Satan Murdered Jesus - The Scripture and Theology

[JonC]

I did not deny anything in my post that the Bible actually teaches is true; my post shows that the actual cause of Jesus' death was His voluntarily delivering His spirit into the hands of the Father. No human being(s) or Satan had anything to do with His doing so.

I never said that you did.

I said that "Jesus the Nazarene, a man attested to you by God with miracles and wonders and signs which God performed through Him in your midst, just as you yourselves know— this Man, delivered over by the predetermined plan and foreknowledge of God, you nailed to a cross by the hands of godless men and put Him to death. But God raised Him up again, putting an end to the agony of death, since it was impossible for Him to be held in its power."


I agree that Jesus commended His Spirit into the hands of the Father.


I said that I do not believe any passage contradicts another.

 

[Scripture More Accurately]

I said that I do not believe any passage contradicts another.

The Bible never contradicts itself. Any apparent contradictions reveal either human lack of fullness of understanding or human mishandling of one or more biblical statements or both.

 

[Scripture More Accurately]

Rightly interpreting Acts 2:23 requires taking into consideration that Scripture speaks of people killing others when the person spoken of did not actually do the killing:

Matt. 2:16 Then Herod, when he saw that he was mocked of the wise men, was exceeding wroth, and sent forth, and slew all the children that were in Bethlehem, and in all the coasts thereof, from two years old and under, according to the time which he had diligently enquired of the wise men.

Herod did not himself actually with his own bodily actions slay all the children; he commanded others who actually did the killing.

Matt. 14:3 For Herod had laid hold on John, and bound him, and put him in prison for Herodias' sake, his brother Philip's wife.

Herod himself did not with his own bodily actions lay hold of John, bind him, and put him in prison. He commanded others who actually did all these actions.

Mk. 6:16 But when Herod heard thereof, he said, It is John, whom I beheaded: he is risen from the dead.

Lk. 9:9 And Herod said, John have I beheaded: but who is this, of whom I hear such things? And he desired to see him.

Herod himself did not with his own bodily actions behead John. Herod commanded someone else to do so; the executioner was the one who actually beheaded John:

Mark 6:27 And immediately the king sent an executioner, and commanded his head to be brought: and he went and beheaded him in the prison

Concerning the death of Jesus, no human being(s) or Satan actually took Jesus' spirit from Him so that He died. Jesus died only because He voluntarily delivered His spirit into the hands of the Father. Neither wicked men nor Satan had anything to do with His actual death.

 

[JonC]

The Bible never contradicts itself. Any apparent contradictions reveal either human lack of fullness of understanding or human mishandling of one or more biblical statements or both.

In this case there is nothing contradiction at all. It is dangerous when people chalk up things to mystery (when they chalk up things that have actually been written in Scripture to mystery).

So what can we know without a doubt?

1. Jesus lay down His own life, nobody took it from Him

2. Those men Jesus said desired His death because they were of their father the Devil doing his work murdered Jesus.

3. Jesus commended His Spirit to the Father.

Those are undeniable truths. We can't pick one or two to chalk up to "mystery". But if we don't understand then we can consider it a "mystery" while still believing it true.

Personally, I do not see those verses as even an apparent contradiction.

 

[kyredneck]

I never claimed “Satan had nothing to do” with Christ’s death.

So, you're not in agreement with @Martin Marprelate - that Satan was actually trying to prevent the crucifixion from happening.

Satan influenced Judas to betray Jesus. Certainly the Jewish leaders actions, though not directly controlled by Satan, reflected Satan’s hatred for God.

...and this, to you, is the fulfillment of "Thou shalt bruise His Heel"?

 

[Alan Gross]

But Satan also was there, committing murder against Jesus on the cross.

the devil orchestrated the crucifixion

-Jesus is explicit that the devil is a murderer who seeks to kill him.

the dragon stood before the woman who was about to give birth, so that when she gave birth he might devour her child."

other narratives that also re-inforce the crucifixion narrative being the work of Satan.

NT explicitly connects Jesus' shed blood to that of Abel's. Abel was murdered by Cain who was mastered by "the beast crouching at his door," a clear allusion to the serpent.

Paul was bitten by the serpent, so also Jesus was murdered by the devil.

before he killed him.

In conclusion: on the cross, Satan murdered Jesus.

...


...
I have never seen a clearer attempt to walk arm a arm with Satan down the Primrose Pathway having the exultation of Satan utmost in the heart and mind, other that the artwork, other graven images, like jewelry that depicts Jesus as remaining on the cross, that emphasize Jesus having died, as if that is the end of the story.
...

onlookers mistakenly believed that Jesus was justly killed by God.

