Romans 9 and Calvinism

[MB]

Our salvation is all the proof needed to confirm our election!

Salvation never made anyone elect. You have to be a Jew to be elect.
MB

 

[MB]

I will only speak for myself. The gospel is the God-given means of bringing the elect to salvation. It is necessary. God is well pleased to bring salvation to those who believe the foolishness of the message preached; that is Jesus Christ and Him crucified.

Holy Spirit draws us, transforms us to be able to believe in spite of our sin nature, convicts us of the truth of who Jesus is and what He has done, and gives us faith to respond to the gospel by accepting Christ as Savior and then permanently indwells us for all our days.

Additionally, the gospel also condemns those who reject it. For one person, drawn by Holy Spirit, an aroma of life. For another, an aroma of death.

And who is adequate for such things? Salvation is a work of God from start to finish.

Few understand it. Fewer still accept it.

Peace to you

Scripture never says any of the false doctrine you just stated. It all comes from your rejection of the truth.

The gospel is for the whole world. Not just the elect.You can only be elect if you are a Jew. We are all the same there simply is no difference between men. Scripture never says Gentiles are elect and it never says it is needed for Salvation. You imagine your elect maybe you should read what happens to those who claim to be a Jew
.
Rev 2:9 I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan.

Saying you are elect is saying you are a Jew
MB

 

[37818]

Saying you are elect is saying you are a Jew
MB

Question, do you believe only Jewish Christians have the believer's priesthood? 1 Peter 2:9, ". . . But ye are an elect generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light: . . ."

 

[Martin Marprelate]

[


So the underlined is why you don't offer scriptural support for your Calvinism. Where would we be if Christ got fed up?.

If you want them again, I'll post them again. They're the same ones I musty have posted 20 times here over the years. Even the Lord Jesus did not repeat Himself endlessly (e.g. John 10:25).
[QUOTE} Men do not always reject Salvation. Some like Cornelius accept Christ the moment they hear the scriptures preached. Not just Cornelius his whole house hold accepted Christ as soon as they heard the gospel Calvinist have claimed that God's grace is irresistible. That man cannot resist God. Some even claim they were dragged off into Salvation against there [sic] wills.lol [/QUOTE]
I did not say that men always reject salvation. Read my post again. And I am one of those whom the Hound of Heaven dragged off to salvation after I had resisted time after time. Praise God for His mercy and for irresistible grace.

Those who trust in the risen Christ are already saved.

Scripture? Election leads to salvation but the terms are not synonymous.

They are already Justified the moment they believe.

They are justified when they believe. I'm not sure if that's what you're saying.

Calvinist [sic] complicate the Salvation process by adding unconditional election to it along with irresistible grace and Total depravity Then they drop limited atonement in the listeners lap. None of this false doctrine is true.
MB

It is
(a) Simple. It's called Grace.
(b) True. And gloriously so.

 

[Yeshua1]

Salvation never made anyone elect. You have to be a Jew to be elect.
MB

ALL ever saved were elected and chosen by the father in Christ!

 

[Iconoclast]

Anyone can believe that has heard the gospel. After all that is what hearing the gospel is all about. I forget you Calvinist don't have to hear it because you're elected. Even though you can't prove it.
MB

Here MB denies the supernatural element to salvation.
That would be the conclusion of the natural man who does not believe that the Spirit must first give a new heart.
No surprise.

 

[agedman]

If you want them again, I'll post them again. They're the same ones I musty have posted 20 times here over the years. Even the Lord Jesus did not repeat Himself endlessly (e.g. John 10:25).

ALL ever saved were elected and chosen by the father in Christ!

Here MB denies the supernatural element to salvation.
That would be the conclusion of the natural man who does not believe that the Spirit must first give a new heart.
No surprise.

You all have to remember that MB is not convinced that gentiles are elected. That tends to skew his application in that any verse mentioning or about “elect” is given to Jews only and not for gentiles.

Gentiles being grafted into believing Israel, does not make the gentiles suddenly Jews; rather, the grafting takes on (imo) a totally new presentation called the bride of Christ totally consisting of the Royal Priesthood, in which the fruit will remain.

Just as any grating changes the end fruit.

 

[canadyjd]

Scripture never says any of the false doctrine you just stated. It all comes from your rejection of the truth…..
MB

I responded to your post that “Calvinists” don’t believe the gospel is necessary for salvation.

I specifically stated the gospel is necessary for salvation.

Your response is that I am proclaiming “false doctrine”.

So, you have plainly stated the gospel is not necessary for salvation, that it is a “false doctrine”.

That clearly demonstrates that you are the one rejecting the truth of scripture.

Your hatred of the doctrines of grace cloud your judgment. There is truly no reason to respond to you.

peace to you

 

[Martin Marprelate]

You all have to remember that MB is not convinced that gentiles are elected. That tends to skew his application in that any verse mentioning or about “elect” is given to Jews only and not for gentiles.
.

I appreciate that, but it is his problem, not mine. Acts of the Apostles 13:48 seems pretty conclusive to me, and if you look at all the uses of eklektos and ekloge in the N.T. it seems more than a bit of a stretch to say that they only apply to Jews. For example, Thessalonika was a Gentile city, so I don't see how 1 Thessalonians 1:4 can apply only to a tiny minority of the church there.

 

[Iconoclast]

You all have to remember that MB is not convinced that gentiles are elected. That tends to skew his application in that any verse mentioning or about “elect” is given to Jews only and not for gentiles.

Gentiles being grafted into believing Israel, does not make the gentiles suddenly Jews; rather, the grafting takes on (imo) a totally new presentation called the bride of Christ totally consisting of the Royal Priesthood, in which the fruit will remain.

