Rome's Mary on the Cross and God's Throne

[Yeshua1]

You saw what you wanted to see in the pictures regarding Mary. You concluded Catholics were 'worshipping Mary'. No discussion, just accusations.

Read DHK's response to the scripture in Revelation I was discussing. He believes I am reading to much into that passage and explains why without being rude or offensive. You, on the other hand, resort to insults and nastiness with no discussion about the topic. Just accusations and insults. And of course, even the moderator saw your post as offensive and deleted it. That speaks for itself. Nuff said.

Do mary or the saints do ANYTHING for you that jesus and the Holy Spirit are unable to do?

Di they need "help" in their work on our behalf?

 

[Thinkingstuff]

If there are wedding pictures and pictures of my family on the wall of my house, I look on them and remember my family.
That is unlike the stations of the cross where the Catholic bows their head in front of them and prays in front of them transgressing the Ten Commandments and worships them, committing idolatry. There is a vast difference.

Clearly you don't know what the Stations of the Cross are. They are dipiction of all the events during the passion which lead to the Cross. Each picture or sculpture recognizes each part of that journey and each representation leads us to meditated on that specific aspect of Christ Passion. Which takes us to the Crucifixion. Which is supposed to inspire sorrow for our sins and and the wonder and Majesty of Christ laying down his life that we might be saved. So when we bow after a meditation at each station it is honor that is given God for what he did.

 

[Thinkingstuff]

Jn 6 talk about the faith ( Jn 6:47) The Words are the Life and the Spirit ( Jn 6:63)

Yes and God spoke the universe into existance. God is a spirit therefore the what is of the Spirit is reality and material is a wisp of smoke in comparison. Therefore when God said Let there be light and there was light so it is when Jesus says this is my body, so it is.

 

[Thinkingstuff]

Do mary or the saints do ANYTHING for you that jesus and the Holy Spirit are unable to do?

Di they need "help" in their work on our behalf?

Does your pastor do anything for you that Jesus and the Holy Spirit are unable to do? Then stop asking him to pray for you that just idolatry.

 

[WestminsterMan]

A Heretic Comedy by Human Syllogism of Roman Catholic!

1. Jesus is God, Mary is Mother of Jesus
Therefore Mary is Mother of God.

2. Holy spirit is God, Mary is Mother of God
Therefore Mary is Mother of Holy Spirit

3. God the Father is God Mary is Mother of God.
Therefore Mary is Mother of God the Father


4. Jesus was in the womb of Mary
Holy Spirit was not away from Jesus when He was in Mary’s womb.
Therefore Holy Spirit was carried by Mary.


5. Jesus was in the womb of Mary
God the Father was not away from Jesus when He was in Mary’s womb.
Therefore God the Father was in the womb of Mary.


6. Therefore from the above,
Mary was the Mother of God the Father, Mother of God the Son, Mother of God the Holy Spirit.


7. Jesus is Creator
Mary is the Mother of Jesus
Mary is the Mother of Creator of the whole Universe.

8. We have to respect Mother.
Mary is Mother of our God.
We have to respect Mary as Mother of God.

9. The Salvation was made possible just because Mary obeyed God.
Without Mary, there could be no Salvation possible.
Therefore we have to believe that Mary was the Co-Redeemer!

10. Ever-Virgin Mary, Perpetual Virgin Mary, Life time virgin Mary,
So loved the world, that she gave her only begotten Son that whosoever believeth on Him should not perish but have everlasting life.
If anyone denies any of the above mentioned Faith Statements, that person is Heretic! Anathema !
-- A Heretic Comedy by Human Syllogism - by Roman Catholic!

This is why Heb 7:2-3 rejects that Son of God has Mother.
The 2 verses say both Melchisedec and Son of God

1) King of Righteousness
2) King of Peace
3) No Father (earthly)
4) No Mother
5) No genealogy
6)No beginning
7) No ending
8) Living forever
9) Priest

Son of God had no mother! This is how the Bible writer sees the role of Mary.

Human Syllogism doesn’t work in explaining God’s Deity and Godhead.




.
1. Was Mary the Mother of God the Son before the Creation of the World when Jesus Created the world?

2. Was Mary the Mother of God the Son when Moses work for Christ ( Heb 11:26)?

3. Was Mary the Mother of God the Son anytime before the birth of Mary?

4. Did Mary give birth to the Deity of Jesus Christ?
Was the Divine nature of Jesus born by Mary?

You divide the two natures of Christ - simple Nestorianism.