There is no other reason for Jesus to have died, because Jesus had my sins placed upon Him, the wages of the guilty of my sins being Jesus dying, as the result of them, not as thr result of another beings decision to take His Life at will, and against the will of God.

Jesus’ resurrection from death revealed his innocence.

Jesus', resurrection revealed that God's Justice had been satisfied and that God had accepted Jesus payment for the sins of His people, as a Perfect Innocent sacrifice for them.

Jesus rises after suffering a fatal wound.

A comment indicated Jesus didn't remain fatally murdered!!!

Unfortunately, on other threads, Jesus' resurrection, when it is mentioned, is also credited to Satan, as the result of him having murdered Jesus, and Him being Innocent.

The Christless formula there attempts to be. "Satan murdering Jesus = the resurrection of Jesus from the dead", as if Satan were the cause of Jesus' resurrection being the result.
...

the death of Christ resulted in Satan losing the power of death he once had,

who had the power of death, that is, the devil,

Who had the power of death? The devil.

It is appointed unto man by God All Mighty once to die.

Satan has introduced sin into the first man, which is the power of death spoken of, not a captious ability to murder human beings at will, or he would have already killed everybody.
...

...AND it was God that told the devil that he would bruise Christ! Genesis 3:14-15

the serpent would strike the heal of the son. The Son and the serpent simultaneously deliver fatal wounds to one another - and this is precisely what we see happen on the cross.

The point is that the serpent causes a fatal wound to the Son at the same time he suffers a fatal wound from the Son.

So, after crediting the death of the Son of to Satan, our flesh now wants to say that Satan suffered a fatal wound(?) When was that? When did Satan die?

That would be like saying the murder of Jesus included His Divine Nature as if Satan caused God to die.
...

Reading this thread I have felt like I was in a twilight zone episode.

What Satan meant for evil, God, by His Determinant Counsel and Foreknowledge, meant for good.

Satan is an insignificant disposable pawn that was used by God like a June bug on a string and is doomed forever to the fires and torment of the Lake of Fire.

 

[Martin Marprelate]

I said that "Jesus the Nazarene, a man attested to you by God with miracles and wonders and signs which God performed through Him in your midst, just as you yourselves know— this Man, delivered over by the predetermined plan and foreknowledge of God, you nailed to a cross by the hands of godless men and put Him to death. But God raised Him up again, putting an end to the agony of death, since it was impossible for Him to be held in its power."

Just out of interest; where exactly is Satan mention in this passage?

 

[canadyjd]

So, you're not in agreement with @Martin Marprelate - that Satan was actually trying to prevent the crucifixion from happening.

...and this, to you, is the fulfillment of "Thou shalt bruise His Heel"?

So, when Jesus was in the wilderness for 40 days, nearly starved to death, so helpless the angels had to minister to Him, Satan “tempted” Jesus. Had Satan wanted Jesus dead and if Satan had such authority, Satan could have “murdered” Jesus there, couldn’t he?

But Satan tempted Jesus by promising all the kingdoms of the earth. Why? Satan wanted to stop Jesus from going to the cross to make PSA for God’s chosen people.

As far as the “bruising” of the heel of the seed of the woman, I tend to think it refers to all Satanic activity directed toward Christ, Hus people, His ministry etc…. Including Jesus’s arrest, torture, humiliation and crucifixion.

Jesus lay down His life, by His own authority and power, when He delivered His Spirit to God the Father. That was when His body died.

peace to you

 

[kyredneck]

So, when Jesus was in the wilderness for 40 days, nearly starved to death, so helpless the angels had to minister to Him, Satan “tempted” Jesus. Had Satan wanted Jesus dead and if Satan had such authority, Satan could have “murdered” Jesus there, couldn’t he?

Not unless it was God's plan, which it wasn't.

But Satan tempted Jesus by promising all the kingdoms of the earth. Why? Satan wanted to stop Jesus from going to the cross to make PSA for God’s chosen people.

A deep thought for you: Who tempted Christ?

Mark 1:12 At once the Spirit drove Jesus into the wilderness, (biblehub.com)

Consider the invert, that God 'drove' Satan also.

As far as the “bruising” of the heel of the seed of the woman, I tend to think it refers to all Satanic activity directed toward Christ, Hus people, His ministry etc…. Including Jesus’s arrest, torture, humiliation and crucifixion.

