Satan Murdered Jesus - The Scripture and Theology

[Arthur King]

What idea is expressed in those passages? Tell me. The fact that neither you nor @kyredneck can find anything to object to in them, might just tell you that you should trust them instead of two passages which don't mean what you think they mean.
I can say exactly the same thing to you. You are refusing to re-examine your views in the light of a whole pile of Scriptures.
What is it that prevents you from accepting the plain meaning of the texts? 'HE has put Him to grief.' 'I will strike the Shepherd.' What is so difficult and complicated about these verses that you reject them?

Scripture says that wicked men acted according to God's predetermined plan. Acts of the Apostles 4:27 gives a whole list of them. None of them is Satan. It does not say they acted under Satan's influence. You are giving Satan glory that belongs to God.
The Lord Jesus Christ says, "No one takes My life from Me. I lay it down of Myself." Yet the title of this thread is "Satan murdered Jesus." How can you possibly go along with that?

"The Lord Jesus Christ says, "No one takes My life from Me. I lay it down of Myself." Yet the title of this thread is "Satan murdered Jesus." How can you possibly go along with that?"

"Murder" means unjust killing. That is, the killing of an innocent person in violation of the commandment "No murder," which means it is always wrong to kill an innocent human being.

That Jesus laid down his life willingly does nothing to refute the idea that he was killed unjustly, undeservedly, that he was murdered as an innocent human being.

"Scripture says that wicked men acted according to God's predetermined plan. Acts of the Apostles 4:27 gives a whole list of them. None of them is Satan. It does not say they acted under Satan's influence. You are giving Satan glory that belongs to God."

This is a silly argument from silence from one passage. My argument does not require that every passage mention Satan as the murderer of Jesus, obviously, only that at least one passage says that Satan is the murderer of Jesus. And I don't have just one, but many. See the OP.

And charging the devil with injustice does not give him glory.

"'HE has put Him to grief.' 'I will strike the Shepherd.' What is so difficult and complicated about these verses that you reject them?"

These verses provide no evidence against Jesus being put to death unjustly by the hands of sinners. There are plenty of passages in Scripture (see Psalm 44, Job 1-3) in which innocent people who are suffering unjustly at the hands of Satan and sinners use the language of "crushing" and "his hand against" regarding the actions of God.

Language of God "striking" "crushing" or "turning his hand against" simply does not provide evidence against events in which innocent persons suffer unjustly.

Isaiah 53 explicitly states that Jesus suffered unjustly.
v8 - In humiliation, justice was denied him
v9 - He had done no violence,Nor was there any deceit in His mouth

And the longest NT commentary on Isaiah 53, 1 Peter 2, explicitly discusses the Servant's suffering as unjust, going as far as to say that it is unjust suffering that in fact finds grace with God. How can grace be found? Unjust suffering. Who is the only one who can truly suffer unjustly? Jesus.

 

[Arthur King]

Here is what scripture actually teaches:
1) Jesus death was a victory over Satan. Hebrews 2:14
2) Yes, the people who carried out God's plan were sinners under the influence of Satan. Not in dispute.
3) Acts 2:23 says Jesus was put to death according to God's predetermined plan.

But there are no passages supporting:
1) "Describing Satan as the author of Christ's death...."
2) "His [Christ's] death was a sin,
3) "His death was unjust,"
4) " His death was the act of evil,'

Christ is the author of eternal salvation.

First set of 1-3 complete agreement.

Second set of 1-4.

1) What do you mean by "author"? Obviously, Satan did not predestine Jesus' death, because Satan cannot predestine anything. But Satan murdered Jesus. Scripture explicitly says that (see the OP)
2) You are saying that those who put Jesus to death did NOT act sinfully in doing so?
3) Isaiah 53 explicitly says that Jesus' death was unjust:
v8 - In humiliation, justice was denied him
v9 - He had done no violence,Nor was there any deceit in His mouth

And the longest NT commentary on Isaiah 53, 1 Peter 2, explicitly discusses the Servant's suffering as unjust, going as far as to say that it is unjust suffering that in fact finds grace with God. How can grace be found? Unjust suffering. Who is the only one who can truly suffer unjustly? Jesus.

Also see Luke 23, in which the penitent criminal says that "we are suffering under the same sentence of condemnation, but while I am suffering justly for my deeds, this man has done nothing wrong." His logic is not "in my place condemned he stands" but "we are under the same condemnation, me justly and Jesus unjustly."

4) You are saying that those who put Jesus to death were NOT doing evil?

 

[Van]

This is not what the Bible says.

