught stealing a little model car from the drug store. When he is caught what does every little boy say?

"Oh...I didnt steal it...I was just BORROWING it!"

That little word game doesnt work, and neither does the Catholic Churchs little word games.

We see with our own eyes how the sinner saved by grace Mary is elevated, is "high and lifted up", is credited with having the attributes of diety, and then is worshipped as a Goddess.

These little word games do not fool anyone, including God.

Sadly,

Mike

Matt Black · Feb 28, 2006

Originally posted by DHK:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Matt Black:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by DHK:
<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Matt Black:
The point about Gabriel is not that he is worshipped - he is not - but that he offered hyperdulia to Mary in the Annunciation narrative according to Luke. So was he a blasphemer or not...and if he is are you going to tell him or shall I...?!

Prove your point. Gabriel neither worshiped nor was worshiped. The only person that was worshiped in any of these accounts was God, and him alone. If you state such you must offer up evidence for such an untruth.
DHK [/QUOTE]Hyperdulia as follows: "Hail Mary full of grace the Lord is with you. Blessed are you amongst women and blessed is the fruit of your womb, Jesus. [/QUOTE]You are quoting from a Catholic prayer, "The Hail Mary," not the Scripture. You don't think I know the difference? I gave you the Scriptture references to look. That is not what Gabriel said. Look the Scripture up and quote the Scripture and show me any prayer that Gabriel said. Gabriel never gave any worship to Mary, only a greeting with a message.
DHK [/QUOTE]OK, I accept the last phrase is not Scriptural but the rest is straight from Luke 1:28

Alexander · Feb 28, 2006

DHK

Why are you so full of venom toward the Catholic Church and Catholics?

Why don't you love Catholics, the way our Lord loves them, and you and me?

Alexander

Matt Black · Feb 28, 2006

Originally posted by DHK:
I don't find his name in the Bible. The Bible is my only authority.

We have a slight difference in approach then to the Bible and the NT in particular. One group of Christians do things in a certain way because they believe to find that way in the NT; the other group, to which I belong, do things in a certain way because our spiritual ancestors did them that way, and their spiritual ancestors too, and so on, right back to NT times and therefore to us, whilst important, the NT is not the be all and end all of doctrine and practive; that's simply not what it's for.

Matt Black · Feb 28, 2006

Interesting discussion on this sort of thing in the Baptist Only section

D28guy · Feb 28, 2006

Matt,

"therefore to us, whilst important, the NT is not the be all and end all of doctrine and practive;

We know that. Thats one of the many grave problems with the Catholic Church. Possibly the gravest, since all the others would probably disapear in time if the Catholic Church would adopt the proper attitude towards the scriptures.

"that's simply not what it's for."

"All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, reproof, correction, instruction in rightiousness, that the man of God might be complete, and thoroughly equipped for every good work"

"And these were more noble than those at Thessolanica, in that they searched the scriptures daily, to see whether these things are so"

And Jesus Christ sounded like a broken record sometimes...

"Is it not written?..."

"Have you not read?..."

"Is it not written?..."

"Have you not read?..."

"Is it not written?..."

Etc etc etc

God is so very clear regarding this issue.

Mike

Roman Catholicism , cult or not?

Active Member

<b>Moderator</b>

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

<b>Moderator</b>

New Member

New Member

New Member

Well-Known Member

<b>Moderator</b>

Active Member

<b>Moderator</b>

New Member

New Member

New Member

Well-Known Member

New Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

New Member