Just as any grating changes the end fruit.

The elect Jew or Gentile are part of the True Israel, elect IN Christ.romans 9 and Roman 10,
Romans 2:28,29 settled this question already

 

[AustinC]

Salvation never made anyone elect. You have to be a Jew to be elect.
MB

An assertion not promoted anywhere in the Bible, but held by MB.
If he were correct, then Abraham would not be elect, nor anyone previous to Abraham. In fact, the term Jew doesn't exist until the separation of the Kingdoms after Solomon. Therefore, in strict terms, 10 of the 12 tribes could not be elect by MBs statement.
I simply won't argue with MB as he will not accept any council on this matter.

 

[Reformed1689]

Salvation never made anyone elect. You have to be a Jew to be elect.
MB

Might want to rethink that one, that's not what Scripture states.

 

[Dave G]

May I suggest that salvation is offered to those who trust in the risen Christ not the self appointed members of an exclusive club.

Respectfully,
I have no idea where you get this view from, except perhaps from the same place that I once did...
The teachings of the church that I grew up in, after I first heard the word of God and the Gospel of my salvation.

According to the Scriptures,
Salvation is not an offer, it is a promise made to only those that believe on Christ, from the heart ( John 3:15-16, Romans 10:8-10 ).

As I've stated in post # 12, I see from the Bible that the elect are not self-appointed members of an exclusive club.
They are God-appointed members ( Romans 8:29-30, Romans 9, Ephesians 1:4-6, Ephesians 2:10, 2 Thessalonians 2:13-14, Acts of the Apostles 13:48, John 6:37-47, John 6:64-65, John 17:2 ) of an "exclusive club" that He alone is responsible for changing the hearts of, and that have nothing to stand on except His mercy and grace.
What makes it exclusive is that no one is saved apart from their belief on Christ, and their salvation from His eternal wrath in the Lake of Fire.

That exclusivity is clearly found even in "verses" like John 3:16, where the "whosoever believeth" are the only ones that should not perish, but have everlasting life...
It is God Himself that makes it exclusive, not men.

His rules, His way...not our way and definitely not with our assistance or even cooperation.

Some theological schools of thought have made the very simple quite complex.

Speaking for myself, I do not get my understanding from any "theological school", as I do not believe that God's people need them.
To me, they are man-made institutions that attempt to teach what only God's Spirit can teach...

"How to understand the Bible".

In other words, Christians have been given all that pertains to life and godliness in the Person of Jesus Christ and His indwelling Spirit...
He is all that they need in order to understand the Scriptures ( 1 Corinthians 2:6-16, 1 John 2:20-27 ).
Those very Scriptures are are filled with a complexity of details about the Lord, and give us many important truths for us to take to heart...
Truths like how and why He saved us, and what He has saved us for and to...an eternal relationship with Him and His Son.

The simplicity that is in Christ is in the complex details, but it is a complexity that leads to one simple statement:
Salvation is of the Lord.


May the Lord bless you greatly.

 

[MB]

Question, do you believe only Jewish Christians have the believer's priesthood? 1 Peter 2:9, ". . . But ye are an elect generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light: . . ."

1Pe 2:9 and ye are a choice race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people acquired, that the excellences ye may shew forth of Him who out of darkness did call you to His wondrous light;

1Pe 2:10 who were once not a people, and are now the people of God; who had not found kindness, and now have found kindness.
It would seem according to your Bible we are elect. However the word elect does not appear in the YLT.
It says we are a Royal priest hood
So no I do not think the Jews are a Royal priest hood. Just recently since they became a country again have they begun to see their mistakes. Jews are turning back to Christ gradually.
MB

 

[MB]

Here MB denies the supernatural element to salvation.
That would be the conclusion of the natural man who does not believe that the Spirit must first give a new heart.
No surprise.

How is it super natural? You even sound like a mystic I noticed you have no scripture so I'll just disregard your coments.
MB

 

[MB]

I responded to your post that “Calvinists” don’t believe the gospel is necessary for salvation.

I specifically stated the gospel is necessary for salvation.

Your response is that I am proclaiming “false doctrine”.

So, you have plainly stated the gospel is not necessary for salvation, that it is a “false doctrine”.

That clearly demonstrates that you are the one rejecting the truth of scripture.

Your hatred of the doctrines of grace cloud your judgment. There is truly no reason to respond to you.

peace to you

Here you go trying to twist my words. There is nothing true about your Calvinism.
MB

 

[MB]

Might want to rethink that one, that's not what Scripture states.

. Show me your great knowledge of election. IOW's prove it
MB

 

[canadyjd]

Here you go trying to twist my words. There is nothing true about your Calvinism.
MB

No “twisting” at all. I said the gospel was necessary for salvation. You stated in post #142 “scripture never says any of the false doctrine you just stated….”

That is very clear. You said it is a false doctrine to claim the gospel is necessary for salvation.

Or perhaps you don’t read what anyone actually writes? You just respond with your anti-doctrines of grace diatribe.

Which is exactly why I don’t believe there is any useful conversation with you. You don’t want a discussion. You want to vent hatred toward “Calvinists”.

peace to you

 

[Iconoclast]

How is it super natural? You even sound like a mystic I noticed you have no scripture so I'll just disregard your coments.
MB

Now you seem perplexed that salvation is supernatural, confirming what we have said all along...you do not understand biblical salvation.
I only offer scripture to those who want help.
You do not fit that description....all these brothers who have offered you scriptural help, you mock and scoff at, trampling the words of life under your feet

 

[Iconoclast]

. Show me your great knowledge of election. IOW's prove it
MB

it has been proven, you cannot welcome it.