Sabbath breaking - becomes the mark of the Beast in the future

[BobRyan]

Rebel raises a very good question on this subject on that other thread - so including it here.

So you and SDA really believe that God really will judge people based on what day of the week they worship Him? To me, that is incredible and against the freedom we have in Jesus Christ.

A reasonable point indeed. Remember that this is a prediction about future events based on what the Bible presently says about the significance of God's Commandments. (Also recall that we ourselves were Sunday keeping Adventists -- until this subject was pointed out to us by groups such as the Seventh-day Baptists and we had to sit down and take a hard serious look at whether the Bible Sabbath still mattered at all).

Think about the argument the serpent makes to Eve "do you really think God is going to condemn all of mankind just because you happen to eat fruit from the wrong tree? really? isn't that against the freedom you have as intelligent life forms - free agents? Surely God will not do that"

Think about Christ's words in Ex 20 "love Me and Keep My commandments"

And in John 14:15 "if you Love Me - Keep My Commandments".

And in 1 John 5:1-4 we show we love God when we "Keep His Commandments"

And in Rev 14:15 "The saints Keep the Commandments of God and their faith in Jesus".

And notice Christ's own statement when the Jews (who are Not claiming to be at War against the Ten Commandments nor against the 5th Commandment) merely "edit slightly" the 5th commandment with their "CORBAN" alteration... .Notice what Christ said -

Christ's thinking on the subject of breaking one of God's Commandments by claiming to bend-edit slightly-modify one of them.


Mark 7

7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
8 For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.
9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.
10 For Moses said, Honour thy father and thy mother; and, Whoso curseth father or mother, let him die the death:
11 But ye say, If a man shall say to his father or mother, It is Corban, that is to say, a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me; he shall be free.
12 And ye suffer him no more to do ought for his father or his mother;
13 Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.

That is a case of Christ demonstrating the way that the magisterium is hammered "sola scriptura" in the cases where it's traditions and "doctrines of men" are at odds with scripture.

Isn't that a bit drastic in Gen 3 --- just for eating fruit from the wrong tree?

Isn't that a bit drastic in Mark 7 --- just for slight "tweek" of the 5th commandment - not really claiming to make God's commandment void?

What about when the claim IS to make it void???

Hence that other thread -- #1 ---where we explore this point in detail.

And as I ask there - "IF there IS a great solution to this question in favor of Sabbath breaking - why is this not presented in full on Sundays so that all can be informed of it? Why aren't we all the saints told about the affirmation of the Ten Commandments by the "Baptist Confession of Faith" , the "Westminster Confession of Faith" - Matthew Henry , the Protestant Reformers -- and the Bible predicting that "From Sabbath to Sabbath shall ALL mankind come before Me to worship " -- and yet it still works out that Sabbath breaking is just fine. Why not give people that full picture of this elephant in the living room?

 

[BobRyan]

I agree. This Sabbath-keeping teaching seems to me to be a case of turning the Gospel back into Law. I cannot believe the entire counsel of God revolves around keeping the Sabbath as Saturday. To found an entire denomination on this seems far-fetched and legalistic, to me.

Under the New Covenant "I will write my LAW on their mind and on their heart" Heb 8... Jer 31:31-33

Rom 3:31 "Do we then make void the LAW of God by our faith? God forbid! In fact we establish the LAW of God"

the saints "KEEP the Commandments of God and their faith in Jesus" Rev 14:12

1 John 5:1-4
Whoever believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God, and everyone who loves Him who begot also loves him who is begotten of Him. 2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and keep His commandments. 3 For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome. 4 For whatever is born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world—our faith.

The "Good news" the "Gospel" was never about trashing the Law of God - the Commandments of God.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

When Paul is placed under oath - and gives sworn testimony what is his own claim about the LAW of God?

1 Cor 7:19 "what matters is keeping the Commandments of God"


[FONT=&quot]Acts 21
[FONT=&quot]24 take them and purify yourself along with them, and pay their expenses so that they may shave their heads; and all will know that there is nothing to the things which they have been told about you, but that you yourself also walk orderly, keeping the Law[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]Acts 24:[/FONT][FONT=&quot]
14But this I confess to you, that according to the Way which they call a sect, so I worship the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the Law and in the Prophets


Acts 25
8 while he answered for himself, “Neither against the law of the Jews, nor against the temple, nor against Caesar have I offended in anything at all.”

[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [FONT=&quot]Acts 26[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]22 Therefore, having obtained help from God, to this day I stand, witnessing both to small and great, saying no other things than those which the prophets and Moses said would come— 23 that the Christ would suffer, that He would be the first to rise from the dead, and would proclaim light to the Jewish people and to the Gentiles.”[/FONT]

Acts 28
17 And it came to pass after three days that Paul called the leaders of the Jews together. So when they had come together, he said to them: “Men and brethren, though I have done nothing against our people or the customs of our fathers, yet I was delivered as a prisoner from Jerusalem into the hands of the Romans,... I have called for you, to see you and speak with you, because for the hope of Israel I am bound with this chain.”
...
23 So when they had appointed him a day, many came to him at his lodging, to whom he explained and solemnly testified of the kingdom of God, persuading them concerning Jesus from both the Law of Moses and the Prophets, from morning till evening[/FONT][/FONT]

You are following the commandments of men.
First, you don't keep the Sabbath, at least not according to Scripture. That would be easy to prove.

