Salvation and sin

How were you able to decide that adultery was the single act of 1 John 5 as the "sin unto death" and not say "anger"?

 

This part is foolish, if a man never "turns" or repents of his sins, hell will be his home.

It is also foolish, to suggest there will be bragging in Heaven.

You believe in a God that is so powerful that He can forgive your sins, but you seem to believe that He is not powerful enough to keep you then. Amazing
How do you tell the church from the world, or can you?


BBob,

 

It is just one of the many sin unto death.

Adultery

worshipping Idols

coveting another man's wife

lying

stealing

killing

and on and on.

You get the point, they are all singular but in and of themselves without repentance brings death.

Also, if you are guilty of one, then you become guilty of all.

Any sin, that will send you to hell, is a sin unto death.

The soul that sinneth shall die, it also is unto death.

When we come to know God and Glorify Him not as God, then we sin, and its unto death also, called the second death. To escape it, you must repent and have the blood of Christ applied to your soul. If you do it again, there will be no more sacrifice for you, but I do not believe you can do it again, for we are kept by the power of God.

BBob,

 

The rich man went there for uncompassion. I guess you missed that one. Really only thing we have to go by.

I hate to be so gross, but if I understand your theology right. A man could be in the very act of raping a 4 year old girl, of which was on the news tonight. He could be raping her when Jesus comes and get up and go to Heaven, is that right. I don't want to misrepresent you.

Sounds like how Moses found the children of Israel, when he came down off the mount.



From KTLA.com:

Rancho Santa Margarita woman facing up to 109 years in prison for helping her boyfriend videotape sexual assaults on her 4-year-old niece told a judge she deserved to be punished for her actions, even though her sister -- and mother of the victim -- asked for leniency.​

BBob,

 

1. BBob, the Bible doesn't say that. Let me quote what the Bible says:

"If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it.

All unrighteousness is sin: and there is a sin not unto death" ( 1 John 5:16, 17, KJV, emphasis mine).

2. Where in the Bible does it say that the "sin unto death" is one of the many sins you have outlined below?

3. According to your reasoning then, any sin a believer commits can lead him to hell?

The soul that sinneth shall die, it also is unto death.

4. So then, you are making a distinction among believers?

 

Yes, I believe the scripture that speaks if you put God to an open shame, to renew him unto repentance again is impossible, is telling us how impossible it is for a Christian to commit such an act.

Any of the sins I listed, if it were possible for a Christian to commit, there will be no more sacrifice. Therefore, that is why I believe the scripture is teaching us how impossible for a Christian to commit them.

It would be hard to deny that adultery is a sin that is unto death, if not repented of, and if a Christian should commit such an act, which I believe to be impossible, then there would be no more sacrifice.

There are false brethren who have came in unawares, to seek out our liberty. I believe this is who commits those acts while members of a church somewhere, not true Christians, who are kept by the power of God. These false brethren, are not kept by the power of God.

BBob,

 

BBob,

Do genuine Christians lie?

 

Not if God has declared them Justified by Christ's blood..

The only sin that sends a person to Hell is rejecting Jesus.

To say that a person must repent constantly is works...
And that is not eternal security.. it is not Grace... and it is not the Gospel of Paul or the Bible...

It is a damnable doctrine of works that will damn a soul to hell.

Anyone that preaches anything other than the total Grace of God, is not preaching the true Gospel...

We are saved by Grace... NOT WORKS.. not constantly keeping ourselves clean... God has already cleansed us, and declared us JUST.

Justification is a one time, legal term that balances our account.
We are justified at the point of salvation, and will be justified throughout all eternity.

 

I saw you refuse to debate with charles anymore over this very question.

I will speak for myself. This last week another church had a problem, the Pastor of that church told them to ask Brother Bob about the issue and he would assure them that it would be the truth. In my entire Christian life, I have made it a point to not lie. As far as I honestly know, I have kept that point, so no, I do not lie. I find it hard to believe that a person can not keep from lying. There is such a thing as keeping your mouth shut, when in a tight spot, or simply refusing to give an answer. If this is where you leave me, then it has been a pleasure and I have great respect for you. I can only answer for myself and I know that my God is watching me right now, so God Bless,

BBob,

 

A lie is a sin unto death. Annanias and Sapphira lied, and God killed them. That is a sin unto death.
Not properly observing the Lord’s Table is a sin unto death. The Corinthians were guilty of that. See 1Cor.11:30. God killed some of them for that sin.
Any sin can be a sin unto death. What makes you think that you have an inside look on the mind of God as to what is a sin unto death and what is not. The sin unto death results in physical death, and in no way has anything to do with Hell. If you have lied during your Christian life you have committed a sin unto death. So what makes you think that you haven’t committed such a sin? Your self-righteousness may be a sin unto death. Only God knows. All sin is equal in God’s eyes. Therefore all sins are sins unto death. The Bible teaches that. The wages of sin is death. “And sin when it is finished bringeth forth death.”