Yes, Satan's 'seed' did just that, as foretold in Gensis 3:15.

I strongly recommend that you AND EVERYONE read the article linked at the bottom of this post, particularly as it relates to "the mystery which for ages has been hidden in God".

I found the article very enlightening.

 

[kyredneck]

to make PSA for God’s chosen people.

For the third time.

Satan Murdered Jesus - The Scripture and Theology | Page 9 | Baptist Christian Forums (baptistboard.com)

 

[JonC]

Just out of interest; where exactly is Satan mention in this passage?

Jesus said that those men desired to kill him because they were of their father the Devil, doing his will.

Scripture is not a smorgasbord where we simply pick through it to support theories. It is a narrative.

 

[Martin Marprelate]

Jesus said that those men desired to kill him because they were of their father the Devil, doing his will.

Scripture is not a smorgasbord where we simply pick through it to support theories. It is a narrative.

I'm sorry, where exactly, in the passage you quoted in your post #201 - the one that you began by saying "I said" -does the text so much as mention Satan, let alone hint that he murdered Christ?

 

[JonC]

I'm sorry, where exactly, in the passage you quoted in your post #201 - the one that you began by saying "I said" -does the text so much as mention Satan, let alone hint that he murdered Christ?

Jesus said that the Jews who sought to kill Him did so because they were doing the will of their father the Devil, who was a murderer from the beginning.

Peter addressed these people (these Jews that Jesus said sought to kill Him because they were doing the will of their father the Devil) and said "Jesus the Nazarene, a man attested to you by God with miracles and wonders and signs which God performed through Him in your midst, just as you yourselves know— this Man, delivered over by the predetermined plan and foreknowledge of God, you nailed to a cross by the hands of godless men and put Him to death. But God raised Him up again, putting an end to the agony of death, since it was impossible for Him to be held in its power."


I am not sure what part you do not understand.


Satan entered Judas to betray Jesus and handed Him over to men Jesus said sought to kill Him because they were doing Satan's will, they were of their father the Devil who was a murderer from the start. These men (who Jesus said were doing Satan's will) put Jesus to death via godless men. But God raised Him up again, putting an end to the agony of death, since it was impossible for Him to be held in its power.

If you are having trouble understanding Scripture it may be due to your habit of picking through the Bible trying to support your theories rather than actually beginning with God's Word.

 

[Martin Marprelate]

Jesus said that the Jews who sought to kill Him did so because they were doing the will of their father the Devil, who was a murderer from the beginning.

Peter addressed these people (these Jews that Jesus said sought to kill Him because they were doing the will of their father the Devil) and said "Jesus the Nazarene, a man attested to you by God with miracles and wonders and signs which God performed through Him in your midst, just as you yourselves know— this Man, delivered over by the predetermined plan and foreknowledge of God, you nailed to a cross by the hands of godless men and put Him to death. But God raised Him up again, putting an end to the agony of death, since it was impossible for Him to be held in its power."

According to that text (Acts of the Apostles 2:24, the Jews put him to death by the hands of godless men (presumably the Roman soldiers, according to God's predetermined plan and foreknowledge. There is no mention of Satan whatsoever. You are reading him in, and in doing so putting yourself in agreement with a bunch of Satanists who hold that Satan murdered Christ.

I am not sure what part you do not understand.

I do not understand why you are quoting a passage that does not so much as mention Satan, let alone say that he murdered Christ.

But as for John 8, to which you allude, there is no verse there that says that Satan murdered Jesus. In fact, there is no verse anywhere in the Bible that says that Satan murdered Jesus.
If you are having trouble understanding Scripture it may be due to your habit of picking through the Bible trying to support your theories rather than actually beginning with God's Word.

 

[JonC]

According to that text (Acts of the Apostles 2:24, the Jews put him to death by the hands of godless men (presumably the Roman soldiers, according to God's predetermined plan and foreknowledge. There is no mention of Satan whatsoever. You are reading him in, and in doing so putting yourself in agreement with a bunch of Satanists who hold that Satan murdered Christ.

I do not understand why you are quoting a passage that does not so much as mention Satan, let alone say that he murdered Christ.

But as for John 8, to which you allude, there is no verse there that says that Satan murdered Jesus. In fact, there is no verse anywhere in the Bible that says that Satan murdered Jesus.
If you are having trouble understanding Scripture it may be due to your habit of picking through the Bible trying to support your theories rather than actually beginning with God's Word.

In John Jesus says that the Jews who were seeking to kill Him were of their father the Devil, doing Satan's will as he was a murderer from the start.