Second, in the very examples you use, they condemn you, not excuse you.
For example, Paul went into the Temple and took a vow. You say he put himself under the law, as you do by keeping the Sabbath.
Okay--monkey see; monkey do:
.

In Acts 21 a false accusation is made against Paul and James comes up with a solution to that false accusation - and in the remainder of Acts Paul repeatedly testifies under oath - before gentile judges - exactly what his own teaching has been as noted in the quotes above.

But as for Acts 21 - notice 'what the Bible says' is the false accusation against Paul --

Acts 21
20 And when they heard it they began glorifying God; and they said to him, “You see, brother, how many thousands there are among the Jews of those who have believed, and they are all zealous for the Law; 21 and they have been told about you, that you are teaching all the Jews who are among the Gentiles to forsake Moses, telling them not to circumcise their children nor to walk according to the customs.

(Many on this board would be tempted to argue - "yeah... that is EXACTLY what Paul was doing!" - "and yet" -- Paul goes out of his way to disprove it.



22 What, then, is to be done? They will certainly hear that you have come.
23 Therefore do this that we tell you. We have four men who are under a vow;
24 take them and purify yourself along with them, and pay their expenses so that they may shave their heads; and all will know that there is nothing to the things which they have been told about you, but that you yourself also walk orderly, keeping the Law..

And those who want to just focus on one tiny verse in Acts 21 -- Acts 21:25 to the exclusion of the entire episode - find that there in that one tiny verse gentiles are not commandment to "Love God with all their heart" or to "love your neighbor as yourself" nor even "thou shalt not murder" ... none of that is in Acts 21:25. Since obviously Acts 21:25 is NOT the "tiny 1 verse Bible left for gentiles" - but rather shows the restrictions from OT food laws that need to be held up as reminders for Gentiles as new practice they might not be familiar with.

What we have quoted there is a restriction from Lev 17 about eating meat with blood in it.

Acts 21:25
25 But concerning the Gentiles who have believed, we wrote, having decided that they should abstain from meat sacrificed to idols and from blood and from what is strangled and from fornication.”
​

In the case of just two of the "missing commandments" from Acts 21 above - they are from Lev 19:18 and Deut 6:5 -- quoted by Christ, and Paul and James 2 in Lev 19 form -- but not in Acts 21:25 or in Acts 15... because those two are not trying to downsize/resize scripture at all - they allow for all of it.

 

[BobRyan]

You do understand that the Law was given to Israel, right? While Gentiles could proselytize, the Covenant of Law was given unto Israel.

Ex 20 starts off with God telling them that He is the one that freed them from Egypt. Then God tells them not to take His name in vain. Many Christians today would freely admit that "even gentiles" are not to take God's name in vain.

I show a great many evangelical sources on page one - that agree that the TEN Commandments are in fact the moral law of God applicable to all mankind.

And in Jer 31:31-33 (and also in Heb 8) the NEW Covenant is ALSO made just with Israel - just with the house of Israel and Judah.

Yet a great many Christians today would freely accept the fact that this applies to Christians.

Thus Paul can say "what matters is keeping the commandments of God" 1Cor 7:19

And in Is 66:23 "from Sabbath to Sabbath shall ALL MANKIND come before Me to worship"

in Christ,

Bob

 

[Darrell C]

Under the New Covenant "I will write my LAW on their mind and on their heart" Heb 8... Jer 31:31-33

Rom 3:31 "Do we then make void the LAW of God by our faith? God forbid! In fact we establish the LAW of God"

the saints "KEEP the Commandments of God and their faith in Jesus" Rev 14:12

1 John 5:1-4
Whoever believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God, and everyone who loves Him who begot also loves him who is begotten of Him. 2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and keep His commandments. 3 For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome. 4 For whatever is born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world—our faith.

The "Good news" the "Gospel" was never about trashing the Law of God - the Commandments of God.

in Christ,

Bob

The Good News is rather that the Law was never intended to carry an eternally salvific quality.

The Good News is that God gave us the ability to recognize that we were sinners, helpless to restore relationship with God by any means, and that God supplied the necessary remedy for our condition.

We have to distinguish between the Law (the Word of God) and the (Covenant of) Law.

While the Law of God is found in the Law of God, and certainly should have been a means capable of making one righteous, it is not the Law that saves us. It is the Gospel.

And obedience to the Gospel follows hearing the Word of God. The Law and the Covenant of Law, we are told, was intentionally lacking in direct revelation of the Gospel of Christ, and was temporal and physical. But the Word of God as we now have is complete in regards to remission of sin and reconciliation, and we see that the Economy of the Law has passed away to yield to the Economy of the New Testament and the revelation God has provided us today.

Let me ask you this, Bob, do you understand the significance of the Coming of the Comforter? Do you see the difference between that which was external and temporal and that which is Eternal and Spiritual?

You say...

The "Good news" the "Gospel" was never about trashing the Law of God - the Commandments of God.