They still remained God’s children. They still remained Israelites. God, in no way, cast them out of his family. Notice they suffered a physical death. That is the definition of a sin unto death—a physical death. God took them out of this world before their scheduled time. So it is in the NT. But God never cast them out of his family. God never sent them to Hell.

1. He keeps me by grace. That is true.
2. He makes a way that I may escape from temptation or testing. That is true.
3. His grace is sufficient for me. That is true.
4. “The steps of a good men are ordered by the Lord.” (a quote from Psalms)
5. “and that is not unto perdition” A false conclusion and false doctrine. It has nothing to do with the verse from Psalms. The steps of a “good man” (believer) cannot lead to perdition. That is impossible. The believer has eternal life. He is eternally secured in the hand of the Lord. He cannot fall into perdition. Do you believe in a gospel of works or grace? It sounds like works which is another gospel, which Paul said is accursed.

6. Do you believe that God has the power to stop you from incest?
The question is moot. It is irrelevant. Do you believe God has the power to make you a robot, an automaton? Did he? Is that what you are? Simply a machine with no will—forced to do the will of the Father with no will of your own?
Any believer is capable of doing any sin. All believers have a sin nature that they struggle with even as Paul struggled with his (See Romans 7).
God gave us a will to choose to do good and evil—even as a Christian. The Christian brother at Corinth (1Cor.5) committed incest, and yet was forgiven. He had eternal life, and there is no reason not to believe that he will be in heaven. God did not make us robots. God did not take away our wills—even to commit evil.

No, God does not keep you from evil. He makes no such promise. As you previously said: He makes a way to escape. But he doesn’t force you to take it. He doesn’t force you to do good. You have to choose that route yourself. God has not made you a robot and forces you to do good. You choose of your own volition whether you want to lie or murder or commit adultery—all of which are possible by you or any other Christian. They will not take away their salvation but will affect their fellowship with God.

My salvation is kept by the power of God. There is no promise in the Bible that says that God will keep me from sin. In fact the Bible says that the one who says he does not sin deceives himself and the truth is not in him (1John 1:8).

Provide your list of sins unto death—something that you have never done. There is no such thing. This is just a “get out of ‘hell’ free card” that you use for your convenient theology which is totally unbiblical and denies the sufficiency of the blood of Christ. It says that the blood of Christ is not sufficient to forgive all sins!! But rather can only forgive the sins that you alone choose. What arrogance!!
I understand the great power of God, but I don’t understand the great power of Bob to decide for God which sins he may or may not forgive.
God has forgiven me all my sins: past, present, and future. I will never lose my salvation.
And perchance I fall into great sin, I will lose fellowship with God, but never my salvation. I am born into God’s family and cannot be unborn.

 

Only because we are kept by the power of God. "Father, I have lost none, saving the son of perdition". Shows He keeps us.

I do not say that. I say his blood cleanses us from all sin and we are saved by His Grace and also, Kept by His Grace. I believe His strength in keeping me is just as strong as His strength in saving me. We sin as Christians, but not the sins of perdition.

As James says, You show me your faith without your works and I will show you mine by my works, for faith without works is "dead". You can't get to Heaven on a "dead" faith.

BBob,

 

That is quite correct. I am saved. All my sins: past, present, and future are all under the blood. No matter what sin I commit it is under the blood. I will never lose my salvation, never. There is therefore now no condemnation to them that are in Christ Jesus—none.
However, having said that, Christianity is not a license to sin.

Who says they don’t. The Christian brother in 1Cor.5 did. Do you deny the Scriptures?
A Christian is capable to commit any sin, simply because he has a sin nature. No Christian is immune to sin.

His grace does not necessarily keep you from all sin. That promise is never given in the Bible. The Bible says in Rom.6:11 “Likewise reckon yourselves indeed to be dead unto sin.” That takes work on your part. It is a decision that you have to make every day. “To reckon yourself—Consider yourself. It is an active decision that you must make. God isn’t going to do it for you. Our salvation is kept by His grace. That doesn’t make us sinless. It doesn’t even keep us from “the big sins,” so to speak. But there really aren’t any. All sins are the same in God’s sight.

1. It is not possible for a Christian to fall back into perdition. You seem to have a lack of understanding of salvation. Believers are eternally secured. No believer will ever go to hell.
2. All believers have a sin nature, and therefore every believer (including yourself) is able to commit any sin, even very wicked sins. The self-righteous Pharisees thought the same way that you did. Read Mat.23 to see what Jesus thought about them.
3. Jesus dwells inside of you, and so does your old nature. And they war one against the other. If you give into your old sin nature you will sin—even to the extent of committing adultery. That does not condemn you to Hell however.