In John we see Satan entering Judas to betray Jesus.

Then in Acts Peter gives a sermon to those men (those Jesus said were doing the work of Satan) saying that they murdered Jesus via godless men.

You seem to want to divorce Jesus' words from Scripture and pretend those men who killed Jesus were somehow changed from the men seeking to kill Jesus because they were of Satan.


You are working very hard to reject God's Word. I do not believe it is necessary to do so because it was God's predetermined plan that those children of the Devil murder Jesus.

Then

 

[Martin Marprelate]

In John Jesus says that the Jews who were seeking to kill Him were of their father the Devil, doing Satan's will as he was a murderer from the start.

Satan was a murderer from the beginning because he caused the fall of Adam and Eve into sin. But he can murder no one or even harm them without the express permission of God (Job 1:12; 2:6). The Lord Jesus says that they were like their father because they wanted to kill Jesus. The passage does not say that Satan wanted to kill Jesus, much less that he did so, although, as I have pointed out elsewhere, it is possible that he would have wished to kill our Lord before He had reached the end of His mission (i.e. before John 12:23). Satan's great aim was to prevent our Lord from dying on the cross.

In John we see Satan entering Judas to betray Jesus.

Satan sought to subvert all the apostles (Luke 22:31-32), but he was only allowed to do so to Judas so that the Scriptures (Psalms 41:9; 55:12-14) might be fulfilled. As I have pointed out to you, the Jewish leaders tried repeatedly to kill the Lord Jesus, but failed on each occasion 'because His time had not yet come.' It was God who decided when that time had come, not Satan or anyone else.

Then in Acts Peter gives a sermon to those men (those Jesus said were doing the work of Satan) saying that they murdered Jesus via godless men.

What makes you think they were the same people? Peter addressed more than 3,000 men in his sermon; there were far fewer than that speaking to our Lord in John 8. But quite apart from that, you are adding to Scripture what simply is not there. There is not a single verse that says that Satan murdered Christ - not one!

You seem to want to divorce Jesus' words from Scripture and pretend those men who killed Jesus were somehow changed from the men seeking to kill Jesus because they were of Satan.

I want nothing of the kind as you very well know. You are adding to Scripture what simply is not there.

You are working very hard to reject God's Word. I do not believe it is necessary to do so because it was God's predetermined plan that those children of the Devil murder Jesus.

Now you are modifying the title of the thread. The thread declares that "Satan murdered Jesus." That wicked men actually did the deed is not at issue. The fact is that they were not doing Satan's will, but God's, as Acts 2:23; 4:27-28 very clearly declare. But again, you ignore even clearer evidence. 'It was the LORD's will to bruise Him. HE HAS PUT HIM TO GRIEF.' 'I WILL STRIKE THE SHEPHERD.' 'NO-ONE TAKES MY LIFE FROM ME, BUT I LAY IT DOWN OF MYSELF. I HAVE POWER TO LAY IT DOWN, AND I HAVE POWER TO TAKE IT UP AGAIN. THIS COMMAND I HAVE RECEIVED FROM MY FATHER.' Believe the words of Scripture!

 

[JonC]

Satan was a murderer from the beginning because he caused the fall of Adam and Eve into sin. But he can murder no one or even harm them without the express permission of God (Job 1:12; 2:6). The Lord Jesus says that they were like their father because they wanted to kill Jesus. The passage does not say that Satan wanted to kill Jesus, much less that he did so, although, as I have pointed out elsewhere, it is possible that he would have wished to kill our Lord before He had reached the end of His mission (i.e. before John 12:23). Satan's great aim was to prevent our Lord from dying on the cross.
Satan sought to subvert all the apostles (Luke 22:31-32), but he was only allowed to do so to Judas so that the Scriptures (Psalms 41:9; 55:12-14) might be fulfilled. As I have pointed out to you, the Jewish leaders tried repeatedly to kill the Lord Jesus, but failed on each occasion 'because His time had not yet come.' It was God who decided when that time had come, not Satan or anyone else.
What makes you think they were the same people? Peter addressed more than 3,000 men in his sermon; there were far fewer than that speaking to our Lord in John 8. But quite apart from that, you are adding to Scripture what simply is not there. There is not a single verse that says that Satan murdered Christ - not one!

I want nothing of the kind as you very well know. You are adding to Scripture what simply is not there.

