Salvation and sin

[Brother Bob]

And which sins are those? Paul said: "It is sin that dwells in me." Perhaps it was "the deadly sins." He doesn't say. And you don't know. But sin did dwell in him. He was a sinner to the end of his life.

Anything not of faith is sin, such as not visiting the sick, failing to assembly yourselves together to worship. You know what they are for God is teaching you. If it feels wrong, then you probably shouldn't do it.

And you have never shown to any of us what sins unto death are. You have never been able to produce a list of any such sins. But Paul said: "Sin dwells in me." Yes, I can show you Scripture from Romans 7 where Paul says that he is a sinner; sin dwells in him; and in him dwells no good thing." He is speaking of life after salvation, not before. Paul considered himself the chief of sinners.

Yes, and in the same passage, Paul gave you the sins that continued to haunt him because he had persecuted God's children, but you won't have what scripture plainly tells you. You cannot show where Paul committed a sin unto death after conversion.

First show us a list of sins unto death. Where is the list.
Paul admitted to sin. Paul admitted to sin that dwells in him. The tense is in the present. It dwells. It continues to dwell. It is there. It needs to be dealt with.

The whole duty of man is to fear God and keep His commandments. I know that he put them in your heart and mind. You know when you go to do them it is sin. You do not need me, for Jesus said, before I come you had a clok for your sins, but now that I have come, they are not covered anymore my friend. God taught you already and to ask someone else what is a deadly sin, is just completely in awe to me. I could ask a drunk down town and He could begin to list them and every time one came up, he could tell me, for there is a Spirit in man, the inspiration of God almighty that giveth him understanding. So don't try to lay it off on another man. I go to the gym ever day almost and since this came up, I have begin to ask others of several different denominations about if they could lie, commit adultery and it was just a bump in the road. Not one person agreed with you. It made me feel pretty good, that the truth is being taught in this area anyway.

Just the opposite is true, else we could not teach much of anything. I taught my children to tell the truth; but I am not going to say that I have never told a lie. That would indeed make me the hypocrite. We are all prone to sin. I preach to my congregation to live Godly and Christlike lives. But I dare not say that there have been times when I have not lived Christlike in some way or another. That would make me the hypocrite. We all sin. If you get angry, or lose your temper, or say something that you shouldn't have, then you haven't been Godly in your actions or Christlike in your spirit. If you say that you are always Godlike and Christlike then you are the one that is the hypocrite. Thus it is the opposite of what you say that is true.
Yes, and what about anger, impure thoughts, fear, covetous, gluttony, intemperance (in anything), gossip, lies, or any of the above "deadly" sins. Have you never committed these "deadly" sins? All sins are deadly in God's sight. Any sin can send a person to Hell. God hates them all, and puts no difference between them.

Are you saying because Jesus got angry that he sinned unto death. I don't covet others wives, impure thoughts, it is you that make the impure, you stand there and begin to lust. Thank God, I am able to walk on.
I do not lie, I get accused of it a lot on here. Just this week, something happened in another church and I was told that they told the party, call Bro Bobby, I guarntee you will get the truth. Do people say that about you, or the opposite. I pray they say the same of you.
Yes, I sin but again, not the Ten commandments.

According to his standards; not God's standards.
Romans 3:10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:
Romans 3:12 They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.

Was that not Israel? They were weak in the flesh and under the law, that is why Jesus came. Anyway, no one had the blood yet. IMO

You do err not knowing the Scriptures...
Paul admitted many times in sinning after the flesh.
Perhaps the sins that he committed were sins unto death; we don't know because the Bible doesn't say. Actually we don't know because Bob won't post the list of sins unto death for us.

I tell you DHK, start with the Ten and go from there. The reason I don't make a list, it is God's list and He said He would put them in your mind. I am not going to do God job. I don't have to, I don't have to die on the cross, and for you to tell me that I need to teach others what sin really is, baffles me. I lived in the world for several years before being saved. I knew what was right and what was wrong, how come you are lacking in that area, I don't understand?

Paul said: It is sin that dwells in me.
Paul said: In my flesh dwells no good thing.
Paul admitted that he sinned; that he was a sinner.
Paul admitted to these things, but you don't. Are you better than Paul?

Why do you constantly tell false here, I have said over and over that I sin, I just say I don't sin unto death, such as adultery, but you seem to not understand.