...and I agree, however, that does not mean we are not commanded, all of us, to progress from the foundational principles of Christ in the Law to the completion Christ has wrought in regards to Eternal Redemption:


Hebrews 5:11-6:2

King James Version (KJV)

11 Of whom we have many things to say, and hard to be uttered, seeing ye are dull of hearing.

12 For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat.

13 For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe.

14 But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.

6 Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,

2 Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.


Hebrews 7:11-13

King James Version (KJV)

11 If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, (for under it the people received the law,) what further need was there that another priest should rise after the order of Melchisedec, and not be called after the order of Aaron?

12 For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law.

13 For he of whom these things are spoken pertaineth to another tribe, of which no man gave attendance at the altar.


Hebrews 9:15-17

King James Version (KJV)

15 And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.

16 For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.

17 For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.



Show me where there is Christian Doctrine supporting the keeping of the Sabbath. Show me how Christians are still under the Law?

In the story of the Rich Man and Lazarus, we see a difference in the Old and the New Economies:


Luke 16:28-30

King James Version (KJV)

28 For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment.

29 Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.

30 And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent.


We might think it strange that the Lord suggests that they have Moses and the Prophets to keep them from torment, but only if we ignore the fact that the Gospel was a Mystery not revealed in that time.

While I view Sabbath Keeping as error, I will also say that based on Paul's teachings we can also say we do not judge those who feel they have to keep the Sabbath. Usually such a view is accompanied by loss of salvation teachings, but that too will not keep one from being saved. Salvation is not about doctrinal flawlessness, because we are all usually born again pretty ignorant. But if we avoid over-use of books about the Bible, and stay in the Books of the Bible, I feel we will begin to understand the magnitude of Christ's Work, which makes the believer perfect in regards to remission of sins...


Hebrews 10:14

King James Version (KJV)

14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.


...forever.


God bless.

 

[BobRyan]

Secondly, when confronting the error of the Judaizers, a statement is made in regards to Gentile believers. Let's take a look first at what Paul confronted specifically:


Acts 15

King James Version (KJV)


.And certain men which came down from Judaea taught the brethren, and said, Except ye be circumcised after the manner of Moses, ye cannot be saved.


Now I ask you, can we expect Paul, who considered requiring circumcision (which predates the Law I would add, and am sure you are aware of) error, to know what he was talking about, right?

Peter makes a statement on the matter:


6 And the apostles and elders came together for to consider of this matter.

7 And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men and brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe.

8 And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us;

9 And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.

10 Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear?

11 But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they.

The issue in Acts 15 is that gentiles must be circumcised to be saved - this is not the case in the OT. In the OT "my house shall be called a house of prayer for ALL nations" - only Jews were required to be circumcised in the OT - but in the NT there were made-up man-made-traditions being added and this was one of them. That Gentiles could not be "Saved" unless they were circumcised.

So notice in Acts 15 'the solution' how is it that gentiles are not only saved but are first-class Christian citizens?

1 And certain men which came down from Judaea taught the brethren, and said, Except ye be circumcised after the manner of Moses, ye cannot be saved.
2 When therefore Paul and Barnabas had no small dissension and disputation with them, they determined that Paul and Barnabas, and certain other of them, should go up to Jerusalem unto the apostles and elders about this question.
...13 And after they had held their peace, James answered, saying, Men and brethren, hearken unto me:
14 Simeon hath declared how God at the first did visit the Gentiles, to take out of them a people for his name.
15 And to this agree the words of the prophets; as it is written,

16 After this I will return, and will build again the tabernacle of David, which is fallen down; and I will build again the ruins thereof, and I will set it up:
17 That the residue of men might seek after the Lord, and all the Gentiles, upon whom my name is called, saith the Lord, who doeth all these things.
18 Known unto God are all his works from the beginning of the world.
​

19 Wherefore my sentence is, that we trouble not them, which from among the Gentiles are turned to God:
20 But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood.
21 For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every Sabbath day.
22 Then pleased it the apostles and elders with the whole church, to send chosen men of their own company to Antioch with Paul and Barnabas; namely, Judas surnamed Barsabas and Silas, chief men among the brethren:





Jame's argues that just as we see gentiles in the synagogues every Sabbath in Acts 13 (And so also in Acts 17, Acts 18..) even so the Christians are also hearing scripture every Sabbath - whether they be circumcised or not so this matter is laid to rest.

20 But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood.


Do you think that it is even slightly possible that in making Sabbath keeping mandatory, you violate the intent of the conclusions drawn by Peter and James?

I don't think so given that James' argument rests on the fact he highlights that all Christians hear scripture every Sabbath in the synagogues whether they be circumcised or not.

And as we know for all eternity it is stated "from Sabbath to Sabbath shall all mankind come before Me to worship" Is 66:23 long after the cross in the New Heavens and New Earth - according to that text.

Christ said in Mark 2:27 "The Sabbath was MADE for MANKIND" and this is the same point made by many non-SDA authors even pro-Sunday authors on the first page of this thread, not the least of which is D.L. Moody admitting to it in Gen 2:1-3 , in Eden.

27 We have sent therefore Judas and Silas, who shall also tell you the same things by mouth.

28 For it seemed good to the Holy Ghost, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things;

29 That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication: from which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well. Fare ye well.


Not "...and if ye do these things ye shall stay saved," but, "Ye shall do well."