Jesus' death was according to the predetermined plan of God.

BUT it was attributed not to God but to the wicked.

Peter attributed the torture and killing of Jesus to wicked men, and the act a sin (in Peters' sermon recorded in Acts).

In Psalm 22 the torture and upcoming death is attributed to "evil doers".

Jesus' betrayal is attributed to Satan, as Satan entered Judas.

Jesus even forgave the men because they did not know what it is they were doing.

No, Scripture records that Satan authored Christ's death. But this was the predetermined plan of God.

LOL, now Jesus was murdered by Satan becomes "was attributed to the wicked."

Where did Peter say killing Jesus was a sin?

The fact those carrying out God's plan were influenced by Satan again is not in dispute.

Here is a question for those still able to grasp reality, when sinful people act in sinful ways that are according to God's predetermined plan for good, would God choose not to hold those actions against them, but rather would forgive them.
Would God compel people to kill Jesus, then punish them for those compelled actions. The answers, of course are no.

 

[Van]

First set of 1-3 complete agreement.

Second set of 1-4.

1) What do you mean by "author"? Obviously, Satan did not predestine Jesus' death, because Satan cannot predestine anything. But Satan murdered Jesus. Scripture explicitly says that (see the OP)
2) You are saying that those who put Jesus to death did NOT act sinfully in doing so?
3) Isaiah 53 explicitly says that Jesus' death was unjust:
v8 - In humiliation, justice was denied him
v9 - He had done no violence,Nor was there any deceit in His mouth

And the longest NT commentary on Isaiah 53, 1 Peter 2, explicitly discusses the Servant's suffering as unjust, going as far as to say that it is unjust suffering that in fact finds grace with God. How can grace be found? Unjust suffering. Who is the only one who can truly suffer unjustly? Jesus.

Also see Luke 23, in which the penitent criminal says that "we are suffering under the same sentence of condemnation, but while I am suffering justly for my deeds, this man has done nothing wrong." His logic is not "in my place condemned he stands" but "we are under the same condemnation, me justly and Jesus unjustly."

4) You are saying that those who put Jesus to death were NOT doing evil?

1) There are no passages describing Satan as the author of Christ's death.
2) Yes, those who put Christ to death acted sinfully.
3) Isaiah 53 explicitly says Jesus's travail shall justify many.
4) Isaiah 53:8 says Christ's trial was unjust. And of course His death was the death of the just for the unjust.
5) No one said or implied Jesus did anything wrong.
6) 1 Peter 2 says Jesus committed to Him who judges righteously, which is the opposite to the false claim.

 

[JonC]

LOL, now Jesus was murdered by Satan becomes "was attributed to the wicked."

Where did Peter say killing Jesus was a sin?

The fact those carrying out God's plan were influenced by Satan again is not in dispute.

Here is a question for those still able to grasp reality, when sinful people act in sinful ways that are according to God's predetermined plan for good, would God choose not to hold those actions against them, but rather would forgive them.
Would God compel people to kill Jesus, then punish them for those compelled actions. The answers, of course are no.

Yes. Wickedness is of Satan. Satan entered Judas. And it was Satan who "struck" Christ.

The truth is that God did not compel the men to kill Jesus. Satan did. It was Satan who orgrastrated Christ's death. It was Satan that "struck" His heel.

This is why Peter called Christ's killing a sin. And this is why Peter urged those men to repent that they might be forgiven that sin.

No. God did not cause those men to sin (as you suggest). Satan authored their sin. God tempts nobody to sin.

 

[Martin Marprelate]

<still waiting>

'Patience is a virtue;
Possess it if you can.'

Unfortunately it takes more time to refute error than it does to compose it.

 

[JonC]

'Patience is a virtue;
Possess it if you can.'

Unfortunately it takes more time to refute error than it does to compose it.

Not really. If you believe he is in error all you need to do is provide Scripture refuting his "error".

That's the great thing about our faith. We don't test doctrine against theory, philosophy, or other doctrine. We test doctrine against "what is written" in God's Word.

In order to refute ideas like Satan entered Judas, the killing of Christ was evil, the "serpent" struck His heel, "evildoers" and "wicked men" killed Christ but this was according to God's predetermined plan, it was His will to crush Him, to put Him to grief.....all you need to do is prove de a verse rejecting those "errors".

 

[Martin Marprelate]

Not really. If you believe he is in error all you need to do is provide Scripture refuting his "error".

That's the great thing about our faith. We don't test doctrine against theory, philosophy, or other doctrine. We test doctrine against "what is written" in God's Word.