That is what Paul taught. But he was still a sinner and still sinned. He still had a sin nature that he struggled with each day. He said in 1Cor.15:31 I die daily. Why did he say that? What did he mean? It means he put the fleshly desires to death as it were, saying no to his wants and yes to the desires of Christ. It means saying no to sin. It infers that there were many times that he did sin. If he didn't sin he wouldn't have to crucify himself; he wouldn't have to die to sin. But he had to do that on a daily basis because every day sin raised its ugly head and had to be dealt with.

Maybe he failed to go over in Macedonia (sp), you think?

Sure we sin and can't go to Heaven in these bodies, we must die, so this corruptle puts on incorruptle and this mortal puts on immortality. Then we will not fail to go over in Macedonia or wherever the Lord is.

You need to teach men and women, that if they give their lives to Christ, that He will care for them and keep them from the devil and deliver them to Heaven. Tell them they will not be perfect in this life, but they will not return unto perdition either, and in the end, God will even raise their bodies from the grave and then they will be perfect, both inwardly and outwardly.

You see DHK; we have several churches and we all live this way, so I know men can do it. You just have to lead them in the right direction.

God Bless,

BBob, raying:

 

[Lou Martuneac]

I don't think any regular poster on the BB holds to that view.

Hi:

I have not interacted with any one at BB that holds to the Hodges, Wilkin, and GES view of sin. But, the GES is very aggressive in propagating their egregious errors and I want to warn others that this teaching is out there.


LM

 

[DHK]

Maybe he failed to go over in Macedonia (sp), you think?

He referred to many sins. "The thing(S) that I do..."
In 1Cor.7 he touches on many sexual sins that he himself could relate to. He no doubt had some problem in this area previously. Even now as a single man it was possible that he could still have thoughts that were immoral. He was only a mortal man.
Previously, being on the Sanhedrin, he no doubt was married, that being a requirement for membership on that council. It would be an amazing feat of wonder if he did not have problems in the flesh.
In fact the Lord sent him a "thorn in the flesh" to keep him humble, to remind him that he still was a sinner, in spite of the spiritual gifts that he had and the good that he was doing.

Sure we sin and can't go to Heaven in these bodies, we must die, so this corruptle puts on incorruptle and this mortal puts on immortality. Then we will not fail to go over in Macedonia or wherever the Lord is.

You assume too much. The Lord is everywhere. You are allegorizing the Bible. The Lord was with Paul no matter where he went. Paul did not sin in not going to Macedonia in that particular situation. The Holy Spirit directed him elsewhere. Are you confining God? Now that is sin! When you allegorize the Bible in that sense you may as well allegorize the entire sacrifice of Christ, and be like the J.W.'s and believe that Christ only rose in spirit, not in body. That is their take on Scripture. It is their way of spiritualizing the Scripture. This is what you are doing.

You need to teach men and women, that if they give their lives to Christ, that He will care for them and keep them from the devil and deliver them to Heaven. Tell them they will not be perfect in this life, but they will not return unto perdition either, and in the end, God will even raise their bodies from the grave and then they will be perfect, both inwardly and outwardly.

"You need to..." I don't need your instruction Bob. I believe you are teaching a false doctrine that takes away from the sufficiency of Christ and leads to a religion of works. I stay away from it. When a person receives Christ as Saviour he will still retain his old sin nature. He will still sin. He will struggle with it all of his life just as Paul did. The Apostle John warned that he would. Thus John wrote:

1 John 2:1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:
--John new that the believer would sin. John tells us that the Lord made a provision for the believers' sin. Even now the Lord Jesus Christ sits on the right hand of God making intercession for the believer. Why would he be doing that Bob. He is our Great High Priest. Why would John write:

1 John 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

You see DHK; we have several churches and we all live this way, so I know men can do it. You just have to lead them in the right direction.

God Bless,

BBob, raying:

You put yourself in the place of God and that is blasphemy. You pretend to know the hearts of mankind, and that is blasphemy. It is blasphemy because it something that only God can do. Listen to what the Bible says:

Jeremiah 17:9-10 The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?
10 I the LORD search the heart, I try the reins, even to give every man according to his ways, and according to the fruit of his doings.
--Who knows the heart of man? Not man! The answer is given in verse 10. "I the Lord search the heart." Only the Lord knows the heart, not Bob!
--How do you know what goes on behind the closed doors of the members of your church?
How do you know when their spouses are angry with each other, when words are exchanged that should have never been said?
How do you know if a young man's eyes stray off and look at a young man, and they just happen to lust after her (committing that horrible sin that you keep referring to--adultery)
How do you know when one of your members becomes angry with his brother and commits the sin of murder?
How do you know when the members of your church either tell a lie, or engage in gossip?
How do you know when the members of your church covet--see something in a store that they know that they can't have but wish that they could.