Which does not include "Love God with all your heart" Matt 22 or or "Love your neighbor as yourself" James 2, Matt 22. It was never intended to downsize scripture to a tiny 1-text Bible.

even as gentiles we have 66 books in our Bible.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

Rebel makes this observation - and gets the following answer in a post on another thread.

I think it deserves some focused attention -- it deals with the question of whether Sabbath breaking matters today.

After all we can ALL agree that if the TEN commandments are dead
- or if the Sabbath commandment can be bent to point to week-day-1,
- or if the Ten Commandments have been downsized to just NINE

then surely this issue of 7th day Sabbath breaking cannot become the mark of the Beast in the future that Rev 13 speaks of.

No sir, we cannot all agree that the Tem Commandments are dead, or that one has been chopped off, or that one must keep the Sabbath.

Are you then a Judaizer? A Jew?

I am under the NEW Covenant - made with the house of Israel and Judah.

Heb 8
He says: “Behold, the days are coming, says the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah— 9 not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they did not continue in My covenant, and I disregarded them, says the Lord. 10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put My laws in their mind and write them on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people.


Romans 2
25 For circumcision is indeed profitable if you keep the law; but if you are a breaker of the law, your circumcision has become uncircumcision. 26 Therefore, if an uncircumcised man keeps the righteous requirements of the law, will not his uncircumcision be counted as circumcision? 27 And will not the physically uncircumcised, if he fulfills the law, judge you who, even with your written code and circumcision, are a transgressor of the law? 28 For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly, nor is circumcision that which is outward in the flesh; 29 but he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the Spirit, not in the letter; whose praise is not from men but from God.

"Do we then make void the LAW of God by our faith? God forbid! In fact we establish the LAW of God" Rom 3:31

"If you LOVE Me Keep My commandments" John 14:15

Does this...


Romans 14

King James Version (KJV)

5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.

6 He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks.

show that the Law was but a shadow of those things that would come?

Romans 14 never mentions the weekly Sabbath at all.

It is talking about the annual holy days listed in Lev 23 where some "observe one day above another while another observes them all". As Paul was doing.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

...and this...


Colossians 2:16-17

King James Version (KJV)


16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:

17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.


...which, in at least the last passage, show that the Law was but a shadow of those things that would come?

Shadow laws dealt with shadows in animal sacrifices pointing forward to Christ's sacrifice.

In Col 2 - Paul does not void a single text of scripture - not does he declare the "end of eating" or the "end of drinking" or the "end of the Sabbath" -- rather HE condemns "making stuff up".

In Mark 7 they were "making stuff up" about sin getting on fingers then on wheat then inside the person who ate food without dipping fingers in baptism.

In Col 2 the same problem of their "making stuff up" is being addressed. It is not declaring the "end of eating and the end of the Sabbath". It is not the commandments of GOD that Paul is attacking - but rather the "Commandments of Men"

4 Now this I say lest anyone should deceive you with persuasive words.
16 So let no one judge you in food or in drink, or regarding a festival or a new moon or sabbaths, 17 which are a shadow of things to come, but the substance is of Christ. 18 Let no one cheat you of your reward, taking delight in false humility and worship of angels, intruding into those things which he has not seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind, 19 and not holding fast to the Head, from whom all the body, nourished and knit together by joints and ligaments, grows with the increase that is from God.
20 Therefore, if you died with Christ from the basic principles of the world, why, as though living in the world, do you subject yourselves to regulations— 21 “Do not touch, do not taste, do not handle,” 22 which all concern things which perish with the using—according to the commandments and doctrines of men?

This may help us understand why D.L. Moody and even the "Baptist Confession of Faith" continue to insist that the Sabbath Commandment remains. (Though they claim it is bent to point to week day 1 after the cross)

in Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

We see that here as well:


Hebrews 8:4-6

King James Version (KJV)

4 For if he were on earth, he should not be a priest, seeing that there are priests that offer gifts according to the law:

5 Who serve unto the example and shadow of heavenly things, as Moses was admonished of God when he was about to make the tabernacle: for, See, saith he, that thou make all things according to the pattern shewed to thee in the mount.

6 But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.


So the question I would pose is this, Bob, have you ever considered that in teaching Sabbath Keeping in accordance to the Law is not really any different than those who demanded circumcision according to the Law?

it is very different

Under the New Covenant "I will write my LAW on their mind and on their heart" Heb 8... Jer 31:31-33

the saints "KEEP the Commandments of God and their faith in Jesus" Rev 14:12

Rom 3:31 "Do we then make void the LAW of God by our faith? God forbid! In fact we establish the LAW of God"

the saints "KEEP the Commandments of God and their faith in Jesus" Rev 14:12

1 John 5:1-4
Whoever believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God, and everyone who loves Him who begot also loves him who is begotten of Him. 2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and keep His commandments. 3 For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome. 4 For whatever is born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world—our faith.

"from Sabbath to Sabbath shall all mankind come before Me to worship" Is 66:23

Thus Paul can say "what matters is keeping the commandments of God" 1Cor 7:19

And in Is 66:23 "from Sabbath to Sabbath shall ALL MANKIND come before Me to worship" in the NEW Heavens and New Earth for all eternity according to this scripture.