In order to refute ideas like Satan entered Judas, the killing of Christ was evil, the "serpent" struck His heel, "evildoers" and "wicked men" killed Christ but this was according to God's predetermined plan, it was His will to crush Him, to put Him to grief.....all you need to do is prove de a verse rejecting those "errors".

I have done so several times. But you are so stuck on your theory that you are blind to the multiple Scriptures that I have posted.

 

[JonC]

I have done so several times. But you are so stuck on your theory that you are blind to the multiple Scriptures that I have posted.

I admit that you have provided several passages stating that Christ's death was God's will, it pleased God to strike Him, to put Him to grief, and it was God's predetermined plan.

But we all agree on that.

The disagreement arose over your denial that Christ's killing was "evil", committed by "wicked men", by "evil doers", was a sin against God, that it was orgrastrated by Satan (specifically that Satan entered Judas) and that this was the "Serpent striking His heel".

What you have done is ignore all passages describing Christ's death by Satan while offering verses stating that this was God's will and claiming that it meant God killed Jesus.

But no, I am not blind to the passages you offered. I agree with the passages but disagree with what you read into those passages.


Are you still insisting that Satan did not want Christ to be killed (that Satan did not enter Judas, that Christ's death was just, that Christ died at the hands of men following God)?

 

[Martin Marprelate]

[continued from post #49]

It may be as well to look at the history of redemption as it appears in the Bible. It starts well before the Fall. Titus 1:2-3. ‘In hope of eternal life which God, who cannot lie, promised before time began.’ So before there was a First Day, before Adam ever was, before Satan, God had decreed eternal life. That is why our Lord is described as ‘The Lamb slain from the foundation of the world’ (Revelation 13:8). When God said, “Let there be light,” the Saviour was there, ready and waiting. Ready for what? Ready to suffer and die for the likes of you and me. Luke 22:22. “And truly, the Son of Man goes as it has been determined…’ Determined when and where? Where else but in that ‘council of redemption’ made between the Persons of the Trinity before time began? John 6:38-39. “For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me. This is the will of Him who sent Me, that of all He has given Me I should lose nothing, but raise it up at the last day.” There in that heavenly council, the Lord Jesus was given a commission to carry out. Bu whom? Satan? I don’t think so. Was it a wicked deed that was decided in that council, as some appear to believe? No! It was glorious! ‘“The hour has come that the Son of Man should be glorified.......... Now My soul is troubled, and what shall I say? Father, save Me from this hour? But for this purpose I came to this hour. Father, glorify Your name.” Then a voice came from heaven, saying, “I have glorified it and will glorify it again”’ (John 12:23, 27-28). God was glorified in our Lord’s perfect life of sinless obedience, and glorified again by His atoning death and resurrection. Far from being wicked, the cross is the most glorious event in the history of the world! No wonder Isaac Watts wrote: ‘When I survey the wondrous cross….’ Wondrous is what it is.

Now I turn briefly to Hebrews 2:14. ‘….. That through death He might destroy him who had [note the past tense] the power of death, that is, the devil.’ I do hope that no one reading this thread has been deceived into thinking that Satan is or was able to kill people at will. Matthew 10:29. ‘Are not two sparrows sold for a copper coin? And not one of them falls to the ground apart from your Father’s will’ (See also 1 John 5:18). What then was the devil’s ‘power of death? His power of death was that he could accuse sinners before God and demand that He punish them (Revelation 12:10). That power has been taken away by Christ’s atoning death. His power towards God’s people today is limited to deception and temptation. He fires his ‘fiery darts’ at us, and deceives into thinking that he is more powerful than he really is He ‘walks about like a roaring lion, seeking whom he may devour,’ but he may not devour true Christians, who are ‘kept by the power of God through faith for salvation….’ (1 Peter 5:6; 1:5). If we do not raise the shield of faith (Ephesians 6:16) before his missiles, he may well bring us to Doubting Castle and Giant Despair for a time, but ‘He who is in you is greater than he who is in the world’ (1 John 4:4) and the Good Shepherd will not permit even one of His sheep to be lost.

Now we can turn to Genesis 3:14-15. ‘So the LORD God said to the serpent, “Because you have done this, you are cursed more than all cattle, and more than every beast of the field. On your belly you shall go, and you shall eat dust all the days of your life. And I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your seed and her Seed: He shall bruise [or ‘crush’ or ‘strike’] your head and you shall bruise [or ‘crush’ or ‘strike’] His heel.”’

