Salvation & grape juice

[mcdirector]

Here is an outline by MacArthur: http://www.biblebb.com/files/MAC/sg1937.htm

Be Not Drunk with Wine--Part 2

It describes the making of wine and the alcoholic content.


Here is part 1 - http://www.biblebb.com/files/mac/sg1936.htm
It doesn't go with the topic, but since it is the first part of the sermon, I thought it would be nice to add it.

 

[His Blood Spoke My Name]

Hi Bitsy! My singing probably IS like your hubby's!

Anyway, HBSMN has condemned those who disagree with him about his interpretation to hell, so we were only having a little fun with it. If anyone should examine themselves (besides me, of course), I think he is overdue. This doesn't mean I question his relationship with his creator, only in his self-assured zealotry to say those who have other views are going to hell.

I do appreciate your sweet spirit of grace. Don't change it!

MP

Wrong, MP.

It is the Word of God that judges those who choose to deny the truth and continue to sin. It is the Word of God that judges those who are leading the flock astray by telling them what God calls sin is not sin.

I do not condemn you or anyone else. If man does not believe on the Lord and keep His commandments, the Bible says man is already condemned.

The Bible is His Word and commands abstinence.

 

[His Blood Spoke My Name]

IT was obvious that no agreement would come.

Personally, I do not believe it wrong to add humor from time to time.
Perhaps this was undo levity but I have contacted HBSMN privately confronting his error and the danger of pride and self righteousness.

He responded that he wasn't in error or self righteous or arrogant and thus it was me that was at fault.

The Lord know I have plenty and I didn't not mean to be an offense to anyone here.

The level of error in HBSMN is, if I may say so, at an intoxicating level.
This is much more than a disagreement among bretheren. I don't really care what one thinks about alcohol.

When someone starts adding to grace and twisting the Bible I do have a problem.
When someone claims to have in themselves the ability to go sinless for relatively log periods of time...well....

There are instances of sarcasm and humor in the Bible.
If you do not believe this is the proper time, then I apologize.

The Word of God would not command us to Submit to God, resist the devil, Walk in the Spirit, flee youthful lusts, present your bodies a sacrifice, yield not to temptation, if it were not possible.

Like Linda64 stated. Many live such a defeated life. They claim to be of God but have no strength to live for God.

 

[Bro. Curtis]

M.P & webdog, you guys are killing me.

It did come to me that the reason deacons are warned against being "given to much wine" (grapejuice), is they can't be trotting to the outhouse with diareah during sermons ?

 

[npetreley]

M.P & webdog, you guys are killing me.

It did come to me that the reason deacons are warned against being "given to much wine" (grapejuice), is they can't be trotting to the outhouse with diareah during sermons ?

Don't forget the good Samaritan who poured oil and grape juice on the poor fellow's wounds...

 

[KenH]

One drink made Lot drunk.

No, it didn't. That's a load of nonsense.

 

[mcdirector]

Ken, While you are here, would you go to that thread where you said goodbye and tell them you are back because people are still telling you goodbye

 

[npetreley]

On a serious note, I just found this on WikiPedia. it was excellent!

That was an interesting entry. Here's another thing I find interesting. The WCTU (women's Christian temperance union), often regarded as "feminists" before their time, was largely responsible for prohibition. Their motto then and now was/is:

Temperance

may be defined as:
moderation in all things healthful;
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Univers,Zurich BT,sans-serif]total abstinence from all things harmful.
[/FONT][FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Univers,Zurich BT,sans-serif][SIZE=-1]Xenophon (Greek philosopher), 400 B. C.[/SIZE][/FONT]

You would think that if total abstinance was a Biblical concept, they'd quote the Bible instead of a Greek philosopher.

 

[mcdirector]

You would think that if total abstinance was a Biblical concept, they'd quote the Bible instead of a Greek philosopher.

mmmmmmm

mmmmmmmmm

 

[His Blood Spoke My Name]

No, it didn't. That's a load of nonsense.

Study the Word of God. You will find that Lot lost self control after just one drink.

One drink made him drunk.

 

[His Blood Spoke My Name]

That was an interesting entry. Here's another thing I find interesting. The WCTU (women's Christian temperance union), often regarded as "feminists" before their time, was largely responsible for prohibition. Their motto then and now was/is:



You would think that if total abstinance was a Biblical concept, they'd quote the Bible instead of a Greek philosopher.

The Bible has been quoted concerning the command to abstain from alcohol and you will not believe it.

 

[npetreley]

mmmmmmm

mmmmmmmmm

LOL! I actually agree with their objective, which was to combat the then rampant alcohol abuse that led to things like domestic violence. They started off right, just didn't end up right. And, being the women's CHRISTIAN temperance union, you'd think they'd at least make an effort to quote the Bible.