WM

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

Clearly you don't know what the Stations of the Cross are. They are dipiction of all the events during the passion which lead to the Cross. Each picture or sculpture recognizes each part of that journey and each representation leads us to meditated on that specific aspect of Christ Passion. Which takes us to the Crucifixion. Which is supposed to inspire sorrow for our sins and and the wonder and Majesty of Christ laying down his life that we might be saved. So when we bow after a meditation at each station it is honor that is given God for what he did.

Sorry that I haven't read this thread before asking, but please tell me where or which is the 'first station'?

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

This is why Heb 7:2-3 rejects that Son of God has Mother.
The 2 verses say both Melchisedec and Son of God

Beg to differ; it says Melchisedec had no mother, a clear inference to The Son BEFORE his incarnation. It does not speak of the incarnated “Jesus Christ, born of Mary".

"No genealogy" explains how it can be said that Melchisedec had no mother; it does not mean though that Melchisedec was a self-existent and no born of a woman human being. No one knew his genealogy and therefore only he was reckoned as a priest without a mother. Moses too was a priest without the necessary genealogical qualification and therefore AS A PRIEST—in fact as the high priest of Israel—, had no mother.

It’s like in my language we speak of an 'onegte kind' -- an 'unreal child' -- the child is deemed as without father or mother having been born 'extra marital'.

The Son of Man of course had a mother, the sinner-woman Mary of Josef. That is what the Christian Church’s Confession of Faith says and means. The Roman Catholic 'church' is heretical in this regard [as in virtually everything they believe and do through worship].

 

[Thinkingstuff]

Actually Westiminsterman, a couple of flaws in Eliyahu's attempt to debate on the subject. And certainly shows several heretical perspectives.

A Heretic Comedy by Human Syllogism of Roman Catholic!

1.Jesus is God, Mary is Mother of Jesus
Therefore Mary is Mother of God.

He starts off with a sound premise. But then he starts to show his inadiquate view of the Trinity and the Hypostatic Union when he says

2.Holy spirit is God, Mary is Mother of God. Therefore Mary is Mother of Holy Spirit
3.God the Father is God, Mary is Mother of God.[ Therefore Mary is Mother of God the Father

Clearly indicating That Eliyahu adheres to the Sabellianism heresy. The heresy that makes the Trinity after a modalistic model. By his statement above its clear that he views the Trinity one person wearing 3 different hats. Which becomes more evident when he says.

4.Jesus was in the womb of Mary, Holy Spirit was not away from Jesus when He was in Mary’s womb. Therefore Holy Spirit was carried by Mary.Jesus was in the womb of Mary. God the Father was not away from Jesus when He was in Mary’s womb. Therefore God the Father was in the womb of Mary. Therefore from the above,Mary was the Mother of God the Father, Mother of God the Son, Mother of God the Holy Spirit.

He then confuses the fact that if Mary was the Mother of the Creator does not indeed equal Mary creating the creator. Rather her role was as a created being who mothered the Creator. Nor does he understand that people can be honored by whom they are related to. Thus it is right to honor the mother of Jesus if Jesus is respected by us. But if we do not value Jesus Neither would we value his mother. We can see his confusion here.

7.Jesus is Creator. Mary is the Mother of Jesus. Mary is the Mother of Creator of the whole Universe. We have to respect Mother. Mary is Mother of our God. We have to respect Mary as Mother of God

After this he then confuses primary role with indirect role.

9.The Salvation was made possible just because Mary obeyed God. Without Mary, there could be no Salvation possible. Therefore we have to believe that Mary was the Co-Redeemer!

He then makes a falacious logical jump from first equating the Trinity with a modalistic view to ever virgin! Not knowing "ever virgin" doesn't come from Trinitarian Dogma rather out of her role as the ark of the New Covenant. And it relation to bearing Jesus very person within her womb. Were we are all agreed that her virginity remained in tact all the way to the birth of Christ. The question is after birth. However, its clear you cannot make a logical jump from Mary Mothering Christ to ever virgin. You must then go from Mother of Christ to Covenant theology to role as ark, to respect for God which hand could not touch the ark, to Joseph's being a faithful man's respect for Mary's role as bearing the very Jesus himself in her womb. We see no consept of Covenant theology in his argument thus his jump is illogical. It is also illogical to assume that Mary as the ark for Jesus Christ is some how now equal to the father as indicated in his illogical statement.

10.Ever-Virgin Mary, Perpetual Virgin. So loved the world, that she gave her only begotten Son that whosoever believeth on Him should not perish but have everlasting life. If anyone denies any of the above mentioned Faith Statements, that person is Heretic! Anathema ![/

it being clear the Catholic Church has never taught this equality to the Father. He then tries to seperate Jesus' Hypostatic Union much like Nestorious. Nor does he see the danger going the other way with the Monophysites.