Is there a difference between striking a head and striking a heel? @JonC and @kyredneck say “no.” They say that both are fatal. If that is so, why does the Bible make a difference between them? Why does it not say, ‘You will strike Him and He will strike you’? I am no great expert in medicine or anatomy, but I know that a head wound is more likely to be fatal than a foot wound! What is the imagery contained in these verses? It is of a snake, crawling on its belly, striking at a man who wheels round and stamps on the snake’s head. The prophecy is this: Satan will strike at Christ, and He will turn and strike him fatally.

Now to John 8:37-47. As I have written before, if Satan was to prevent Christ from destroying his works by atoning for His people’s sins on the cross, he had to do one of two things. He had either to lure our Lord into disobeying His Father, so that He would no longer be a perfect sacrifice, or He had to prevent Him from dying on the cross. This he could do either by killing Him before He came to the cross, or by tempting Him not to go there. In the temptation in the wilderness, He sought to tempt our Lord to disobey His Father. Did God send Him into the wilderness to fast? Satan tempted Him to turn stones into bread to eat. Did God Him to preach the Gospel? Satan tempted Him to make a huge showy sign by jumping off the top of the Temple, Did God tell Him to obey Him in all things (John 4:34)? Satan will bid Him bow down to him. At the end we read, ‘When he had finished every temptation, he departed from Him until an opportune time’ (Luke 4:13). So when would have been an opportune time? When would our Lord be experiencing His greatest time of testing? Surely at Gethsemane.

But before that, Satan tries another ploy. He himself has no ability to kill our Lord, but he puts it into the minds of certain Jews that they should kill Him. But until His time comes to be glorified (John 12:23), the Lord Jesus is immortal. They are utterly unable to do it (John 7:30, 32, 44-46; 8:20; 59; 10:31, 39; 11:57). And that is all there is on this matter to John 8:37ff. What does it mean that Satan was a murderer from the beginning (8:44)? It means that he lured our first parents into sin and –the wages of sin being death – brought death to all mankind (Romans 5:12 ff). What does it mean that he is the father of the lie? It means that he told the very first one that ever was: “You shall not surely die….”

But once the time has come for our Lord to die, Satan has to return to Plan A. If Christ dies on the cross, Satan is finished. He seeks every way to discourage Jesus. First of all, he tries to get all this disciples to abandon Him. “Simon, Simon! Indeed, Satan has asked for you [plural] that he may sift you [all] as wheat. But I have prayed for you [singular], that your faith should not fail; and when you have returned to Me, strengthen your brethren” (Luke 22:31-32). So Satan wants them all, but, with the exception of Judas (c.f. v.21) he isn’t allowed to have them, save for a brief time. But Jesus knows that one disciple will betray Him; that all the others will fold up like a house of cards at the moment of His arrest, and that His most fervent follower will deny three times that he knows Him.

So it is no wonder that as they reached Gethsemane, ‘He began to be troubled and deeply distressed. Then He said to them, “My soul is exceedingly sorrowful, even to death. Stay here and watch”’ (Mark 14:33-34). But of course, they all go to sleep, causing Him even more distress. “Could you not watch one hour?” It is in this situation, I believe, that Satan attacks again. If he doesn’t, then Luke 4:13 is a lie. And what is the temptation that he brings to our Lord? Does he say, “Don’t worry about the cross; it will be fine. The Father will be right there with you.” If so, why is the Lord Jesus in such agony (Luke 22:44) that God has to send an angel to strengthen Him? No! Satan is desperate that even at this point Jesus should disobey His Father. “You don’t have to go through with this! You are of equal status with the Father; tell Him You won’t do it!”

Finally, why, if Satan has all the Jewish leaders and people under his thumb, are they all telling Jesus to come down from the cross? The passers-by, the chief priests and scribes, the two criminals (at first, anyway), and the Roman soldiers, are all telling Him to come down. So what is Satan telling Him now? Is he saying, “No, no! Don’t listen to them! You must stay up there”? No, he’s saying, “Listen to those people; they’re mocking You! You don’t have to put up with that. Come down from the cross; then they’ll have to believe in You. Your Father will understand.”