Are you omniscient Bob? How do you know all these things? Do you play the part of God in pretending to know the hearts of the members of your church.

"The heart is deceitful above all things and desperately wicked, who can know it." The answer is "Not Bob!"

The fact is Bob, that not only do your members commit all these sins but you probably do too, but are just too self-righteous to admit it. In fact, you would never admit publicly on the internet in such a place as the Baptist Board, would you? But some day every secret thing shall be made manifest, put in the open for all to see.
Every man shall give account of himself to God. And I doubt if it will be a private showing.

 

[rbell]

I tell you DHK, start with the Ten and go from there. The reason I don't make a list, it is God's list and He said He would put them in your mind. I am not going to do God job. I don't have to, I don't have to die on the cross, and for you to tell me that I need to teach others what sin really is, baffles me. I lived in the world for several years before being saved. I knew what was right and what was wrong, how come you are lacking in that area, I don't understand?

so....we can't provide a scriptural list of "sins unto death?"

Did God just leave that up to us to figure out?
What if your list is different than my list?
And since Scripture doesn't give us the list...how could we decide whose "list" is correct?

If we start with the 10 commandments and go from there...how does that line up with Jesus' expounding on them in the Sermon on the Mount's "you have heard....but I say unto you" section? That seems to blow that theory right out of the water.

We keep coming back to the same thing: you dwell on adultery, etc., but 1 Cor. 6 and Rev. 21 put those "other sins" such as lying, fearfulness, unbelief--right in the same camp.

I sure would like to see that scriptural list of "sins unto death..."

 

[Brother Bob]

so....we can't provide a scriptural list of "sins unto death?"

Did God just leave that up to us to figure out?
What if your list is different than my list?
And since Scripture doesn't give us the list...how could we decide whose "list" is correct?

If we start with the 10 commandments and go from there...how does that line up with Jesus' expounding on them in the Sermon on the Mount's "you have heard....but I say unto you" section? That seems to blow that theory right out of the water.

We keep coming back to the same thing: you dwell on adultery, etc., but 1 Cor. 6 and Rev. 21 put those "other sins" such as lying, fearfulness, unbelief--right in the same camp.

I sure would like to see that scriptural list of "sins unto death..."

[if you can't respond to the post, please avoid the personal attacks]

BBob,

 

[DHK]

If you do not know, you have not business ministering to anyone. You are not qualified, if you don't know what sin is.

BBob,

Another self-righteous, omniscient judgement of the heart of man.

 

[TCGreek]

BBob, I too will like to know what those sins unto death are. Thank you.

 

[Brother Bob]

He referred to many sins. "The thing(S) that I do..."
In 1Cor.7 he touches on many sexual sins that he himself could relate to. He no doubt had some problem in this area previously. Even now as a single man it was possible that he could still have thoughts that were immoral. He was only a mortal man.
Previously, being on the Sanhedrin, he no doubt was married, that being a requirement for membership on that council. It would be an amazing feat of wonder if he did not have problems in the flesh.
In fact the Lord sent him a "thorn in the flesh" to keep him humble, to remind him that he still was a sinner, in spite of the spiritual gifts that he had and the good that he was doing.

Scripture says it is a messenger of Satan.

You still have not shown where he committed sin unto death after conversion. You have a lot of supposes, but no facts. I don't care for your supposes.


You assume too much. The Lord is everywhere. You are allegorizing the Bible. The Lord was with Paul no matter where he went. Paul did not sin in not going to Macedonia in that particular situation. The Holy Spirit directed him elsewhere. Are you confining God? Now that is sin! When you allegorize the Bible in that sense you may as well allegorize the entire sacrifice of Christ, and be like the J.W.'s and believe that Christ only rose in spirit, not in body. That is their take on Scripture. It is their way of spiritualizing the Scripture. This is what you are doing.