"If you LOVE Me Keep My commandments" John 14:15

Which is why the majority of even pro-sunday scholarship argues that the Ten Commandments are part of the moral law of God -- written on the heart under the New Covenant.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[Revmitchell]

Under the New Covenant "I will write my LAW on their mind and on their heart" Heb 8... Jer 31:31-33

Rom 3:31 "Do we then make void the LAW of God by our faith? God forbid! In fact we establish the LAW of God"

the saints "KEEP the Commandments of God and their faith in Jesus" Rev 14:12

1 John 5:1-4
Whoever believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God, and everyone who loves Him who begot also loves him who is begotten of Him. 2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and keep His commandments. 3 For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome. 4 For whatever is born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world—our faith.

The "Good news" the "Gospel" was never about trashing the Law of God - the Commandments of God.

in Christ,

Bob

Rom 3:20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
Rom 3:21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;
Col 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
Col 2:17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.
Rom_6:14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.
Rom_6:15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.
Rom_7:6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.
Rom_8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
Rom_9:31 But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness.
Rom_9:32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;
Gal_2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

 

[BobRyan]

Galatians 3:16-19

King James Version (KJV)

16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.

17 And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.

18 For if the inheritance be of the law, it is no more of promise: but God gave it to Abraham by promise.

19 Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.


It just seems to me to be a mingling of the Two quite distinct Covenants. And when we have clear Scripture that makes it clear that Gentiles are not under the Law, and that Jews are to progress to the New Covenant, isn't there at least a question at the back of your mind with this teaching?

you have a two-gospel model - one for OT saints and one for NT saints.

In Gal 1:6-9 Paul says that is wrong - there has always been only ONE Gospel.

Gal 3:7 that Gospel was "preached to Abraham"

Heb 4:1-2 that Gospel "was preached to US just as it was to THEM Also"

The idea that men were only to refrain from taking God's name in vain UNTIL Christ dies on the cross is not the teaching of the NT writers. They never argue against the Commandments of God - they always argue for them.

Not as a means of salvation - but as that which is written on the heart and mind under the New Covenant.

Hence the many many references in the NT to upholding the Commandments of God in my prior post.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

Rom 3:20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
Rom 3:21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;
Col 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:
Col 2:17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.
Rom_6:14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.
Rom_6:15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.
Rom_7:6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.
Rom_8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
Rom_9:31 But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness.
Rom_9:32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;
Gal_2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

The argument that the LAW of God - Law-keeping is not how the lost person becomes saved is not the dispute.

The argument is about the saved person and the LAW of God "written on the mind and heart" under the NEW Covenant - Jer 31:31-33 Heb 8 being the moral LAW of God - that includes the TEN Commandments --- a Bible detail so clear that both sides affirm it - both the majority of pro-sunday scholarship AND the Biblical-Sabbath groups affirm that same point.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[Revmitchell]

The argument that the LAW of God - Law-keeping is not how the lost person becomes saved is not the dispute.

The argument is about the saved person and the LAW of God "written on the mind and heart" under the NEW Covenant - Jer 31:31-33 Heb 8 being the moral LAW of God - that includes the TEN Commandments --- a Bible detail so clear that both sides affirm it - both the majority of pro-sunday scholarship AND the Biblical-Sabbath groups affirm that same point.

in Christ,

Bob

You cannot insist that we must worship on Sat because it is the law and then say what you posted here. Two completely different subjects.

 

[BobRyan]

And last of all...could somebody please explain to me what on earth failure to keep the Sabbath has to do with the Mark of the Beast?

God bless.

Good question -- so that was what I was trying to address in this post on page 1.

We find the subject of the mark of the beast first mentioned in Rev 13, then heavily referenced in Rev 14 in a warning to the world.

We find the Sabbath commandment spelled out in great detail in Ex 20 and it ends like this.

11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it

So does Rev 14 point us to Commandment keeping as the issue? To the Sabbath commandment focus??


Rev 14
6 Then I saw another angel flying in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach to those who dwell on the earth—to every nation, tribe, tongue, and people— 7 saying with a loud voice, “Fear God and give glory to Him, for the hour of His judgment has come; and worship Him who made heaven and earth, the sea and springs of water.”


Rev 14
12 Here is the patience of the saints; here are those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus.


=============================


Some will conclude from what is presented on this first page of this thread "That is IT! I don't know why I did not see that before - the Sabbath is still binding and it is every bit as important as all those Christian sources claim - but they are wrong to think it could be edited/changed - and it is being pointed out for us in Rev 14 in the chapter that warns against taking the mark of the Beast".

Others may dismiss it all saying "I don't see anything here - (these are not the droids nothing to see here ) move along"

We all have free will.

And so also this on page 1.

But some might say - "surely breaking one of God's Commandments is not something that matters that much to Christ -- so sacrifice in praise and worship -- better than to obey".

Let us test that theory out.