The idea that Satan was so stupid that he didn’t understand what was going on is ridiculous. It was daft when Origen thought it up, and it’s daft now. If we are going to base our theology on what the church fathers taught, we shall have to accept infant baptism and baptismal regeneration

 

[Arthur King]

[continued from post #49]

It may be as well to look at the history of redemption as it appears in the Bible. It starts well before the Fall. Titus 1:2-3. ‘In hope of eternal life which God, who cannot lie, promised before time began.’ So before there was a First Day, before Adam ever was, before Satan, God had decreed eternal life. That is why our Lord is described as ‘The Lamb slain from the foundation of the world’ (Revelation 13:8). When God said, “Let there be light,” the Saviour was there, ready and waiting. Ready for what? Ready to suffer and die for the likes of you and me. Luke 22:22. “And truly, the Son of Man goes as it has been determined…’ Determined when and where? Where else but in that ‘council of redemption’ made between the Persons of the Trinity before time began? John 6:38-39. “For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me. This is the will of Him who sent Me, that of all He has given Me I should lose nothing, but raise it up at the last day.” There in that heavenly council, the Lord Jesus was given a commission to carry out. Bu whom? Satan? I don’t think so. Was it a wicked deed that was decided in that council, as some appear to believe? No! It was glorious! ‘“The hour has come that the Son of Man should be glorified.......... Now My soul is troubled, and what shall I say? Father, save Me from this hour? But for this purpose I came to this hour. Father, glorify Your name.” Then a voice came from heaven, saying, “I have glorified it and will glorify it again”’ (John 12:23, 27-28). God was glorified in our Lord’s perfect life of sinless obedience, and glorified again by His atoning death and resurrection. Far from being wicked, the cross is the most glorious event in the history of the world! No wonder Isaac Watts wrote: ‘When I survey the wondrous cross….’ Wondrous is what it is.

Now I turn briefly to Hebrews 2:14. ‘….. That through death He might destroy him who had [note the past tense] the power of death, that is, the devil.’ I do hope that no one reading this thread has been deceived into thinking that Satan is or was able to kill people at will. Matthew 10:29. ‘Are not two sparrows sold for a copper coin? And not one of them falls to the ground apart from your Father’s will’ (See also 1 John 5:18). What then was the devil’s ‘power of death? His power of death was that he could accuse sinners before God and demand that He punish them (Revelation 12:10). That power has been taken away by Christ’s atoning death. His power towards God’s people today is limited to deception and temptation. He fires his ‘fiery darts’ at us, and deceives into thinking that he is more powerful than he really is He ‘walks about like a roaring lion, seeking whom he may devour,’ but he may not devour true Christians, who are ‘kept by the power of God through faith for salvation….’ (1 Peter 5:6; 1:5). If we do not raise the shield of faith (Ephesians 6:16) before his missiles, he may well bring us to Doubting Castle and Giant Despair for a time, but ‘He who is in you is greater than he who is in the world’ (1 John 4:4) and the Good Shepherd will not permit even one of His sheep to be lost.

Now we can turn to Genesis 3:14-15. ‘So the LORD God said to the serpent, “Because you have done this, you are cursed more than all cattle, and more than every beast of the field. On your belly you shall go, and you shall eat dust all the days of your life. And I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your seed and her Seed: He shall bruise [or ‘crush’ or ‘strike’] your head and you shall bruise [or ‘crush’ or ‘strike’] His heel.”’

Is there a difference between striking a head and striking a heel? @JonC and @kyredneck say “no.” They say that both are fatal. If that is so, why does the Bible make a difference between them? Why does it not say, ‘You will strike Him and He will strike you’? I am no great expert in medicine or anatomy, but I know that a head wound is more likely to be fatal than a foot wound! What is the imagery contained in these verses? It is of a snake, crawling on its belly, striking at a man who wheels round and stamps on the snake’s head. The prophecy is this: Satan will strike at Christ, and He will turn and strike him fatally.

"There in that heavenly council, the Lord Jesus was given a commission to carry out. Bu whom? Satan? I don’t think so."

Absolutely no one is arguing that Satan commissioned Jesus to go to the cross.

"Was it a wicked deed that was decided in that council, as some appear to believe? No! It was glorious!"

The actions of God on the cross indeed were glorious. The actions of sinners were—wait for it—sinful. Sinners including human beings, demons, and Satan.

I do hope that no one reading this thread has been deceived into thinking that Satan is or was able to kill people at will. Matthew 10:29. ‘Are not two sparrows sold for a copper coin? And not one of them falls to the ground apart from your Father’s will’

This is a misapplication of God's sovereignty. God's sovereignty does not mean his creatures cannot commit murder. It means they cannot commit murder outside of what God has permitted to happen within his predestination of history.

Satan is able to enter people and move them to kill. He did it to Cain and he did it to Judas.

Agree with you as well that he has the power of accusation.

But Jesus calls the devil a murderer flat out. He says that the deeds and desires of the devil are to kill him. Again, your argument is with the explicit words of Jesus.