"You need to..." I don't need your instruction Bob. I believe you are teaching a false doctrine that takes away from the sufficiency of Christ and leads to a religion of works. I stay away from it. When a person receives Christ as Saviour he will still retain his old sin nature. He will still sin. He will struggle with it all of his life just as Paul did. The Apostle John warned that he would. Thus John wrote:

The Masidonia was a jest, but If he was directed to go and didn't then it could be sin, you don't know what the Holy Spirit told Paul. You again are supposing, You are always suposing, I don't care for you supposing, it is not fact or truth. IMO

1 John 2:1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:
--John new that the believer would sin. John tells us that the Lord made a provision for the believers' sin. Even now the Lord Jesus Christ sits on the right hand of God making intercession for the believer. Why would he be doing that Bob. He is our Great High Priest. Why would John write:

Well you finally quoted something right, but the advocate is for sins that are not unto death.
You say all sins were covered by the blood, why you bringing up the advocate for if the sins are already paid for. You cross yourself and spout off supposes again.

1 John 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
You put yourself in the place of God and that is blasphemy. You pretend to know the hearts of mankind, and that is blasphemy. It is blasphemy because it something that only God can do. Listen to what the Bible says:

Again, you say our sins past, present and future are already paid for at the cross and then you bring up "if we confess our sins, He is faithful to forgive our sins. Again, you cross yourself, you said they had already been forgiven, and then you say they have to be forgiven again. More supposes and unfactual.


Jeremiah 17:9-10 The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?
10 I the LORD search the heart, I try the reins, even to give every man according to his ways, and according to the fruit of his doings.

According to his ways and the fruit of his doings. Here you quote a scripture that shows some hearts are deceitful and some are not. Again, you cross yourself, over and over you cross yourself.

--Who knows the heart of man? Not man! The answer is given in verse 10. "I the Lord search the heart." Only the Lord knows the heart, not Bob!
--How do you know what goes on behind the closed doors of the members of your church?
How do you know when their spouses are angry with each other, when words are exchanged that should have never been said?
How do you know if a young man's eyes stray off and look at a young man, and they just happen to lust after her (committing that horrible sin that you keep referring to--adultery)
How do you know when one of your members becomes angry with his brother and commits the sin of murder?
How do you know when the members of your church either tell a lie, or engage in gossip?
How do you know when the members of your church covet--see something in a store that they know that they can't have but wish that they could.

Because my Lord told me there is nothing hidden that shall not be revealed.

Num 32:23But if ye will not do so, behold, ye have sinned against the LORD: and be sure your sin will find you out.


If someone is able to get through this life fooling the Pastor, he only hurts himself, not me.


Are you omniscient Bob? How do you know all these things? Do you play the part of God in pretending to know the hearts of the members of your church.

You shall know a tree by the fruits it bears. I have seen very good fruits from our members. They are Godly people.

"The heart is deceitful above all things and desperately wicked, who can know it." The answer is "Not Bob!"

The scripture you quoted, stated there was differences in the hearts.

The fact is Bob, that not only do your members commit all these sins but you probably do too, but are just too self-righteous to admit it. In fact, you would never admit publicly on the internet in such a place as the Baptist Board, would you? But some day every secret thing shall be made manifest, put in the open for all to see.
Every man shall give account of himself to God. And I doubt if it will be a private showing.

You openly accuse me and tell me that Bob can not know these things and then you turn around and hypocritically say you can. hogwash. IMO

You are supposed to be reaching out to the lost, but instead, you spend your time being self righteous and trying to bring down a Pastor of many years. Jeepers, I am sure you must be proud.

All your statements are your own prejudices and self appointed positions. They are not scripture and as I said before, we shall be held accountable for every word that proceeds from our mouths, and that includes you for sure. IMO

 

[Brother Bob]

BBob, I too will like to know what those sins unto death are. Thank you.

Surprised you don't know TC:

Hbr 8:10 For this [is] the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:

Hbr 10:16 This [is] the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;

Jhn 15:22If I had not come and spoken unto them, they had not had sin: but now they have no cloke for their sin.

Ti 2:
11: For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,
12: Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;
13: Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;
14: Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.

It must tell you what ungodliness is before teaching you to deny it.

BBob,

 

[TCGreek]

Surprised you don't know TC:

Hbr 8:10 For this [is] the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:

Hbr 10:16 This [is] the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;

First up, the expression "sin unto death" is based on 1 John 5.

I don't understand how these references from the book of Hebrews answer that question.

 

[Brother Bob]

First up, the expression "sin unto death" is based on 1 John 5.

I don't understand how these references from the book of Hebrews answer that question.

Does raping a 5 year old girl bring death without repentance??

Do you think God's law varies from book to book?

TC; Do you believe a person must be in posession of a Bible, before he can commit a sin that would send him to hell without repentance???

