Salvation & grape juice

[His Blood Spoke My Name]

One cannot get drunk on water.

Don't you think doctors would know this? Water intoxication is water poisoning, not water drunkenness. Water poisoning makes one sick in ways entirely different that alcohol makes one sick.

Alcohol was never meant to go into a person's body.

 

[TaterTot]

I had some cough syrup last week. Am I going to hell now? :tonofbricks:

 

[npetreley]

I had some cough syrup last week. Am I going to hell now? :tonofbricks:

If thy cough offends thee, pluck out your lungs. It is better to enter heaven without lungs than to take cough syrup and go to hell.

:saint:

 

[Amy.G]

If thy cough offends thee, pluck out your lungs. It is better to enter heaven without lungs than to take cough syrup and go to hell.

:saint:

 

[pinoybaptist]

.......
Alcohol was never meant to go into a person's body.

So.
Anybody got a bad stomach frequently,like Timothy ?

Drink grape juice, ya'll.

 

[His Blood Spoke My Name]

So.
Anybody got a bad stomach frequently,like Timothy ?

Drink grape juice, ya'll.

That was exactly what Paul was telling the young pastor Timothy... drink grape juice.

Why would Paul tell Timothy in one place that the Bishop/Pastor/Elder was not to be given to wine (was to abstain from drinking fermented wine) and then turn around and tell him to drink it?

The answer, he wouldn't.

Paul was telling Timothy to drink grape juice for its health benefits.

 

[npetreley]

No longer drink only water, but use a little wine for your stomach’s sake and your frequent infirmities.

New Testament Greek for ' wine '

3631 oinos {oy'-nos}
a primary word (or perhaps of Hebrew origin 03196); TDNT - 5:162,680; n m
AV - wine 32, winepress + 3125 1; 33
1) wine
2) metaph. fiery wine of God's wrath
(strong's number 3631)


Yes, it's the same word used in:

And do not be drunk with wine, in which is dissipation

However, it is not the same word used here:

2 A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, temperate, sober-minded, of good behavior, hospitable, able to teach; 3 not given to wine

New Testament Greek for ' given to wine '

3943 paroinos {par'-oy-nos}
from 3844 and 3631;; adj
AV - given to wine 2; 2
1) given to wine, drunken
(strong's number 3943)

In other words, 1 Timothy 3:3 is not a command to ABSTAIN FROM ALL WINE, it is a command that bishops should not be drunken.

Same goes for 1 Timothy 3:8, which says "given to MUCH wine", where it uses oinos, but is modified by "much".

Is there even a single translation that translates oinos as "grape juice"? I know of none.

 

[His Blood Spoke My Name]

Funny, only version that I can find oinos being translated as 'alcohol' is God's Word for the Nations.

And many Scholars have denied that version being a trustworthy version.

 

[npetreley]

Funny, only version that I can find oinos being translated as 'alcohol' is God's Word for the Nations.

And many Scholars have denied that version being a trustworthy version.

Why would anyone translate oinos as alcohol, and what does that have to do with the price of tea in China? The word "oinos" means wine. It doesn't mean "alcohol" and it doesn't mean "grape juice". It means wine.

 

[His Blood Spoke My Name]

New Testament Greek for ' wine '

3631 oinos {oy'-nos}
a primary word (or perhaps of Hebrew origin 03196); TDNT - 5:162,680; n m
AV - wine 32, winepress + 3125 1; 33
1) wine
2) metaph. fiery wine of God's wrath
(strong's number 3631)


Yes, it's the same word used in:


However, it is not the same word used here:


New Testament Greek for ' given to wine '

3943 paroinos {par'-oy-nos}
from 3844 and 3631;; adj
AV - given to wine 2; 2
1) given to wine, drunken
(strong's number 3943)

In other words, 1 Timothy 3:3 is not a command to ABSTAIN FROM ALL WINE, it is a command that bishops should not be drunken.

Same goes for 1 Timothy 3:8, which says "given to MUCH wine", where it uses oinos, but is modified by "much".

Is there even a single translation that translates oinos as "grape juice"? I know of none.

With your logic, then Titus 1:7, which reads:

For a bishop must be blameless, as the steward of God; not selfwilled, not soon angry, not given to wine, no striker, not given to filthy lucre; (Titus 1:7)

should actually be translated

For a bishop must be blameless, as the steward of God, not selfwilled, not soon angry, don't abstain from alcoholic beverage, not be a striker, don't abstain from filthy lucre.