========================================

Bible texts both NT and OT about God's Commandments - Showing that the TEN Commandments are assigned the title "in scripture" as being "Commandments of God" -- and as also being "The Word of God"

10 Commandments are –
“Commandments of God” Neh 10:29
“Law of God” Neh 10:29
“Word of God” Mark 7:13
“Commandment of God” Mark 7:6-13
NT “Scripture” James 2:8
NT “Law” – James 2:9-11
NT Commandments Eph 6:2, Rom 13:9, Romans 7:7-10


=========================

Christ's thinking on the subject of breaking one of God's Commandments by claiming to bend-edit slightly-modify one of them.


Mark 7

7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.
8 For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.
9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.
10 For Moses said, Honour thy father and thy mother; and, Whoso curseth father or mother, let him die the death:
11 But ye say, If a man shall say to his father or mother, It is Corban, that is to say, a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me; he shall be free.
12 And ye suffer him no more to do ought for his father or his mother;
13 Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.

That is a case of Christ demonstrating the way that the magisterium is hammered "sola scriptura" in the cases where it's traditions and "doctrines of men" are at odds with scripture.

[FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot]The elders consisting of scrib[FONT=&quot]es and ph[FONT=&quot]arise[FONT=&quot]es [/FONT]are in fact the "magisterium" even Paul admits to this. And Jesus shows how they claim to "sit in the chair of Moses" as church magisterium[FONT=&quot].[/FONT][/FONT][/FONT]
Then Jesus spoke to the crowds and to his disciples, saying, “The scribes and the Pharisees have taken their seat on the chair of Moses. Therefore, do and observe all things whatsoever they tell you, but do not follow their example. For they preach but they do not practice. (Matthew 23:1-3)

[FONT=&quot]=============================

[FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot]Notice that [FONT=&quot]Christ points us to the fact that it voids[FONT=&quot]/[FONT=&quot]negates/ worship[FONT=&quot]. And in Rev 14 i[FONT=&quot]t[/FONT] is the "matter of wor[FONT=&quot]ship" that is being [FONT=&quot]warned about.[/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT][/FONT]
[/FONT][/FONT][/FONT]

 

[BobRyan]

The argument that the LAW of God - Law-keeping is not how the lost person becomes saved is not the dispute.

The argument is about the saved person and the LAW of God "written on the mind and heart" under the NEW Covenant - Jer 31:31-33 Heb 8 being the moral LAW of God - that includes the TEN Commandments --- a Bible detail so clear that both sides affirm it - both the majority of pro-sunday scholarship AND the Biblical-Sabbath groups affirm that same point.

You cannot insist that we must worship on Sat because it is the law and then say what you posted here. Two completely different subjects.

Ok I'll bite. Tell me how the Law of God written on the heart means we need to break His Ten Commandments to show that His LAW is written on the heart as born-again believers.

I think you will agree that D.L. Moody could not see that point, nor C.H. Spurgeon nor the Presbyterians in their Westminster Confession of Faith - so a great many Christian groups could benefit from getting that idea fleshed out.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[Darrell C]

Originally Posted by BobRyan View Post
Rebel makes this observation - and gets the following answer in a post on another thread.

I think it deserves some focused attention -- it deals with the question of whether Sabbath breaking matters today.

After all we can ALL agree that if the TEN commandments are dead
- or if the Sabbath commandment can be bent to point to week-day-1,
- or if the Ten Commandments have been downsized to just NINE

then surely this issue of 7th day Sabbath breaking cannot become the mark of the Beast in the future that Rev 13 speaks of.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darrell C View Post
No sir, we cannot all agree that the Tem Commandments are dead, or that one has been chopped off, or that one must keep the Sabbath.

Are you then a Judaizer? A Jew?

I am under the NEW Covenant - made with the house of Israel and Judah.

Heb 8
He says: “Behold, the days are coming, says the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah— 9 not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they did not continue in My covenant, and I disregarded them, says the Lord. 10For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put My laws in their mind and write them on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people.

Sorry, but the New Covenant does not revolve around Israel and Judah:


Galatians 3:13-17

King James Version (KJV)

13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:

14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

15 Brethren, I speak after the manner of men; Though it be but a man's covenant, yet if it be confirmed, no man disannulleth, or addeth thereto.

16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.

17 And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.


Consider:


Genesis 12:2-3

King James Version (KJV)

2 And I will make of thee a great nation, and I will bless thee, and make thy name great; and thou shalt be a blessing:

3 And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed.


God has always intended to redeem all men, not just Israel and Judah.

It is because Israel was so entrenched in the Law that they rejected Christ. The Writer of Hebrews rebukes them often on this point.

Romans 2
25 For circumcision is indeed profitable if you keep the law; but if you are a breaker of the law, your circumcision has become uncircumcision. 26 Therefore, if an uncircumcised man keeps the righteous requirements of the law, will not his uncircumcision be counted as circumcision? 27 And will not the physically uncircumcised, if he fulfills the law, judge you who, even with your written code and circumcision, are a transgressor of the law? 28 For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly, nor is circumcision that which is outward in the flesh; 29 but he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the Spirit, not in the letter; whose praise is not from men but from God.

Your point? This makes it clear that circumcision according to the Law has no bearing on the reality of being in obedience to God.

"Do we then make void the LAW of God by our faith? God forbid! In fact we establish the LAW of God" Rom 3:31

And how do we do that which the Hebrew people failed to do?