 

[TCGreek]

Does raping a 5 year old girl bring death without repentance??

I don't understand this question.

Do you think God's law varies from book to book?

Yes, I see in Scripture.

TC; Do you believe a person must be in posession of a Bible, before he can commit a sin that would send him to hell without repentance???

Even a man with a Bible and a lot of it memorized can be on his way to hell.

 

[DHK]

Originally Posted by DHK

He referred to many sins. "The thing(S) that I do..."
In 1Cor.7 he touches on many sexual sins that he himself could relate to. He no doubt had some problem in this area previously. Even now as a single man it was possible that he could still have thoughts that were immoral. He was only a mortal man.
Previously, being on the Sanhedrin, he no doubt was married, that being a requirement for membership on that council. It would be an amazing feat of wonder if he did not have problems in the flesh.
In fact the Lord sent him a "thorn in the flesh" to keep him humble, to remind him that he still was a sinner, in spite of the spiritual gifts that he had and the good that he was doing.

Scripture says it is a messenger of Satan.

There are many messengers of Satan. God allowed Satan to tempt Job. Much of the sin in man’s life is a direct result of Satan’s messengers, though not all of it.

You still have not shown where he committed sin unto death after conversion.

You have a lot of supposes, but no facts. I don't care for your supposes.

You are basically being silly. You have not shown where he did not commit a sin unto death, and was consequently forgiven. In fact you have never given any such list of a sin unto death. You have only been condescending to those who have asked for such a list, which is a sin in itself. (perhaps even unto death—since all sin is equal in God’s sight, unless you are a Roman Catholic. They are the ones that categorize sins like you appear to be doing.

You assume too much. The Lord is everywhere. You are allegorizing the Bible. The Lord was with Paul no matter where he went. Paul did not sin in not going to Macedonia in that particular situation. The Holy Spirit directed him elsewhere. Are you confining God? Now that is sin! When you allegorize the Bible in that sense you may as well allegorize the entire sacrifice of Christ, and be like the J.W.'s and believe that Christ only rose in spirit, not in body.

That is their take on Scripture. It is their way of spiritualizing the Scripture. This is what you are doing.

Yes, that is their take on that particular view of Scripture. But you are doing the same type of thing; taking the same approach to Scripture. Augustine and Origen (both heretics) did the same thing. They allegorized Scripture. Can you demonstrate through Scripture that Macedonia was the place where God is, and the rest of the world where God was not?

The Masidonia was a jest, but If he was directed to go and didn't then it could be sin, you don't know what the Holy Spirit told Paul. You again are supposing, You are always suposing, I don't care for you supposing, it is not fact or truth. IMO

Actually I don’t know what you are talking about. Here is what happened.

Acts 16:9-10 And a vision appeared to Paul in the night; There stood a man of Macedonia, and prayed him, saying, Come over into Macedonia, and help us.
And after he had seen the vision, immediately we endeavoured to go into Macedonia, assuredly gathering that the Lord had called us for to preach the gospel unto them.
--They did exactly what the Lord told them to do. It sounds like you are making up fables, or don’t know your Bible very well.

1 John 2:1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:
--John new that the believer would sin. John tells us that the Lord made a provision for the believers' sin. Even now the Lord Jesus Christ sits on the right hand of God making intercession for the believer. Why would he be doing that Bob. He is our Great High Priest. Why would John write:
I John 1:9?

Well you finally quoted something right, but the advocate is for sins that are not unto death.
You say all sins were covered by the blood, why you bringing up the advocate for if the sins are already paid for. You cross yourself and spout off supposes again.

What are sins unto death? Do you decide Bob? Or does God? It seems as if you have placed yourself in the place of God, since you haven’t been able to provide a list but just arbitrarily say that a person has committed a sin unto death and one hasn’t. That is God’s duty not man’s. Why are you playing God? Isn’t that blasphemy? I would say it is.

You put yourself in the place of God and that is blasphemy. You pretend to know the hearts of mankind, and that is blasphemy. It is blasphemy because it something that only God can do. Listen to what the Bible says: (Jer.17:9,10)

Again, you say our sins past, present and future are already paid for at the cross and then you bring up "if we confess our sins, He is faithful to forgive our sins. Again, you cross yourself, you said they had already been forgiven, and then you say they have to be forgiven again. More supposes and unfactual.

