Salvation and sin

[Brother Bob]

I'm sorry you saw the need to reveal the contents of our PMs. I simply made reference to the fact.

You have a God-blessed night.

You brought up the PMs.

You have a Blessed night also,

BBob,

 

[DHK]

Someone said, how does God do that, put a "force field" around you. If you sin, God has to "allow" it,

You are saying that if we sin, God has allowed it, therefore it is God's fault if we sinned. You blame God for man's sin.

 

[Brother Bob]

You are saying that if we sin, God has allowed it, therefore it is God's fault if we sinned. You blame God for man's sin.

God allowed Satan to have his way with Job. I am just giving what the scripture says. God don't cause it, but He is in control and if he does not allow it to happen, it will not.

BBob,

 

[DHK]

God allowed Satan to have his way with Job. I am just giving what the scripture says. God don't cause it, but He is in control and if he does not allow it to happen, it will not.

BBob,

That is not true Bob. Job was afflicted by Satan, and that God allowed. The Scripture says about that situation, that in all that "Job sinned not." There is no comparison. You have taken Scripture out of context again!

You (as in all of us) sin because you want to. We make the decision to sin, not God, not Satan. To say that God makes us sin is blasphemous. You ought to know better than to blame God for your sin. Some people blame the devil for their sin. A lot of Charismatics do that. It is not Biblical Bob. It relieves us of our own responsibility. We are responsible for our own sins. If you commit adultery, then you and you alone are are responsible.

When David committed Adultery he didn't blame Bathsheba, God or the Devil. He admitted his own guilt before God. He took responsibility. We alone are responsible for our own sins.

 

[Brother Bob]

That is not true Bob. Job was afflicted by Satan, and that God allowed. The Scripture says about that situation, that in all that "Job sinned not." There is no comparison. You have taken Scripture out of context again!

You (as in all of us) sin because you want to. We make the decision to sin, not God, not Satan. To say that God makes us sin is blasphemous. You ought to know better than to blame God for your sin. Some people blame the devil for their sin. A lot of Charismatics do that. It is not Biblical Bob. It relieves us of our own responsibility. We are responsible for our own sins. If you commit adultery, then you and you alone are are responsible.

When David committed Adultery he didn't blame Bathsheba, God or the Devil. He admitted his own guilt before God. He took responsibility. We alone are responsible for our own sins.

Why sir, do you make false statements like this, please tell me. You do it all the time. Don't put words in my mouth.

Again, If God allows it to happen, then it can happen. If God does not allow it to happen, then it does not happen.

God create evil?
At first it might seem that if God created all things then evil must have been created by God. However, there is an assumption here that needs to be cleared up. Evil is not a "thing" - like a rock or electricity. You can't have a jar of evil! Rather, evil is something that occurs, like running. Evil has no existence of its own - it is really a lack in a good thing. For example, holes are real but they only exist in something else. We call the absence of dirt a hole - but it cannot be separated from the dirt. So when God created, it is true that all that existed was good. One of the good things that God made was creatures who had the freedom to choose good. In order to have a real choice, God had to allow there to be something besides good to choose. So God allowed humans to choose good or non-good (evil). When a bad relationship exists between two good things we call that evil, but it does not become a "thing" that required God to create it.

Speak your own words and quit making up stuff and saying it is what I said. You have done it over and over and over. I know you know you are doing also. Quit and debate fair.

God had to allow His son to die, He could of not allowed it and we would still be in our sins. Stop with the putting words in my mouth.

BBob,

 

[charles_creech78]

Pr 16:4 The LORD hath made all things for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of EVIL.

 

[DHK]

Why sir, do you make false statements like this, please tell me. You do it all the time. Don't put words in my mouth.

How have I misrpresented you or put words in your mouth.

Again, If God allows it to happen, then it can happen. If God does not allow it to happen, then it does not happen.

God allows you to sin. He doesn't force you to sin. You choose to sin. He doesn't keep you from sin, and He won't keep you from sin. That must be a deliberate choice on your part. That is why Paul said:

Galatians 2:20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

Paul made choices in his life; deliberate choices that God allowed him to make. He could have lived for the flesh or for Christ. It was his choice. God allowed him to choose. He didn't force him to do anything. He had the will to do so. Therefore Paul could say: "I am crucified with Christ." He had made that decision. "And the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God who loved me and gave Himself for me.
"I live by the faith" he said. It was his choice.