No, that is your belief. You are the one that believes that a Christian can lose his salvation if he commits adultery and does not repent before he dies. The Bible teaches no such thing. Thus you believe that the blood is not sufficient enough to cover all our sins.

1. We are speaking of believers, not unbelievers. Thus hell will not be his home. Believers do not go to hell. Do you believe in eternal security? It appears not.
2. Any person who believes that a believer will get to heaven by repenting of a certain sin after salvation believes in salvation of works, and thus are able to boast of their salvation in heaven. Eph.2:8,9 is true.
3. God never, never promised to keep you sinless. Wherever did you get that foolish doctrine from. Prove it from Scripture.
4. How do you explain to your church that they can be sinless when they know in their hearts that they can’t. Amazing!!

 

BBob, I respect you too. I believe you love the Lord.

But according to your theology, I would not be a genuine Christian, because I still struggle with sin, including occasional lying, which I'm not proud of.

But I'm not judged on my performance, for Christ has paid for all of my sins in full, past, present and future.

So there's really no need for me to debate this issue anymore.

At some point, It becomes pointless.

 

I agree... I must be a lost person too...
So, I won't discuss this anymore with those who think they cannot sin.

I know the word abides in me... and because it does it humbles me enough to admit I sin... And this is my last word on the subject...
This is from my sermon this coming Sunday...


"1 John 1:10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us."



If the Word is in us, we will be humble and honest enough to admit we sin.
But I guess John must not have been saved, because he included himself with his usage of the pronouns "us" and "we"

 

Perchance you fall into a great sin, I am sorry for you.

I notice you did not answer the question of whether what was on the news this evening applies to a Christian, that a man could be in the very act of raping a 4 year old little girl and the Lord come while he was committing the act, will he get up and go to Heaven??

Shoot, if I believed it, I would say it. Thank God I do not believe such hogwash and false doctrine and fables.

BBob,

 

You make a lie, when you say we say we cannot sin. We say we do not sin unto death, or draw back unto perdition.

Those scripture were not put in the Bible to take up space and if it were as you say, no matter if you sin, you remain the same, then no need for many many scripture from Jesus and Paul and others.

BBob,

 

I can understand when someone will not debate with those who advocate worshipping the devil, sinning, living a lavisheous life style and stil call themselves Christians, to not debate them. I saw where many were banned for advocating a doctrine which goes against Baptist principles.

What I do not understand, if a man spends his life serving the Lord and living as close to him as God will give him the power to do. One who claims to not commit such sins, that would bring death, but yet admits to being a sinner, to refuse to debate such a one, is astonishing. You don't have to agree with me, but to condemn me because I do live a close Christian life, is an offense to me and I am sure to God. All our churches believe as I do and that is why we can rejoice in our meetings, for we know as Jesus said, unless you suffer with Him, you shall not reign with him.

 

BBob, I've been exchaning PMs with you, trying to resolve this whole issue of me not willing to debate this subject any longer, but you have decided to make an issue out of it.

Here's the grind: According to your theology, my salvation is at stake, because I do commit that occasional lie.

You believe a Christian does not lie, so then what am I if I lie?

You said that since you became a Christian you have never lied.

I wish not to boast about my own self-righteousness and that is why my salvation is dependent on Christ from start to finish.

Rev 21:8 says that all liars will be thrown into the lake of fire. Now get this: there's a difference between a person who tells an occasional lie and a person who is a compulsive liar.

The compulsive liar is what Rev 21:8 has in mind.

 

In the first place where did you get your information that Rev, speaks of a compulsive liar. I believe it say, "them that maketh a lie", singular but not sure, I will check.

No, I don't wish to make this an issue, you are the one who does, even making it known you have pmed me to try and settle this. There is nothing to settle. You will debate on the condition that I say "I am a liar", well If I did say that, then that would make me one. Being you brought up the pm, what did you say about the man raping a 4 year old and the Lord comes and he claims to be a Christian, will he arise and go to heaven. According to you all there is no difference in sin.

Whether you admit it or not, to say that all your future sins are covered regardless of what kind of sin you commit, by the blood of the Lamb is a "ticket to sin". Only thing is, if you are saved all your sins are under the blood, it is just that you do not commit those terrible sins of perdition anymore. Yes, Your sins are covered, but you are not allowed to commit sin unto perdition. Paul said we are not of them who draw back to perdition.

Someone said, how does God do that, put a "force field" around you. If you sin, God has to "allow" it, All God does for His children, is to not Allow those sins of perdition anymore. He is God, He can do that. Now, if we were keeping ourselves, then it would be as you say, we would fall, but we do not keep ourselves, we are kept by the power of God.

BBob,

 

I'm sorry you saw the need to reveal the contents of our PMs. I simply made reference to the fact.

You have a God-blessed night.