I would say there is more misunderstanding on salvation and the Christian walk on your part. We confess our sins on a daily basis not because we have lost our salvation (those sins are under the blood), but because we must renew our fellowship with God. I will always be the son of my father. Nothing can change that fact. However I may do something that will offend him and cause a separation to come between the two of us. Unless I confess what I have done and ask forgiveness from him, our fellowship with each other may not be restored, but I will always remain his child no matter what happens. The same is true with our heavenly Father.

quote]Jeremiah 17:9-10 The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?
10 I the LORD search the heart, I try the reins, even to give every man according to his ways, and according to the fruit of his doings.

According to his ways and the fruit of his doings. Here you quote a scripture that shows some hearts are deceitful and some are not. Again, you cross yourself, over and over you cross yourself.

[/quote]
No. I quote a Scripture that says what God says, not what you want it to say. It says that ALL hearts, not some hearts are deceitful. That includes your heart Bob. Don’t try to escape from Scripture.

--Who knows the heart of man? Not man! The answer is given in verse 10. "I the Lord search the heart." Only the Lord knows the heart, not Bob!
--How do you know what goes on behind the closed doors of the members of your church?
How do you know when their spouses are angry with each other, when words are exchanged that should have never been said?
How do you know if a young man's eyes stray off and look at a young man, and they just happen to lust after her (committing that horrible sin that you keep referring to--adultery)
How do you know when one of your members becomes angry with his brother and commits the sin of murder?
How do you know when the members of your church either tell a lie, or engage in gossip?
How do you know when the members of your church covet--see something in a store that they know that they can't have but wish that they could.

Because my Lord told me there is nothing hidden that shall not be revealed.

That is the height of arrogance Bob, and it is your claim to omniscience which is an attribute of God alone. This is your claim to Godhood, which is blasphemy. The heart (all hearts including yours) is deceitful above all things and desperately wicked.

Are you omniscient Bob? How do you know all these things? Do you play the part of God in pretending to know the hearts of the members of your church.

You shall know a tree by the fruits it bears. I have seen very good fruits from our members. They are Godly people.

You cannot see all of their fruits Bob. You are not omniscient. You don’t know what goes on behind closed doors. Please don’t tell me that you do.

"The heart is deceitful above all things and desperately wicked, who can know it." The answer is "Not Bob!"

The scripture you quoted, stated there was differences in the hearts.

Demonstrate it. It is descriptive of every man’s heart.

The fact is Bob, that not only do your members commit all these sins but you probably do too, but are just too self-righteous to admit it. In fact, you would never admit publicly on the internet in such a place as the Baptist Board, would you? But some day every secret thing shall be made manifest, put in the open for all to see.
Every man shall give account of himself to God. And I doubt if it will be a private showing.

You openly accuse me and tell me that Bob can not know these things and then you turn around and hypocritically say you can. hogwash. IMO

I never said I can know the heart of man. I can only quote what the Bible says. The Bible says that no man can know the heart of man, as you claim that you can. The Bible claims that all men sin. You claim you don’t. The Bible doesn’t make a list of sins unto death. You claim you have one, but can’t produce one. The Bible says that all sins are equal in God’s sight. You claim that they are not. The Bible teaches that it is just as bad to lie as it is to murder. You say it is not. What am I to believe Bob? The Bible or you? I go with the Bible!

 

[Brother Bob]

I don't understand this question.
Really a very simple question that a 3 year old could answer. I know a drunk down town could answer it.




Yes, I see in Scripture.

I was taught He is the same God yesterday, today and forevermore and changes not. I guess you believe different.



Even a man with a Bible and a lot of it memorized can be on his way to hell.

Yes, but you fail to answer the simple question, does a man have to have a Bible, to sin a sin unto death and without repentance, will be lost. I can see why you don't answer though. I suspect you do know the answer to the questions I ask you about rape also.

BBob,

 

[Brother Bob]

There are many messengers of Satan. God allowed Satan to tempt Job. Much of the sin in man’s life is a direct result of Satan’s messengers, though not all of it.

Yes, but in this instance we are talking of the thorn in Paul side. Why you run off on this wild escapade, I do not know.

You are basically being silly. You have not shown where he did not commit a sin unto death, and was consequently forgiven. In fact you have never given any such list of a sin unto death. You have only been condescending to those who have asked for such a list, which is a sin in itself. (perhaps even unto death—since all sin is equal in God’s sight, unless you are a Roman Catholic. They are the ones that categorize sins like you appear to be doing.
Yes, that is their take on that particular view of Scripture. But you are doing the same type of thing; taking the same approach to Scripture. Augustine and Origen (both heretics) did the same thing. They allegorized Scripture. Can you demonstrate through Scripture that Macedonia was the place where God is, and the rest of the world where God was not?
Actually I don’t know what you are talking about. Here is what happened.