It was Ahab's choice to serve Baal.
He had no one else to blame but himself.
We all will give account of ourselves before God. God does not make choices for us.

 

[Brother Bob]

Bedtime............:sleeping_2:

BBob,

 

[tinytim]

I will speak for myself. This last week another church had a problem, the Pastor of that church told them to ask Brother Bob about the issue and he would assure them that it would be the truth. In my entire Christian life, I have made it a point to not lie. As far as I honestly know, I have kept that point, so no, I do not lie. ,

One last note before I go....

Since you don't lie, you are going to love me for this!!! :laugh:

Have you watched the new game show, The Moment of Truth...
It is new on Fox.. where all you have to win $500,000 is answer 21 questions truthfully....

Here is a link to sign up... http://www.fox.com/momentoftruth/
So, if you are sure you have never lied, sign up, and we can all watch, and you will win $500,000! Nothing could be easier for someone that has never lied!

Ok, I am out of here....

God bless you, and don't forget since your church don't believe in tithing, you can send your $50,000 my way!!! :laugh: :wavey:

Good night

 

[Brother Bob]

How have I misrpresented you or put words in your mouth.
DHK; To say that God makes us sin is blasphemous.

That is how. These are your words not mine.

God allows you to sin. He doesn't force you to sin. You choose to sin. He doesn't keep you from sin, and He won't keep you from sin. That must be a deliberate choice on your part. That is why Paul said:

Galatians 2:20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

Paul made choices in his life; deliberate choices that God allowed him to make. He could have lived for the flesh or for Christ. It was his choice. God allowed him to choose. He didn't force him to do anything. He had the will to do so. Therefore Paul could say: "I am crucified with Christ." He had made that decision. "And the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God who loved me and gave Himself for me.
"I live by the faith" he said. It was his choice.

It was Ahab's choice to serve Baal.
He had no one else to blame but himself.
We all will give account of ourselves before God. God does not make choices for us.

I guess you "keep" yourself also. At least you finally got it right and said what I said to start with and that is "God allowed it to happen".

Have a good nite.

BBob,

 

[Brother Bob]

One last note before I go....

Since you don't lie, you are going to love me for this!!! :laugh:

Have you watched the new game show, The Moment of Truth...
It is new on Fox.. where all you have to win $500,000 is answer 21 questions truthfully....

Here is a link to sign up... http://www.fox.com/momentoftruth/
So, if you are sure you have never lied, sign up, and we can all watch, and you will win $500,000! Nothing could be easier for someone that has never lied!

Ok, I am out of here....

God bless you, and don't forget since your church don't believe in tithing, you can send your $50,000 my way!!! :laugh: :wavey:

Good night

A pastor trying in some way to make fun of some one who does not lie............. Now that is a new one. You need to be sure and pass this on to your congregation so they will feel free in telling all the lies they want.

BBob,

 

[tinytim]

Bob, you misunderstood me, I wasn't making fun of you.

Since you said you don't lie, I challenge you to go on, and make $500,000. I am not making fun... If you can't lie, it should be easy to do...

Why if all true Christians can't lie, we as Christians should be able to break Fox network...

Again, not making fun, but since YOU said you can't lie, go ahead, put your actions where your mouth is, and make some moolah...

OK, now, goodnite.. I just didn't want you thinking I was being nasty.

 

[Brother Bob]

Bob, you misunderstood me, I wasn't making fun of you.

Since you said you don't lie, I challenge you to go on, and make $500,000. I am not making fun... If you can't lie, it should be easy to do...

Why if all true Christians can't lie, we as Christians should be able to break Fox network...

Again, not making fun, but since YOU said you can't lie, go ahead, put your actions where your mouth is, and make some moolah...

OK, now, goodnite.. I just didn't want you thinking I was being nasty.

I wonder if some of your congregation watches BB.

BBob,

 

[tinytim]

I hope they do. They understand that they have the potential to sin. That is why we preach against sin.

If a congregation doesn't think they can sin, there is no need for the preacher to preach against it, unless it so the Congregation can walk out of their meeting, thinking,


"God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men [are], extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican.
I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess."