"Is there a difference between striking a head and striking a heel?"

Are you saying that snake bites to the heel are not fatal? A snake bite to the heel in the ANE absolutely would be considered fatal. See the fiery serpents in Numbers. This is silly.

"Finally, why, if Satan has all the Jewish leaders and people under his thumb, are they all telling Jesus to come down from the cross?"

Again, my analysis that Satan wanted Jesus to forsake God and then die reconciles all of the data we have. All the actions and intentions of the characters in the scene make sense under my analysis.

 

[kyredneck]

Is there a difference between striking a head and striking a heel? @JonC and @kyredneck say “no.”

No we don't, 'striking the heel' just leaves wiggle room for His resurrection because the grave could not hold Him [Acts of the Apostles 2:24], just as the dragon chasing the Woman to devour Her child and suddenly the man child is caught unto God and His throne.

 

[kyredneck]

But you are so stuck on your theory

You're the one 'stuck' on this unscriptural notion that Satan had nothing to do with the crucifixion.

@McCree79 tried to bring up a salient point with you on another thread:

You're assuming Satan understood the nature of the atonement. If Satan understood the nature of Christ death, he would have acted much differently when he entered into Judas. Satan got out played by God and did exactly what God wanted him to do. Which is to play a part in the death of the Son...which is the "bruise the heel" that KYRedneck is reffering to.

...which you [typically] blew off:

Really?
You make Satan out to be awfully stupid.

Interesting article from a group that holds to PST:

"Satan was integral in the betrayal, arrest, torture, and execution of Jesus. During Jesus’ final meal with his disciples, Satan entered into Judas to betray Jesus (Jn. 13:2, 27; Lk. 22:3). Revelation 12 tells us that Satan couldn’t wait to get his hands on Jesus, so that he could “devour” him (Rev. 12:4).

The question is simple: Why?

If Jesus’ death ultimately brought about the defeat of Satan (1 Jn. 3:8; Col. 2:14-15), why would Satan do this? As we’ve already seen, Satan is a remarkably intelligent being. Why would he follow through with his plot to kill Jesus, if this would lead to his eventual demise?

Different explanations
Theologians have offered at least three different reasons for why Satan crucified Jesus:

(1) Satan the SUBMISSIVE. Those in the Reformed tradition often argue that Satan crucified Jesus, because God is sovereign and made him do it (Acts 2:23). We have no problem with God overriding Satan’s freewill to do such a thing. Since God is sovereign, this could very well be the case.

(2) Satan the SADIST. Since Satan is a bloodthirsty murderer (Rev. 12:4; Jn. 8:44), perhaps he simply couldn’t help himself. While he knew that the crucifixion of Jesus would open up heaven for humanity, perhaps he simply couldn’t resist torturing and killing the Son of God.

(3) Satan the SEIZER. This perspective fits under the notion of Christus Victor (see “Defending Substitutionary Atonement”). Under this view, Satan thought he could hold Jesus in death, but he underestimated the power of his resurrection (Heb. 2:14).

All three of these theories are certainly plausible. But there is another theory that has more explanatory power than all others: Satan didn’t know what would happen if he crucified Jesus. This theory is espoused by my friend and mentor Dennis McCallum in his excellent book Satan and His Kingdom. We will look closely at this here.

Couldn’t Satan have read the prophecies about Jesus in the OT?
Certainly the prophecies about Jesus in the OT are abundant (see Jesus and Messianic Prophecy). Satan definitely knew of these prophecies. In fact, we see Satan citing Scripture from memory in his interactions with Jesus (Mt. 4; Lk. 4). Thus the question is not whether Satan was aware of these predictions. Instead, the question is whether he understood them. Did Satan expect Jesus to come as the Suffering Servant, or was he expecting a Conquering King like everyone else (Jn. 6:15)?

