Featured Sabbath breaking - becomes the mark of the Beast in the future

Absolutely:


Ephesians 2:13-15

King James Version (KJV)

13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.

14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;

15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;

And...with a straight face...


:saint:

Doesn't change the fact that the reunification of Judah is a separate issue from the unification of all men in Christ. Israel does not lose her identity completely and definitely not until she comes under the New Covenant, which is shown to occur during the Tribulation.

As far as the Principles of the Law, those never change. It is never going to be okay to commit idolatry, murder, steal, et cetera, but if we maintain the Basic Principles then we are in fact ignoring the completion Christ brought to our understanding of the Law (Written and revealed Word).

In other words, as long as I do not kill someone physically then I am good...according to what you are saying here.

Understand?

In regards to the Sabbath, I believe we exchange the weekly Sabbath for a view that every day is holy unto the Lord. That change is due to the indwelling of the Spirit which again...you cannot impose in Old Testament Economies.


God bless.

 

This is not even relevant to the point I made.

No-one is suggesting that the "Law of God" has been abolished, in view is the Covenant of Law. There is a difference.

Furthermore, how you arrive at...

...from...

...and the accompanying point...

...is beyond me.


God bless.

 

Very glad to hear that my friend.

There is no problem, it is simply a matter of understanding the temporal quality of the Old Testament Economies versus the eternal quality of the New Testament/Covenant.

For example:


Hebrews 9:6-9

King James Version (KJV)

6 Now when these things were thus ordained, the priests went always into the first tabernacle, accomplishing the service of God.

7 But into the second went the high priest alone once every year, not without blood, which he offered for himself, and for the errors of the people:

8 The Holy Ghost this signifying, that the way into the holiest of all was not yet made manifest, while as the first tabernacle was yet standing:

9 Which was a figure for the time then present, in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience;


The writer distinguishes some pretty important facts here in contrasting the First Covenant with the New.

And this will be brief, I am out of time thirty minutes ago, lol.


11 But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building;

12 Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us.

13 For if the blood of bulls and of goats, and the ashes of an heifer sprinkling the unclean, sanctifieth to the purifying of the flesh:

14 How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?

15 And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.


What he presents here is that the Old Testament Saint died having only Levitical Service as the means for Atonement, and it is not until Christ actually dies their transgression are redeemed. He makes this point several times throughout the Book.


22 And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission.

23 It was therefore necessary that the patterns of things in the heavens should be purified with these; but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these.

24 For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, which are the figures of the true; but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us:


Now just as in the first quote, here we see something truly astonishing...Christ went into Heaven. Now look back at the first quote:


8 The Holy Ghost this signifying, that the way into the holiest of all was not yet made manifest, while as the first tabernacle was yet standing:

9 Which was a figure for the time then present, in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience;


What he is saying is the same thing Christ said here:


John 3:13

King James Version (KJV)

13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.


He further drives this point home in saying...


Hebrews 10:15-20

King James Version (KJV)

15 Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before,

16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;

17 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.

18 Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin.

19 Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus,

20 By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh;


The point to all this in response to your suggestion there is a different salvation afforded the Old Testament saint is just to say...

...they were saved eternally in the Old Testament. While we know they were "saved" in the sense of being faithful and their eternal as secure as any born again believer today...

...they had not yet had their sins atoned for and Reconciliation on a New Covenant level had not taken place.

Go back and consider again my posts speaking about the Mystery of the Gospel. Do a word study on Mystery itself, it's a great study.

The problem is not in the solution, lol, the problem is imposing into the Old Testament Economies something that was not realized in the Old Testament, and would not be realized until Christ came, Died, Resurrected, Returned to Heaven, and sent the Promised Spirit.

Regeneration is in fact the result of the internal and eternal indwelling of God, as compared with the external ministry of God in the lives of men in the Old Testament.

I agree, it's best when those of us who have opposing views actually try to understand why those differences are in place.

Out of time, Bob, so see you in the next round.


God bless.

 

I agree the Ten Commandments were not abolished...they were made more difficult for us, because we understand the intent behind them now, and this due to the Promised Spirit.

Doesn't change the fact that we are not commanded to observe the Sabbath as Gentiles, nor are the Jews commanded to because they are of Israel.


God bless.

 

Roman 14 mentions ESTEEMING a day above others and ESTEEMING all alike. Isn't this what sabbath keeping is, ESTEEMING Saturday above the other days of the week?

And the weekly sabbath is among them

You are a dishonest man; first, you rule out the weekly sabbath from Romans 14 without any reason, then you force other Jewish feasts here.

Be wise BobRyan
Isaiah 66:23 (KJV)
23 And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another,
and from one sabbath to another,

If there will be sabbath in eternity, there will be NEW MOON

If no man should judge me over sabbath, sabbath is abrogated.
Imagine Paul saying BobRyan should not be judged over adultery; that he can sleep around as much as he can handle
Show me anywhere the sin of breaking sabbath is mentioned in NT. yet I can show you breaking of all others. Why couldn't Paul give instructions for Sabbath to Gentiles?

 

My brother, semantics is a terminal mental illness....I mean it

Romans 14:5-6 (KJV)
One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind. 6 He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it.