Acts 16:9-10 And a vision appeared to Paul in the night; There stood a man of Macedonia, and prayed him, saying, Come over into Macedonia, and help us.
And after he had seen the vision, immediately we endeavoured to go into Macedonia, assuredly gathering that the Lord had called us for to preach the gospel unto them.
--They did exactly what the Lord told them to do. It sounds like you are making up fables, or don’t know your Bible very well.
What are sins unto death? Do you decide Bob? Or does God? It seems as if you have placed yourself in the place of God, since you haven’t been able to provide a list but just arbitrarily say that a person has committed a sin unto death and one hasn’t. That is God’s duty not man’s. Why are you playing God? Isn’t that blasphemy? I would say it is.
I would say there is more misunderstanding on salvation and the Christian walk on your part. We confess our sins on a daily basis not because we have lost our salvation (those sins are under the blood), but because we must renew our fellowship with God. I will always be the son of my father. Nothing can change that fact. However I may do something that will offend him and cause a separation to come between the two of us. Unless I confess what I have done and ask forgiveness from him, our fellowship with each other may not be restored, but I will always remain his child no matter what happens. The same is true with our heavenly Father.

No. I quote a Scripture that says what God says, not what you want it to say. It says that ALL hearts, not some hearts are deceitful. That includes your heart Bob. Don’t try to escape from Scripture.

You may have a decietful heart, I don't think I do. IMO

That is the height of arrogance Bob, and it is your claim to omniscience which is an attribute of God alone. This is your claim to Godhood, which is blasphemy. The heart (all hearts including yours) is deceitful above all things and desperately wicked.
You cannot see all of their fruits Bob. You are not omniscient. You don’t know what goes on behind closed doors. Please don’t tell me that you do. It is for sure you can't see their hearts or fruits, but yet you are willing to call them evil.

Wonder why scripture tells us we shall know a tree by the fruit it bears. either the scripture is right or you are. I take the scripture.

Demonstrate it. It is descriptive of every man’s heart.
I never said I can know the heart of man. I can only quote what the Bible says. The Bible says that no man can know the heart of man, as you claim that you can. The Bible claims that all men sin. You claim you don’t. The Bible doesn’t make a list of sins unto death. You claim you have one, but can’t produce one. The Bible says that all sins are equal in God’s sight. You claim that they are not. The Bible teaches that it is just as bad to lie as it is to murder. You say it is not. What am I to believe Bob? The Bible or you? I go with the Bible![/quote] The bold is you calling me a liar again and you know I have stated over and over that we sin, but you want people to think when they read this, that I am saying a Christian cannot sin. It is your words, not mine.

Yes, you did say you knew the heart of my members, that they were all decietful. You also said you know my heart that I and my members are guilty of all kinds of sin. That is hogwash on your part.

You ramble on and go off the deep end so much, its hard to converse with you. TC did the same, simple questions I asked him, but he just plainly refused to answer.

Again DHK; you need to be up and about your Father's business and that is to try to reach the world of sinners and try to get them to repent and believe in Christ, instead of spending your time trying to tear down an Old Pastor of many years, who is able to decipher scripture much better than you, by the help of the Good Lord Himself. He told me that He would give me what to say to my adversaries, and He does.

Sins unto death are unrepented sins. All of them, which are not covered by our advocate and chastement.

BTW, you never did give an answer if adultery will send you to hell, if unrepented of?


BBob,

 

[MB]

I wanted to respond to you all today but sometimes my work just will not allow me too. Please forgive me I'll be back Sunday after church.
MB

 

[DHK]

BTW, you never did give an answer if adultery will send you to hell, if unrepented of?
BBob,

I don't remember the question being asked of me. Perhaps it was and I over-looked it. But I will give you an answer. How well do you understand the atonement? I explained this concept in the Other Christian Denominations Forum. It is a misunderstood doctrine by many. Perhaps if I explain your question in the light of the Atonement you will better understand my answer.

Romans 5:10-11 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.
11 And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement.

This is the only time in the NT that the word "atonement" is found. It means "reconciliation." In fact that is the way that the Geneva Bible translates it. However, it is the means of reconciliation, not the result. Other words connected with the atonement are: propitiation or satisfaction, a covering.