Ezekiel 36:27

King James Version (KJV)

27 And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.


Now look back up at Galatians 3:14. You could also, if you have time, take a look at Paul's point, well, I'll just post it:


Galatians 3

King James Version (KJV)

1 O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you?

2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?

"If you LOVE Me Keep My commandments" John 14:15

And what are His commandments?

John tells me...


1 John 5:2-4

King James Version (KJV)

2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.

3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

4 For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.


Here is the beginning of keeping the commandments of Christ:


John 3:7

King James Version (KJV)

7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.


Who under the Covenant of Law was born again, Bob?

Here's another one:


John 15

King James Version (KJV)

4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.

5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.


Which of Christ's disciples obeyed this command, Bob?

I would suggest they couldn't, not until after they obeyed this one:


Acts 1:4-5

King James Version (KJV)

4 And, being assembled together with them, commanded them that they should not depart from Jerusalem, but wait for the promise of the Father, which, saith he, ye have heard of me.

5 For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence.


Noticing any familiar themes here?

Quote:

Does this...


Romans 14

King James Version (KJV)

5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.

6 He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks.

show that the Law was but a shadow of those things that would come?

Romans 14 never mentions the weekly Sabbath at all.

So the Sabbath was not a holy day?

All Holy Days are covered here, Bob.

It is talking about the annual holy days listed in Lev 23 where some "observe one day above another while another observes them all". As Paul was doing.

in Christ,

Bob

Oh, so they can keep the Law by keeping the weekly Sabbath but the annual Holy Days are of no consequence any longer, right?

Come on, Bob.


God bless.

 

[Darrell C]

Good question -- so that was what I was trying to address in this post on page 1.



And so also this on page 1.

Sorry, I just don't see a correlation to the Mark of the Beast.


God bless.

 

[Darrell C]

Originally Posted by Darrell C


Galatians 3:16-19

King James Version (KJV)

16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.

17 And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.

18 For if the inheritance be of the law, it is no more of promise: but God gave it to Abraham by promise.

19 Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.


It just seems to me to be a mingling of the Two quite distinct Covenants. And when we have clear Scripture that makes it clear that Gentiles are not under the Law, and that Jews are to progress to the New Covenant, isn't there at least a question at the back of your mind with this teaching?

you have a two-gospel model - one for OT saints and one for NT saints.

No, Bob, I have the One Gospel of the Word of God.

The Old Testament Saints did not receive the revealed Gospel of Christ, that was not revealed in the Old Testament, And when even the Lord alluded to it...it was rejected by His own disciples:


Matthew 16:20-23

King James Version (KJV)

20 Then charged he his disciples that they should tell no man that he was Jesus the Christ.

21 From that time forth began Jesus to shew unto his disciples, how that he must go unto Jerusalem, and suffer many things of the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and be raised again the third day.

22 Then Peter took him, and began to rebuke him, saying, Be it far from thee, Lord: this shall not be unto thee.

23 But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men.


If you would like to discuss this in detail let me know. But what you are not going to do is show anyone that understands the Gospel of Christ in the Old Testament, and I view the Lord's Ministry to be a part of the Old Testament Economy.

Unless you think the Lord meant to imply that He was not come to take away the sins of the whole world in saying...


Matthew 10:5-7

King James Version (KJV)

5 These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not:

6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

7 And as ye go, preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand.


Matthew 15:23-24

King James Version (KJV)

23 But he answered her not a word. And his disciples came and besought him, saying, Send her away; for she crieth after us.

24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.




Was the Lord denying His purpose in coming? No, He was simply working within the framework of the revelation provided to men in that day.

In Gal 1:6-9 Paul says that is wrong - there has always been only ONE Gospel.

Your premise is in error.

I preach the One Gospel of Jesus Christ.

Gal 3:7 that Gospel was "preached to Abraham"

It is true that God's Redemptive Plan is seen in the Abrahamic Covenant, and in fact Paul points out that the Covenant of Law did not nullify the promises of God, but have you stopped to consider that this only shows that the Law...was temporary and given only...

...until Christ came?

This is New Testament revelation speaking directly to the issue:


Romans 16:24-26

King James Version (KJV)

24 The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you all. Amen.

25 Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,

26 But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:

So what we can conclude is that while the "gospel" was preached before, we do not impose the fully revealed Gospel of Christ before it is actually given.

If you think about that you will see it is the reason we can reconcile the actions of the disciples when they abandoned Him, Denied knowing Him, and in fact tried to keep Christ from the Cross:


John 18:10-12

King James Version (KJV)

10 Then Simon Peter having a sword drew it, and smote the high priest's servant, and cut off his right ear. The servant's name was Malchus.

11 Then said Jesus unto Peter, Put up thy sword into the sheath: the cup which my Father hath given me, shall I not drink it?

12 Then the band and the captain and officers of the Jews took Jesus, and bound him,


The Lord knew Peter's heart, and that Peter looked for the Christ that was revealed in the Old Testament.

Heb 4:1-2 that Gospel "was preached to US just as it was to THEM Also"

So point it out.

Show me where Christ is revealed in the Law to the Children of Israel who in large part were unbelievers and without faith.

You can't even do that in the Gospels.

And I don't mean the shadow, I mean the reality. The True.

They had Manna in the Old Testament, we have the True Bread in the New.