Instead, they know they are not perfect, and pray this prayer....
"God be merciful to me a sinner"

I would rather them be publicans than Pharisees...

I keep trying to avoid this thread... because all it is doing is allowing the world to think that the ORBs think they are above sin. And I am not convinced that all ORBs believe this garbage...

So, have a blessed Sunday.

Don't forget to set your clock forward tonight.

 

[Brother Bob]

I hope they do. They understand that they have the potential to sin. That is why we preach against sin.

If a congregation doesn't think they can sin, there is no need for the preacher to preach against it, unless it so the Congregation can walk out of their meeting, thinking,


"God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men [are], extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican.
I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess."

Instead, they know they are not perfect, and pray this prayer....
"God be merciful to me a sinner"

I would rather them be publicans than Pharisees...

I keep trying to avoid this thread... because all it is doing is allowing the world to think that the ORBs think they are above sin. And I am not convinced that all ORBs believe this garbage...

So, have a blessed Sunday.

Don't forget to set your clock forward tonight.

You have to make up stuff to condemn those who try and live the way God wants them to live. You now are comparing us with the Pharisees. No wonder you admit that you lie.

To believe that you could be in the act of raping a 4 year girl, when the Lord comes and still go to Heaven is what is garbage. You said all sin is the same, so you believe you and your congregation can be drunkards, rapists, adulterers, liars, killers "any sin known unto mankind" and Jesus come and find you so, and still go to Heaven. That is what is garbage. This is what you have said, I am only repeating it.

I have said over and over, that we sin, but not sins unto perdition, for Paul said we are not of them who draw back unto perdition. I wonder how you will escape the commandment "thou shalt not lie". The whole duty of man is to fear God and keep his commandments.
You believe the Christians are excluded from that scripture to mankind. In other words, John the Baptist should of told the old King to be saved, then it would be alright to have his brother phillip's wife. It would of saved him losing his head. Shame old John didn't have you to help him out so he didn't lose his head.

I keep trying to avoid this thread... because all it is doing is allowing the world to think that the ORBs think they are above sin. And I am not convinced that all ORBs believe this garbage...

This is a out and out lie. We have never stated such, we know we are sinners, but not sin unto perdition of which Paul said that "we are not of them who draw back unto perdition".


Don't forget to set your house in order before the Lord comes.

BBob,

 

[rbell]

It is just one of the many sin unto death.

Adultery, worshipping Idols, coveting another man's wife, lying, stealing, killing, and on and on.

You get the point, they are all singular but in and of themselves without repentance brings death.

Also, if you are guilty of one, then you become guilty of all.

Any sin, that will send you to hell, is a sin unto death.

BBob,

So...since any sin sends us to hell (because sin separates us from a holy God, then all sins are sins unto death? I'm confused...

Furthermore...Jesus in the Sermon on the Mount took it further than the commandments (e.g., "you've heard it say do not murder...I tell you do not be angry with your brother," et al)...do you stop short of where Jesus went? Or is being angry with your brother "a sin unto death?"

I notice you did not answer the question of whether what was on the news this evening applies to a Christian, that a man could be in the very act of raping a 4 year old little girl and the Lord come while he was committing the act, will he get up and go to Heaven??

Shoot, if I believed it, I would say it. Thank God I do not believe such hogwash and false doctrine and fables.

We keep coming back to child rape and adultery...but that has not been the question asked repeatedly, because that's not where most of us live. What about the person who is fearful? According to the same Scriptures you've used in the past, and by your definition, they also could not possibly be saved. Do you want to hold that line as well? If you do, what does that bode for most of us?

You are saying that if we sin, God has allowed it, therefore it is God's fault if we sinned. You blame God for man's sin.

Indeed, this is a huge weakness in Brother Bob's argument.

If a list of Scripturally-based "sins unto death" would be posted, much of the questions on this thread could be satisfactorily answered.

 

[DHK]

To believe that you could be in the act of raping a 4 year girl, when the Lord comes and still go to Heaven is what is garbage.

This is what you made up. No one here admitted it. It is a false accusation on your part. Besides that you took the example from the news where a crime was committed by someone unsaved, not saved. So you are the one being hypocritical, aren't you. Jesus condemned the one being hypocritical as one that will not go to heaven (as tinytim noted), and the sinner as the one that will go to heaven.