No one before Jesus believed that the Messiah was going to come to die before he came to rule the Earth. We find no extrabiblical commentators who believed that Isaiah 53 referred to the death and resurrection of the Messiah. NT scholar George Ladd writes, “Judaism before Christ never interpreted [Isaiah 53] as referring to the sufferings of the Messiah.”[1] NT scholar D.A. Carson concurs, “There does not seem to be an unambiguous pre-Christian source within Judaism that identifies the Suffering Servant of Isa. 53 with the anticipated Messiah.”[2] Even critic Bart Ehrman agrees, “We do not have a single Jewish text prior to the time of Jesus that interprets the passage messianically.”[3]

This shouldn’t surprise us. Even throughout Jesus’ life, the people around him did not understand the purpose of his mission on Earth....." Why Did Satan Crucify Jesus? | Evidence Unseen

 

[JonC]

[continued from post #49]

It may be as well to look at the history of redemption as it appears in the Bible. It starts well before the Fall. Titus 1:2-3. ‘In hope of eternal life which God, who cannot lie, promised before time began.’ So before there was a First Day, before Adam ever was, before Satan, God had decreed eternal life. That is why our Lord is described as ‘The Lamb slain from the foundation of the world’ (Revelation 13:8). When God said, “Let there be light,” the Saviour was there, ready and waiting. Ready for what? Ready to suffer and die for the likes of you and me. Luke 22:22. “And truly, the Son of Man goes as it has been determined…’ Determined when and where? Where else but in that ‘council of redemption’ made between the Persons of the Trinity before time began? John 6:38-39. “For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me. This is the will of Him who sent Me, that of all He has given Me I should lose nothing, but raise it up at the last day.” There in that heavenly council, the Lord Jesus was given a commission to carry out. Bu whom? Satan? I don’t think so. Was it a wicked deed that was decided in that council, as some appear to believe? No! It was glorious! ‘“The hour has come that the Son of Man should be glorified.......... Now My soul is troubled, and what shall I say? Father, save Me from this hour? But for this purpose I came to this hour. Father, glorify Your name.” Then a voice came from heaven, saying, “I have glorified it and will glorify it again”’ (John 12:23, 27-28). God was glorified in our Lord’s perfect life of sinless obedience, and glorified again by His atoning death and resurrection. Far from being wicked, the cross is the most glorious event in the history of the world! No wonder Isaac Watts wrote: ‘When I survey the wondrous cross….’ Wondrous is what it is.

Now I turn briefly to Hebrews 2:14. ‘….. That through death He might destroy him who had [note the past tense] the power of death, that is, the devil.’ I do hope that no one reading this thread has been deceived into thinking that Satan is or was able to kill people at will. Matthew 10:29. ‘Are not two sparrows sold for a copper coin? And not one of them falls to the ground apart from your Father’s will’ (See also 1 John 5:18). What then was the devil’s ‘power of death? His power of death was that he could accuse sinners before God and demand that He punish them (Revelation 12:10). That power has been taken away by Christ’s atoning death. His power towards God’s people today is limited to deception and temptation. He fires his ‘fiery darts’ at us, and deceives into thinking that he is more powerful than he really is He ‘walks about like a roaring lion, seeking whom he may devour,’ but he may not devour true Christians, who are ‘kept by the power of God through faith for salvation….’ (1 Peter 5:6; 1:5). If we do not raise the shield of faith (Ephesians 6:16) before his missiles, he may well bring us to Doubting Castle and Giant Despair for a time, but ‘He who is in you is greater than he who is in the world’ (1 John 4:4) and the Good Shepherd will not permit even one of His sheep to be lost.

Now we can turn to Genesis 3:14-15. ‘So the LORD God said to the serpent, “Because you have done this, you are cursed more than all cattle, and more than every beast of the field. On your belly you shall go, and you shall eat dust all the days of your life. And I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your seed and her Seed: He shall bruise [or ‘crush’ or ‘strike’] your head and you shall bruise [or ‘crush’ or ‘strike’] His heel.”’

Is there a difference between striking a head and striking a heel? @JonC and @kyredneck say “no.” They say that both are fatal. If that is so, why does the Bible make a difference between them? Why does it not say, ‘You will strike Him and He will strike you’? I am no great expert in medicine or anatomy, but I know that a head wound is more likely to be fatal than a foot wound!

What a strange post .

I can't answer for @kyredneck , but for my part the post is absolutely false.

I posted that a serpent striking a man's heel is deadly. I think we all realize this (hence the need for snake boots and antivenom). But it was a stark image to those who work the land.

A snake striking the heel was fatal. It is a very old image.

I assume there are no snakes in the UK?

So yes, the serpent striking the heel of the Seed of the Woman does indicate physical death.

BUT I also said that the man crushing the head of the serpent is completely defeating the Serpent.




I have to ask again.....do you believe that Satan entered Judas? Do you believe that Jesus told Judas (Satan) to do what he was to do quickly?


Your mistake is you assume that Satan believes he can win. If you read Scripture you may come across a verse where the demons tell Jesus it is not yet their time.


Psalm 22 could help you out. Those people were not tempting Jesus to come down, to disobey. They were mocking Him. That is why the passages says that they were mocking Him.