And again, Christ's teaching was simply not understood:


John 6:65-66

King James Version (KJV)

65 And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.

66 From that time many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him.


Incidentally, some think John 6:66 is the Number of the Beast.

The idea that men were only to refrain from taking God's name in vain UNTIL Christ dies on the cross is not the teaching of the NT writers. They never argue against the Commandments of God - they always argue for them.

Agreed, but now we do so with an understanding of the Law in light of our understanding of our condition as compared to the Holiness of God.

Those under the Law could not keep the Law:


Hebrews 8:7-9

King James Version (KJV)

7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.

8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:

9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.


Now another Mystery concerning the Gospel in regards to Israel is that of Gentile Inclusion:


Colossians 1:25-27

King James Version (KJV)

25 Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God;

26 Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints:

27 To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:


We just cannot understand the Mystery if we do not recognize it is Mystery...

Not as a means of salvation - but as that which is written on the heart and mind under the New Covenant.

And that is one very important distinction.

And nowhere do we see commandment to observe the Sabbath, but in fact we are told not to judge any man concerning any holy day. You can exclude the weekly Sabbath if you like, and I will not judge you for that, but clearly if there was going to be such a yoke placed on Gentiles we would have it in Acts 15.

Of course, if it were there, we would also likely have Paul correcting Peter or James about that...

Hence the many many references in the NT to upholding the Commandments of God in my prior post.

in Christ,

Bob

There is a difference between upholding, establishing the Law of God, but an entirely different issue to bring people under the yoke of bondage under the Covenant of Law.


Hebrews 8:13

King James Version (KJV)

13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.


God bless.

 

[Darrell C]

Shadow laws dealt with shadows in animal sacrifices pointing forward to Christ's sacrifice.

in Christ,

Bob

That was the Economy of the Covenant of Law.

You are saying that you have to keep part of the Law only, and you would likely have been excommunicated if you had skipped this aspect of Law.

it is very different

Under the New Covenant "I will write my LAW on their mind and on their heart" Heb 8... Jer 31:31-33

the saints "KEEP the Commandments of God and their faith in Jesus" Rev 14:12

Rom 3:31 "Do we then make void the LAW of God by our faith? God forbid! In fact we establish the LAW of God"

the saints "KEEP the Commandments of God and their faith in Jesus" Rev 14:12

1 John 5:1-4
Whoever believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God, and everyone who loves Him who begot also loves him who is begotten of Him. 2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and keep His commandments. 3 For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome. 4 For whatever is born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world—our faith.

"from Sabbath to Sabbath shall all mankind come before Me to worship" Is 66:23

Thus Paul can say "what matters is keeping the commandments of God" 1Cor 7:19

And in Is 66:23 "from Sabbath to Sabbath shall ALL MANKIND come before Me to worship" in the NEW Heavens and New Earth for all eternity according to this scripture.

"If you LOVE Me Keep My commandments" John 14:15

Which is why the majority of even pro-sunday scholarship argues that the Ten Commandments are part of the moral law of God -- written on the heart under the New Covenant.

in Christ,

Bob

It is very different, lol.

Do you see you have no New Testament passages to support keeping the weekly Sabbath? Not one?

And let's look at this with v.5 thrown in:


1 John 5:1-5

King James Version (KJV)

1 Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him.

2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.

3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

4 For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.

5 Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?


The context is about regeneration, and that is how we overcome. When we believe on Christ and are born again.

Nothing whatsoever about Keeping the First Covenant (Covenant of Law) or the Sabbath.

And out of time, so catch you later.

One last question: since you see me as teaching a false gospel, does this mean we aren't friends anymore?


God bless.

 

[BobRyan]

I am under the NEW Covenant - made with the house of Israel and Judah.

Heb 8
He says: “Behold, the days are coming, says the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah— 9 not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they did not continue in My covenant, and I disregarded them, says the Lord. 10For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put My laws in their mind and write them on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people.


Romans 2
25 For circumcision is indeed profitable if you keep the law; but if you are a breaker of the law, your circumcision has become uncircumcision. 26 Therefore, if an uncircumcised man keeps the righteous requirements of the law, will not his uncircumcision be counted as circumcision? 27 And will not the physically uncircumcised, if he fulfills the law, judge you who, even with your written code and circumcision, are a transgressor of the law? 28 For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly, nor is circumcision that which is outward in the flesh; 29 but he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the Spirit, not in the letter; whose praise is not from men but from God.

"Do we then make void the LAW of God by our faith? God forbid! In fact we establish the LAW of God" Rom 3:31

"If you LOVE Me Keep My commandments" John 14:15

Sorry, but the New Covenant does not revolve around Israel and Judah:

Can you say that while quoting the New Covenant?

Heb 8
He says: “Behold, the days are coming, says the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah— 9 not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they did not continue in My covenant, and I disregarded them, says the Lord. 10For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put My laws in their mind and write them on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people.


My point is that all the saints are considered in that same statement as Romans 2 confirms for who is a real Jew.

in the same way that "do not take God's name in vain" in Ex 20 is not just restricted to literal Jews which is why even the pro-sunday sources on page one of this thread are affirming the Ten Commandments binding on all the saints in all of time.

in Christ,

Bob