 

[mcdirector]

Genesis 19:33 in 1/2 dozen versions: And they made their father drink wine that night. I can't get one drink from that.

 

[mcdirector]

LOL! I actually agree with their objective, which was to combat the then rampant alcohol abuse that led to things like domestic violence. They started off right, just didn't end up right. And, being the women's CHRISTIAN temperance union, you'd think they'd at least make an effort to quote the Bible.

I agree! I've never even heard of Xenophon!

Personally, when I'm trying to make a biblical point, I like to quote the bible whenever possible.

I also like the moderation in all things heathful point. I have a close family member who is grossly obese. I also have a close family who is anorexic. The gift of moderation in both cases would have saved all involved a great deal of pain.

 

[npetreley]

mc, I liked your links, thanks very much! Here's a great snippet:

Drunkenness is directly forbidden by God, yet wine itself is commended in Scripture.

a) Exodus 29:39-40--Moses commanded the children of Israel to offer one lamb in the morning "and the other lamb thou shalt offer at evening: and with the one lamb a tenth part of flour mixed with the fourth part of an hin of beaten oil; and the fourth part of an hin of wine for a drink offering" (cf. Lev. 23:13). Although this wine offering was not for drinking, it was poured out to God as a libation.

b) 1 Chronicles 9:29--Some "were appointed to oversee the vessels, and all the vessels of the sanctuary, and the fine flour, and the wine, and the oil, and the frankincense, and the spices." It is likely they kept a supply of wine in the Temple for drink offerings.

c) Psalm 104:15--The psalmist said that wine "maketh glad the heart of man" (cf. Judges 9:13).

d) Isaiah 55:1--Isaiah said, "Every one that thirsteth, come to the waters, and he that hath no money; come, buy and eat; yea, come, buy wine and milk without money and without price." Wine here is equated with salvation.

e) John 13:26--Jesus dipped a piece of bread in wine, the two elements of the Lord's Supper (cf. 1 Cor. 11:23-26).

f) 1 Timothy 5:23--Paul told Timothy, "Drink no longer water, but use a little wine for thy stomach's sake and thy frequent infirmities."

g) Luke 10:34--When the Good Samaritan found a beaten man on the side of the road, he "went to him, and bound up his wounds, pouring in oil and wine, and set him on his own beast, and brought him to an inn, and took care of him."

h) Proverbs 31:6-7--King Lemuel said, "Give strong drink unto him that is ready to perish, and wine unto those that are of heavy hearts. Let him drink, and forget his poverty, and remember his misery no more." When someone is sick and about to die, Scripture says give him wine as a sedative to ease his pain.


Drinking is seen in Scripture as a possible destroyer of human life but is also seen as an acceptable and sometimes even commendable act. Like many other things, wine has a potential for good and evil.

Think also that Jesus said we are not defiled by what we put in our mouths, but what comes out of them.

MacArthur understands the difference between use and abuse. That's important. I forget who said it, but someone once quipped that men are often destroyed by abusing sex, too, therefore we should outlaw women.

Perish the thought!!!

 

[gb93433]

The Bible has been quoted concerning the command to abstain from alcohol and you will not believe it.

So you are right and the Christians in almost every other country is wrong? The Christians in most countries do not interpret scripture like you do.

 

[His Blood Spoke My Name]

So you are right and the Christians in almost every other country is wrong? The Christians in most countries do not interpret scripture like you do.

Just because a person says they are a Christian does not automatically make them a Christian any more than putting a bicycle in a garage and calling it a Harley Davidson makes it a motorcycle. There must be evidence of the change in the person. The one professing Christ, in order to truly be a Christian must be found Christ-like. Paul wrote, Be ye followers of me, even as I also [am] of Christ. (1 Corinthians 11:1)

Christ did not drink alcohol, whether people in other countries want to believe it or not.

 

[npetreley]

So you are right and the Christians in almost every other country is wrong? The Christians in most countries do not interpret scripture like you do.

Not only every other country, but the majority of Christians before the mid 1800s. That's when the Bible miraculously changed, but only people like HBSMN noticed it.

 

[gb93433]

Christ did not drink alcohol, whether people in other countries want to believe it or not.

Just how long do you think fresh grape juice would last without any kind of preservatives or refrigeration in the weather that grapes were picked in.

Ever tasted fresh grape juice from Thompson or Tokay grapes? Ever tasted fresh grape juice from any kind of wine grapes?

Do not give me a bunch of nonsense because my parents were grape growers for several years.

 

[gb93433]

Not only every other country, but the majority of Christians before the mid 1800s. That's when the Bible miraculously changed, but only people like HBSMN noticed it.

With the temperance society came a lot of preachers that simply preached what others told them from their stock pile of ignorance. It is no different than those preachers who do not hold fact to the word today and choose to believe the politicians in denominations who seldom study but simply spew out their ignorance in an effort to sound good.