Do you still deny that Satan entered Judas?

 

[kyredneck]

I posted that a serpent striking a man's heel is deadly.

It was till the point that God raised Him from the dead.

 

[Martin Marprelate]

Well, well! What a surprise. @JonC, @kyredneck and @Arthur King don't agree with me. What a surprise! I knew it was a waste of time before I started.
Those who believe that a wound to the heel is the same as a wound to the head and those who believe that "No one takes My life from Me, but I lay it down of Myself" really means, "Satan will murder Me" will not be persuaded by anything more I can say. So I am finished with this thread.

 

[JonC]

Well, well! What a surprise. @JonC, @kyredneck and @Arthur King don't agree with me. What a surprise! I knew it was a waste of time before I started.
Those who believe that a wound to the heel is the same as a wound to the head and those who believe that "No one takes My life from Me, but I lay it down of Myself" really means, "Satan will murder Me" will not be persuaded by anything more I can say. So I am finished with this thread.

Rather than ad hominem, you could stick to the actual conversation.

I will once again summarize (for your benefit):

The serpent (Satan) strikes the heel of the Seed of the Woman (Christ). Christ crushes Satan head. Both are fatal wounds, but the latter is complete destruction.

Satan entered Judas to betray Christ, to turn Him over to the Jewish authorities

These Jewish authorities are men Jesus referred to as having Satan as their father (they were "of Satan").

Scripture records that Christ would suffer and die under the forces of "evil", the "hands of wicked men", "evil doers" and that the crucifixion was unjust, a sin.

BUT Christ lay down His own life, willingly. He went to His murderers as a "sheep led to the slaughter". He could have saved His life, but He willingly lay down His life in obedience to the Father. It was God's predetermined plan that His Christ died under those powers ("evil", "wicked men", "evil doers", who were committing a sin, under the influence of their "father the Devil", and that Satan enter Judas to turn Jesus over to those authorities).


I (and from what I can tell, @Arthur King and @kyredneck ) differ from you in that we accept all of Scripture rather than viewing the Bible as a smorgasbord where we can pick out what suits our faith.


We agree that Christ lay down His own life. We agree God was pleased to "crush" Him, to put Him to grief. We agree that this was according to God's predetermined plan.

The difference is we also agree with those passages indicating Christ willingly laying down His life to suffer and die under the powers of Satan ("evil", "wicked men", "evil doers", "Satan", their "father the Devil").

Those are passages you flat out reject because they do not fit into your theory. And you are wrong for it.


You seem to think that those verses to be contradictions, but they are not. While many of those passages contradict your theory, they do not contradict one another.

 

[kyredneck]

Satan entered Judas to betray Christ, to turn Him over to the Jewish authorities

lol....Jewish authorities

 

[Arthur King]

Well, well! What a surprise. @JonC, @kyredneck and @Arthur King don't agree with me. What a surprise! I knew it was a waste of time before I started.
Those who believe that a wound to the heel is the same as a wound to the head and those who believe that "No one takes My life from Me, but I lay it down of Myself" really means, "Satan will murder Me" will not be persuaded by anything more I can say. So I am finished with this thread.

Yes, a snake bite to the heel would be considered a fatal wound. Normally, you are right that a wound to the heel would be less injurious than a wound to the head. But we are talking about a strike to the heel from a serpent we know has the power to kill.

Again, the willingness of the one murdered doesn't change the act of murder. Let's say I am one of several hostages. The ones who hold us hostage say they are going to murder one of us. I volunteer myself in order to save the other hostages. My willingness to be the one murdered does not change the fact that they are murdering me. Murder simply means "unjust killing" or "killing of the innocent" and has to do with the innocence or desert of the one killed, not with their willingness.

 

[Van]

SNIP

This is why Peter called Christ's killing a sin.
SNIP

Again, the same claim, and still no reference.
Did I say God compelled those wicked men, under the influence of Satan, to sin? Nope. Why not address what I did say?

Is carrying out God's predetermined plan a sinful act? Nope. Here is the issue, God arranged and orchestrated Christ's crucifixion, and so those acting in accordance with that plan would know they need to "repent" of those "sinful" acts. But did God punish them for carrying out God's predetermined plan? You say yes. But since that does not fit with "my" idea of our "just" God, I say no. Scripture seems silent on the matter.

This is the very same issue as when I say, as a born anew believer, I do not sin. Not that I do not do and think sinful acts and thoughts, for I surely do, but that God does not apply consequences to my sinful acts, as I am forgiven already.