Now let's go Greek
'Esteemeth' is κρίνω (krinō)
Here is krinō defined. Many definitions. This is the most sensible;
to separate; to make a distinction between; to exercise judgment upon; to estimate,
https://www.teknia.com/greek-dictionary/krino

'Regardeth' is φρονέω (phroneō)
to heed, pay regard to
Again this makes the most sense
https://www.teknia.com/greek-dictionary/phroneo

KEEPING sabbath is making a distinction between Saturday and other days
KEEPING sabbath is paying regard to Saturday over and above other days

If what SDAs do is not phroneō nor krinō, please tell me what is and give examples

Leviticus 23:1-2 (KJV)
And the Lord spake unto Moses, saying, 2 Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them, Concerning the feasts of the Lord, which ye shall proclaim to be holy convocations, even these are my feasts. 3 Six days shall work be done: but the seventh day is the sabbath of rest, an holy convocation; ye shall do no work therein: it is the sabbath of the Lord in all your dwellings.
Leviticus 23 mentions sabbath together with other feasts. Romans does not mention ANY feast my brother, but observing or keeping ANY feast including Saturday would be phroneō and krinō, 'regarding' and 'esteeming' it ABOVE other days

You are commanded to 'keep' the sabbath in Exodus 20:8, in Deut 5:12 to sanctify/set it apart. In short, EVERYTHING you do on and for Saturday is exactly what a Jew bound by Torah would do for a New Moon and an annual feast. The difference between you and them is FREQUENCY.

Very true

Who set aside Passover, Tabarnacles?

I know that automatically BobRyan sees 'commandment' he sees the Ten whereas any instruction from God is a commandment. This is a convenient assumption to help him break as much of the Torah as possible without guilt while maintaining that he is 'keeping' the commandments.

To help you with comprehension, please define the word 'commandment'

 

The RCC has nothing to do with the Sunday observance. Justin Martyr says it was in observance of Christ's resurrection.....he pre-dates Constantine's RCC by couple hundred years or so.

Sunday was chosen to recognize Christ as Lord....and Lord of the Sabbath, as he declared himself to be.

Paul states

Col. 2:16[†]Therefore let no one *pass judgment on you*in questions of food and drink, or with regard to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath. 17[†] *These are a shadow of the things to come, but the substance belongs to Christ

The Sabbath belongs to Christ. We honor it on his resurrection day. We honor and praise Him.



[

 

I would agree that the Ten Commandments present the principles of morality and obedience to God and interaction with our neighbor, but again we still have no command to specifically worship on the Sabbath.

You can deny that the Weekly Sabbath is in view here...


Colossians 2:15-17

King James Version (KJV)

15 And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.

16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:

17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.


...but it is a weak argument.

It is right there in the text, my friend, and it establishes the principle that I cannot judge you for believing you must obey the Law, and you cannot judge me for my view that every day is to be equally holy unto God.

Having specific days can be a snare for some, who think that because they fulfill a "charge" they are being obedient to God.

And I would again point out that the shadow of the Covenant of Law was only meant to be temporary. Again, the magnitude of Christ's Work and the difference between the external compliance of man in religion (Judaism) can in no way be compared with the internal and eternal realities of that which has been bestowed upon us.

And again...the Old Testament Saint had not received what we have.

Consider:


John 20:19

King James Version (KJV)

19 Then the same day at evening, being the first day of the week, when the doors were shut where the disciples were assembled for fear of the Jews, came Jesus and stood in the midst, and saith unto them, Peace be unto you.


Meeting on the First Day of the Week had as a reason the fact that Christ was rejected of Israel on a National level.

It was okay then, and we see the Lord coming unto them. Not saying, "You can't meet today, have you forsaken the Law?"

But peace be unto you.

Christ is still meeting the faithful on this day, my friend, as well as on Saturday, and Monday, and Tuesday, and...well, you get the point.

Don't be surprised that demanding Sabbath observance is viewed as being reminiscent of the demands of Judaizers. And keep in mind that Paul went in to witness and teach the Jews on their turf.


Acts 13:14-17

King James Version (KJV)

14 But when they departed from Perga, they came to Antioch in Pisidia, and went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and sat down.

15 And after the reading of the law and the prophets the rulers of the synagogue sent unto them, saying, Ye men and brethren, if ye have any word of exhortation for the people, say on.

16 Then Paul stood up, and beckoning with his hand said, Men of Israel, and ye that fear God, give audience.

17 The God of this people of Israel chose our fathers, and exalted the people when they dwelt as strangers in the land of Egypt, and with an high arm brought he them out of it.



God bless.

 

Why do you bring this man up. I have pointed this out to you before. It is deception, lies, dishonesty, hypocrisy and a whole lot of other things.

Moody did not believe in the Sabbath.
Moody did not keep the Sabbath.
Moody' sermon--the purpose of it--was simply to urge people to set aside time from their busy work seek so they would be in church on Sundays, not the Sabbath.
He had no interest in laboriously keeping the Sabbath.
Moody distanced himself deliberately from all SDA teaching on the Sabbath.

For you to use Moody's material either shows ignorance (which is not the case) or crass dishonesty, which is the case. Why are you so dishonest, Bob. This man hated the doctrines of the SDA!