 

[His Blood Spoke My Name]

Why would anyone translate oinos as alcohol, and what does that have to do with the price of tea in China? The word "oinos" means wine. It doesn't mean "alcohol" and it doesn't mean "grape juice". It means wine.

wine, in Bible times was either alcoholic, or non-alcoholic.

 

[npetreley]

With your logic, then Titus 1:7, which reads:

should actually be translated

Huh? You're not making any sense. It is translated fine. The expression "given to wine" means "drunken". Bishops should not be "given to wine" or "drunken". It doesn't mean they should abstain completely. It doesn't require that they drink wine, either. It just says they shouldn't be drunks.

 

[npetreley]

wine, in Bible times was either alcoholic, or non-alcoholic.

And YOU know which is which? Don't tell me. Wherever it speaks of wine in a good sense, it must be grape juice, and whenever it speaks of wine in a negative context, it must be alcoholic -- even though the text uses exactly the same word in both cases.

The writers knew how to differentiate between wine and grape juice, so why didn't they? Because wherever the word "oinos" appears it means wine. "Given to wine" does not mean "given to grape juice". Addicted to much wine does not mean addicted to much grape juice. Drink a little wine because of your frequent stomach ailments does not mean drink a little grape juice.

 

[His Blood Spoke My Name]

Huh? You're not making any sense. It is translated fine. The expression "given to wine" means "drunken". Bishops should not be "given to wine" or "drunken". It doesn't mean they should abstain completely. It doesn't require that they drink wine, either. It just says they shouldn't be drunks.

then by that same logic Titus 1:7 should say they can indulge in filthy lucre... but only in moderation.

both verses use the same phrase "not given to".

 

[His Blood Spoke My Name]

And YOU know which is which? Don't tell me. Wherever it speaks of wine in a good sense, it must be grape juice, and whenever it speaks of wine in a negative context, it must be alcoholic -- even though the text uses exactly the same word in both cases.

The writers knew how to differentiate between wine and grape juice, so why didn't they? Because wherever the word "oinos" appears it means wine. "Given to wine" does not mean "given to grape juice". Addicted to much wine does not mean addicted to much grape juice. Drink a little wine because of your frequent stomach ailments does not mean drink a little grape juice.

We use many words today called 'homonyms' that are spelled the same, but mean entirely different things.

Study the Word of God and you will find that not only wine had different meanings, but many other words had different meanings as well.

For instance, if my wife tells me to go to the store to get milk, I have to ask which kind... skim, 2%, 1%, whole, buttermilk, which one?

In Bible times, there were different kinds of wine. sweet wine, sour wine (vinegar), fermented, non-fermented, etc... Only context shows which it was. Just as you said...

Wherever it speaks of wine in a good sense, it must be grape juice, and whenever it speaks of wine in a negative context, it must be alcoholic

 

[npetreley]

then by that same logic Titus 1:7 should say they can indulge in filthy lucre... but only in moderation.

both verses use the same phrase "not given to".

Well, I hope they can indulge in filthy lucre in moderation (filthy lucre in moderation simply means "money"). They may need to buy something sooner or later.

Money isn't evil. The love of money is a root of all kinds of evil, however.

And there aren't two different kinds of money in the NT, one which is clean, and one which is filthy.

 

[npetreley]

We use many words today called 'homonyms' that are spelled the same, but mean entirely different things.

Homonym
1 a : HOMOPHONE b : HOMOGRAPH c : one of two or more words spelled and pronounced alike but different in meaning (as the noun quail and the verb quail)

The word "wine" need not apply here. The verb "to wine" means to ply with wine. The verb "to whine" means something else, but is spelled differently.

I'm just joking around, but it amazes me the lengths to which you will go to perpetuate your personal agenda. "Wine" is "wine". There's never any implication whatsoever that it ever means "grape juice". And the translators obviously agree, since nobody ever translates it as "grape juice".

 

[His Blood Spoke My Name]

my personal agenda?

You must have misread the OP. I was not the one who opened this thread.

Mine is more of a mission. To present the truth that is written in God's Word... which I have done.

 

[Dale-c]

What gets me Npet is all the people that have a fit about the word "world" in the debates about soteriology and yet they will twist the word wine everyway that makes their own point and adds to their own holiness.

 

[npetreley]

Mine is more of a mission. To present the truth that is written in God's Word... which I have done.

Good luck with your mission. I believe I have presented the truth in God's word, too. Wine is wine, not grape juice.

One of us will find out we're wrong. Until then, enjoy your mission.