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

You divide the two natures of Christ - simple Nestorianism.

WM

How can the "two natures of Christ", be "divided" if they are TWO already?

It is a fallacy Jesus had 'two natures'; He had ONE 'nature' because He was totally good and righteous while being human in ONE Person of the Godhead—like and which He will stay forever after having "come" from the dead "in the flesh", VICTOR, CHRIST AND LORD.

 

[Yeshua1]

You divide the two natures of Christ - simple Nestorianism.

WM

As does the bible though, for God the Son existed eternally, and that aspect of Jesus was conceived in mary by the Third person of the trinity!

mary gave 'birth" to jesus Humanity period, as His God nature has no beginningtime!

 

[Yeshua1]

Does your pastor do anything for you that Jesus and the Holy Spirit are unable to do? Then stop asking him to pray for you that just idolatry.

he does NOTHING though for me on a merit or Grace basis, unlike mary and the catholic saints, who disperse towards us their 'spiritual blessings!"

Again, there is NO account of people interceding to god on behalf of the living, its just catholic man made dogma!

 

[WestminsterMan]

How can the "two natures of Christ", be "divided" if they are TWO already?

It is a fallacy Jesus had 'two natures'; He had ONE 'nature' because He was totally good and righteous while being human in ONE Person of the Godhead—like and which He will stay forever after having "come" from the dead "in the flesh", VICTOR, CHRIST AND LORD.

They are not divided. It is the heretics who must by necessity seperate Jesus into God and Man, lest their "Jesus had no Mother" position fall apart.
WM

 

[WestminsterMan]

he does NOTHING though for me on a merit or Grace basis, unlike mary and the catholic saints, who disperse towards us their 'spiritual blessings!"

Again, there is NO account of people interceding to god on behalf of the living, its just catholic man made dogma!

Then you should never pray for anyone as to do so is to intercede on their "account".

WM

 

[Thinkingstuff]

Sorry that I haven't read this thread before asking, but please tell me where or which is the 'first station'?

The first station is "Jesus is condemned to die" in front of Pontius Pilate.

 

[Thinkingstuff]

Beg to differ; it says Melchisedec had no mother, a clear inference to The Son BEFORE his incarnation. It does not speak of the incarnated “Jesus Christ, born of Mary".

"No genealogy" explains how it can be said that Melchisedec had no mother; it does not mean though that Melchisedec was a self-existent and no born of a woman human being. No one knew his genealogy and therefore only he was reckoned as a priest without a mother. Moses too was a priest without the necessary genealogical qualification and therefore AS A PRIEST—in fact as the high priest of Israel—, had no mother.

It’s like in my language we speak of an 'onegte kind' -- an 'unreal child' -- the child is deemed as without father or mother having been born 'extra marital'.

The Son of Man of course had a mother, the sinner-woman Mary of Josef. That is what the Christian Church’s Confession of Faith says and means. The Roman Catholic 'church' is heretical in this regard [as in virtually everything they believe and do through worship].

A Christophony?

 

[Thinkingstuff]

he does NOTHING though for me on a merit or Grace basis, unlike mary and the catholic saints, who disperse towards us their 'spiritual blessings!"

Again, there is NO account of people interceding to god on behalf of the living, its just catholic man made dogma!

What are you talking about? I don't think you know.

 

[Baptist4life]

Thinkingstuff said:
....Nor does he understand that people can be honored by whom they are related to.

I must ask where's the RCC honor for Joseph and Jesus brothers and sisters then?

 

[Yeshua1]

Then you should never pray for anyone as to do so is to intercede on their "account".

WM

again, there are NO scriptures to support praying to the dead!

And there are NO merits to be gained from mary or peter/paul intercedingif they could, which they don't , as jesus is ONLY intermediator god appointed for that role!

 

[WestminsterMan]

again, there are NO scriptures to support praying to the dead!

And there are NO merits to be gained from mary or peter/paul intercedingif they could, which they don't , as jesus is ONLY intermediator god appointed for that role!

And how do you know there are no merits to be gained - are you God? Isn't that the real problem here? You and others here think you've got the whole thing nailed down - that you have the mind of God all to yourself. When in reallity you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.

WM

 

[Baptist4life]

And how do you know there are no merits to be gained - are you God? Isn't that the real problem here? You and others here think you've got the whole thing nailed down - that you have the mind of God all to yourself. When in reallity you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.

WM

How rude! :thumbs: