You of all people calling someone rude! This is priceless. Your the only one that has had their post deleted because it was so offensive.
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Rome's Mary on the Cross and God's Throne
- Thread starter Gregory Perry Sr.
- Start date
You of all people calling someone rude! This is priceless. Your the only one that has had their post deleted because it was so offensive.
Either jesus paid in FULL my sin debt, or else I still have to pay God for it!
mary/catholic saints were ALl sinners same as me, so they would have NO merit to contribute, ONLY they have would be from Christ Himself!
To God, i am the same in a spiritual sense as mary/paul?peter to Him, ALL sinners needing to be saved by His GRACE ALONE!
It was a picture of Cap. Picard from Star Trek slapping his forehead. Hardly " so offensive".
No, it was the comment you made of me being 'stupid' that accompanied it that was so offensive and why the moderator deleted it.
The comment you are referring to was the caption under the picture, not a comment I made.
Why don't you explain how those pictures of Catholics worshipping Mary aren't really pictures of Catholics worshipping Mary. Especially when everyone can plainly see that it is.
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You don't know about what Nestorius actually said as you never heard about Bazaar Heracleides discovered in 1895.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nestorius
http://www.ccel.org/ccel/pearse/morefathers/files/nestorius_bazaar_1_book1_part1.htm
Roman Catholic used to burn the literatures of the Christians who opposed to the Idolatry of Rome, then accused them of heresies which they never claimed actually.
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Thinkingstuff
Active Member
Catholic Church also Honors Joseph. Though we don't believe Jesus had brothers and sisters from Mary.
Thinkingstuff
Active Member
Jesus paid in full your debt. That is not in question. Catholics say we need to strive for Perfection as Paul says. You want to believe that sanctification requires no effort. But to live rightly is a daily choice of laying down your life. Paul says that he runs without looking back but he doesn't quit. This is what you think is a "works based faith" when in reality its about sanctification. Think of it this way there are two people. Both have "trusted in Jesus". One goes on with his life making no effort to live rightly and consequently doesn't take sin to seriously, the other one does. Which of the two who have trusted in Jesus pleases Jesus more?
I would disagree about Mary being a sinner. However, everyone else even those called saints (though we are all called to be saints) were sinners. But you question has no traction because we are given salvation as a gift but strive in our sanctification.
The question is what do you do with his grace? Just bask in it? Or do you use it to grow in faith and sanctification? If you just bask in it you miss the point of what God wants to do in you during your life.
Thinkingstuff
Active Member
Cap. Piccard has a lot of forehead so....
mary was born a sinner, as ALL but jesus were!
She rejoiced in god her saviour!
And either you are saved or you are not, as it takes ONLY faith in chrsit and receiving his Gift of eternal life to be saved, but takes rest of your life to become molded into His image, but that does NOT make me any more saved, just more like him in thought/deed/action!
Thinkingstuff
Active Member
I disagree. I believe Mary was saved pre-emptively rather than out of sin. In both cases she needs to be saved.
either you will be saved or you will not be saved.
the bible states that all who hear jesus and receive him have ALREADY passed over from death to life, to have ALREADY been translated out of Kingdom of satan into jesus Kingdom, have you?
And the bible states ALL in adam have sinned, where in the bible did mary get the exception caluse?
Thinkingstuff
Active Member
I'm in the Kingdom. I'm not in Heaven as yet. I look forward to getting there. And since I believe in Jesus and that God rose him from the dead you can't question my salvation as according to you that all I need to be saved. Also since other Catholics believe in Jesus and that he rose from the dead there is no point in trying to convert them either because that is all they need to be saved right?
According to your logic since Jesus was also a man he also fits into the "without exception" clause of yours and therefore you must consider him a sinner. So if there is an exception there may be another exception. The bible says all have died. But Enoch and Elijah haven't.
NOT questioning your salvation, just trying to see how you can make a distinct between 'sorta" being saved, and actual right here and now being saved!
Do you believe that you cannot be sure if saved untilafter god judges your entire life, how well you did in taking sacraments, good works etc before having Him approve you as being finally saved and going to heaven than?
And Jesus WAS the exception, as he was virgin born, by passing being in the line of Adam, as His father was and is god, and he was conceived by HS in mary, NO other person ever had that happen!
WestminsterMan
New Member
True. And no woman except Mary ever concieved in this way OR had the HS as her spouse. Hmmm....
WM
Thinkingstuff
Active Member
Wait! But didn't you just say "either your are saved or your are not!" So how can there be a 'sorta' being saved and 'actual right here and dow being saved!' Now you've come up with another distinction! A 'sorta' catagory for salvation. So are you or are you not or are you sorta?
There is an old saying "it aint over until the fat lady sings." You don't believe in apostasy. I do believe people can make a shipwreck of their faith. But if you remain in him unto the last day you can be assured of your salvation or entry into heaven.
The sacraments and good works work towards my sanctification. However, If I stopped the sacraments and good works and praying then I open myself up to the possibility of willingly apostating. What happens when a Christian stops praying, doing daily devotion readings, going to church, and fellowshiping? Its called backsliding. And in your world backsliding is no big deal. In fact according to you a man can backslide to the point of becoming like Hitler and still be confident in his eternal salvation because he 'actually right here and now believed in Jesus Christ. Where the only consiquence of his backsliding is missing out on future crowns in Glory (sure every christian can get crowns but say Mary has a crown and you are of the devil!) and the person will be spiritually misserable while alive. I believe a backslider is in danger of Apostating.
So there is an exception and the bible doesn't mean "all" in the literal sense which means there can be another exception. Just like the bible says "all men have died" yet the bible speaks of two who didn't!
NO! ONLY jesus was born sinless, Enoch/Elijah did not taste physical death, BOTH though were sinners!
and since you factor into the equation of salvation Sacraments/Good works are needing in order to keep being saved, or eventually getting one saved..
How much of that is required by god to get finally saved, do you or any oth Catholic know how much meritious grace that you will need?
You do know that last part of the HS being her spouse is blashesmphy , right?
WestminsterMan
New Member
Thinkingstuff
Active Member
But the Bible says all have sinned. Well if Jesus is also a man the bible can't mean all in a literal sense now can it? If it does then you would have to say Jesus is a sinner. Since Jesus is an exception then all isn't literal and exception can exist. Who's to say it isn't God's will to preemptively save Mary from sin? Do you believe God is incapable of it?
I'm not debating whether they were sinners. What I'm saying is the bible says it is appointed once for man to die. But these men haven't died. Therefore in this "all" scenario there are at least two exceptions. I don't know if you know this but you know the bible only speaks to one region of the world. Do you know it says nothing of the Mayans or Aztec? That being the case what other exceptions may there be?
See it is clear you don't read what I've said. I said Sacraments and good works are for my sanctification. And if I'm not actively working on my sanctification I may backslide and if I backslide I may apostate. You just keep repeating catch phrases without an idea of what you are talking about.
I've had told you once I have told you a hundred times and will Go on to a million times until it finally makes you understand. Its not about how much I do but that I remain in Christ. Forgiveness and salvation are free gifts. For you backsliding is no big deal. For me backsliding is sin and sin can lead to my apostatizing from Jesus.