You said all sin is the same, so you believe you and your congregation can be drunkards, rapists, adulterers, liars, killers "any sin known unto mankind" and Jesus come and find you so, and still go to Heaven. That is what is garbage.

No, that is what Jesus said. He said that he came to save sinners, not the righteous (not the self-righteous hypocrites). He ministered to the woman caught in adultery. He forgave her without applying the consequence of the Law. The man in 1Cor.5 committed incest and went to heaven. The Word says so. You can deny it all you want, but that doesn't change the truth of the Word of God.

I have said over and over, that we sin, but not sins unto perdition,

There is no such thing. You are making things up that are not in the Bible.

for Paul said we are not of them who draw back unto perdition.

Paul wasn't speaking about Christians.

I wonder how you will escape the commandment "thou shalt not lie". The whole duty of man is to fear God and keep his commandments.

I know I would go to heaven. You no doubt would to if you were saved. But you would receive the greater condemnation for your lie of claiming not to sin, and your self-righteousness in doing so. The Bible says: "Let God be true but every man a liar. That includes you.

I would answer the rest of this post for you but I have to go.

 

[Brother Bob]

So...since any sin sends us to hell (because sin separates us from a holy God, then all sins are sins unto death? I'm confused...

Furthermore...Jesus in the Sermon on the Mount took it further than the commandments (e.g., "you've heard it say do not murder...I tell you do not be angry with your brother," et al)...do you stop short of where Jesus went? Or is being angry with your brother "a sin unto death?"



We keep coming back to child rape and adultery...but that has not been the question asked repeatedly, because that's not where most of us live. What about the person who is fearful? According to the same Scriptures you've used in the past, and by your definition, they also could not possibly be saved. Do you want to hold that line as well? If you do, what does that bode for most of us?



Indeed, this is a huge weakness in Brother Bob's argument.

If a list of Scripturally-based "sins unto death" would be posted, much of the questions on this thread could be satisfactorily answered.

You just listed some of them, wonder where you got them.

BBob,

 

[Brother Bob]

This is what you made up. No one here admitted it. It is a false accusation on your part. Besides that you took the example from the news where a crime was committed by someone unsaved, not saved. So you are the one being hypocritical, aren't you. Jesus condemned the one being hypocritical as one that will not go to heaven (as tinytim noted), and the sinner as the one that will go to heaven.

There is a post made by you that if a Christian was in the very act of adultery and got hit by lightening, he would go to heaven. So, I am not making it up.
You and the others say, a Christian can commit any sin known unto mankind, and you for sure said, even if they don't repent, they still go to Heaven, So, I am not making it up.


No, that is what Jesus said. He said that he came to save sinners, not the righteous (not the self-righteous hypocrites). He ministered to the woman caught in adultery. He forgave her without applying the consequence of the Law. The man in 1Cor.5 committed incest and went to heaven. The Word says so. You can deny it all you want, but that doesn't change the truth of the Word of God.

The woman was not saved, and He said "go and sin no more". According to your belief, she could sin some more and still go to Heaven.

The man who committed incest, he was not saved either, Paul said to cast him from them. When he really repented and came back, they received him by the door, and so do we.

There is no such thing. You are making things up that are not in the Bible.
Hbr 10:38 Now the just shall live by faith: but if [any man] draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him.
Hbr 10:39 But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul.

Paul wasn't speaking about Christians.

Hbr 10:38 Now the just shall live by faith: but if [any man] draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him.

Hbr 10:39 But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul.

Yes, he was talking to Christians too.

I know I would go to heaven. You no doubt would to if you were saved. But you would receive the greater condemnation for your lie of claiming not to sin, and your self-righteousness in doing so. The Bible says: "Let God be true but every man a liar. That includes you.

So, according to your belief and others on here, if I am lying right now, I would still go to Heaven. I just don't believe that, except I repented and accepted to be led by the Spirit of Christ, instead of the devil.

I would answer the rest of this post for you but I have to go.

No problem....

 

[rbell]

You just listed some of them, wonder where you got them.

BBob,

Well, since you seem to know the whole list, and the rest of the board is guessing at it, how about sharing with us? Wouldn't that fall under the realm of "teaching?"