A good picture of the Atonement is given in the OT during the Passover. A lamb, by each household had to be shed. The blood was the payment for the sin. Without the shedding of blood there is no remission of sin. Without the blood there could be no reconciliation. Blood was the payment. But it wasn't just the blood that was needed. The blood had to be applied by each individual. Each house had to take that blood and put it on the posts of their house and on the lintel above. Then when the death angel flew over the houses that night; when he saw the blood he passed over those houses. They were protected by the blood. The blood acted as a covering for those who believed. All of their sins were under the blood. They were under God's protection. Those who were not suffered the terrible consequences of God's judgment.

The wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. A wage is something I deserve, something that I work for. I deserve eternal death, eternal separation from God. It is a wage that I cannot pay, and that I do not want. The good news is that Christ loved me enough to pay the penalty for me.

The atonement is a literal payment for my sins. Christ paid the price of my sins literally with his blood. When his blood was shed it satisfied the legal demands of God.
IJohn 2:2 says:
1 John 2:2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

--It was literal and personal. Propitiation means satisfaction. He satisfied the demands of God from a legal perspective. He paid the penalty, a penalty that I could never pay. It was personal. If I was the only person on the face of this world Jesus Christ loved me (or you) enough that he would have come and died just for me. It was an intensely personal love.

--It was a collective love. "And not for ours only but for the sins of the whole world." He shed his blood for the sins of the whole world. He paid for them all--every one of them--adultery, drunkeness, murder, sorcery, incest, the worst sins you could ever think of, Jesus paid for them all with his blood. There is not one sin that Jesus never paid for. He paid for them all with his blood. He paid the penalty for all of our sins. He could do that for two reasons:
1. He was the only one to live a sinless life.
2. He was God.

1 Peter 3:18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:

1 Peter 2:22 Who did no sin, neither was guile found in his mouth:
1 Peter 2:24 Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.

He paid the penalty for our sins, no matter how bad they would be, with his own blood.
He paid the penalty of them all: past, present and future.
Our sins are covered by the blood of Christ.

The wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
Since he has paid for my sins, and I have applied that blood to my life, he has given me eternal life as a gift--a gift that can never be taken away. If it could be taken away it would no longer be eternal, and Christ would be a liar. Eternal only has one meaning--eternal, everlasting, without end; not temporary.

In the atonement all my sins are covered. They are paid for. Thus if a Christian were to commit the sin of adultery and not repent before he die, he would still go to heaven. His sins are under the blood. God already took care of them. If you claim that he would have to repent in order for him to go to heaven, then you insult Christ and have made Christianity into a religion of works. You are basically telling Christ that His work of atonement is not sufficient. His blood was not enough to pay the full atonement, to satisfy the demands of God. Man has to pay his own part in the plan of God's salvation. Man has to repent before he goes to heaven.
That denies what the Bible says:

Ephesians 2:8-9 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Repentance is a work. If man had to repent salvation would not be by grace through faith; it would be by works. And man would get to heaven and boast about what he had done to help Jesus pay for our sins. What blasphemy that would be. I for one, would not want to live in a heaven like that.

 

[TCGreek]

Yes, but you fail to answer the simple question, does a man have to have a Bible, to sin a sin unto death and without repentance, will be lost. I can see why you don't answer though. I suspect you do know the answer to the questions I ask you about rape also.

BBob,

BBob,

1. What does the Bible say is the "sin unto death"? Notice that it is singluar "sin unto death."

2. Are God's people commanded to go and wipe out the Amalekites or the Hittites, If your understanding of God is the same yesterday, today and forever?

I'm interested in what the Bible has to say not opinions driven by emotions or the like.

 

[Brother Bob]

BBob,

1. What does the Bible say is the "sin unto death"? Notice that it is singluar "sin unto death."

2. Are God's people commanded to go and wipe out the Amalekites or the Hittites, If your understanding of God is the same yesterday, today and forever?

I'm interested in what the Bible has to say not opinions driven by emotions or the like.

So am I and will unrepented adultery send you to hell?? Adultery is a singular act, that can be done over and over, but if you are guilty of "one" then you are guilty of all. See what I mean? A singular act, can make you guilty of all.

BBob,

 

[DHK]

BTW, you never did give an answer if adultery will send you to hell, if unrepented of?

BBob,

The only sin that will send a person to hell is rejection of Christ as Saviour.
Unrepented adultery, therefore will not.