Now you are modifying the title of the thread. The thread declares that "Satan murdered Jesus." That wicked men actually did the deed is not at issue. The fact is that they were not doing Satan's will, but God's, as Acts 2:23; 4:27-28 very clearly declare. But again, you ignore even clearer evidence. 'It was the LORD's will to bruise Him. HE HAS PUT HIM TO GRIEF.' 'I WILL STRIKE THE SHEPHERD.' 'NO-ONE TAKES MY LIFE FROM ME, BUT I LAY IT DOWN OF MYSELF. I HAVE POWER TO LAY IT DOWN, AND I HAVE POWER TO TAKE IT UP AGAIN. THIS COMMAND I HAVE RECEIVED FROM MY FATHER.' Believe the words of Scripture!

Again -

The Bible states that those Jews were seeking to kill Jesus because they were of their father the Devil. Satan desired to kill Jesus. Satan - not God - is a murderer.

Satan entered Judas and handed Jesus over to the Jews Jesus said wanted to kill Him because they were of their father the Devil.

Those men, doing the will of their father the Devil, murdered Jesus.

This was in accordance with the predetermined plan of God.


You are seeking to defend your theory, and I get that. But you are also trying to reason away God's words to us. That is wrong.

Did God kill Jesus? No. Satan killed Jesus using his "children". This was God's predetermined plan.

All of Scripture is important. You need to stop rewriting Scripture and simply take it as revealed to us by God (not by those men you read but in God's written word).


Joseph's brothers sold him. That was sinful. It was God's will. That does not mean that God sinned against Joseph by doing evil. The action rests on Joseph's brothers.

In the Bible God places Christ's death squarely on those men doing the work of Satan.

On one level you have the Romans doing the act. Scripture says that the children of Satan (those Jews doing his will) murdered Jesus via godless men. The next level is Satan. They were doing the work of the Devil.

This was God's will (He was pleased to crush Him, to put Him to grief, His predetermined plan), but just like with Joseph it is wrong to say God committed the sin. It was God's will because of what would come (God raised Him up again, putting an end to the agony of death, since it was impossible for Him to be held in its power).


There are so many verses attributing Christ's death to the Devil, to Satan, to godless men, to wicked men, to evil men, as evil, as sin, and as unjust. And yes, this was God's will - to put Him to grief, to crush Him -, God's predetermined plan. And yes, Christ lay down His own life, it was not taken from Him but He went willingly as a lamb led to slaughter.

But there are no verses stating that God killed Jesus. That is only in your theory and it negates the meaning of gospel of Jesus Christ.

 

[canadyjd]

As someone else pointed out, when you connect the words of our Lord declaring no one takes His life, He lays it down and takes it up by His own authority…. With…

… Our Lord’s statements on the cross “it is finished” and “Father, into thy hands I commend My Spirit….

It seems clear that Jesus chose the time when His Spirit left His body and His physical body died.

Peace to you

 

[JonC]

As someone else pointed out, when you connect the words of our Lord declaring no one takes His life, He lays it down and takes it up by His own authority…. With…

… Our Lord’s statements on the cross “it is finished” and “Father, into thy hands I commend My Spirit….

It seems clear that Jesus chose the time when His Spirit left His body and His physical body died.

Peace to you

He did. He lay down His own life willingly. He was not powerless when He chose to be led as a lamb to slaughter.

But we cannot ignore that Scripture lays the killing of Jesus on men doing the work of their father the Devil, that the Bible describes Christ's death as unjust, sinful, evil, and those who killed Christ as wicked.

All of Scripture matters.


Ignoring that Christ died by the powers of Satan is just as wrong as ignoring that He did so willingly and according to God's predetermined plan.


The problem is when parts of Scripture does not fit into people's theory and they (like Martin is doing) simply ignore it. ALL of Scripture is true.

 

[Scripture More Accurately]

I strongly recommend that you AND EVERYONE read the article linked at the bottom of this post, particularly as it relates to "the mystery which for ages has been hidden in God".

I found the article very enlightening.

I read this article. The author asserts the following:

"Paul seemed to have a clear grasp on the fact that God had kept his plan a secret or mystery from everyone before Christ came. The demonic realm would not have crucified Jesus, if he had understood his plan. For instance, Paul writes,

(1 Cor. 2:6-8) We do speak wisdom among those who are mature; a wisdom, however, not of this age nor of the rulers of this age, who are passing away; 7 but we speak God’s wisdom in a mystery, the hidden wisdom which God predestined before the ages to our glory; 8 the wisdom which none of the rulers of this age has understood; for if they had understood it they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.

Many commentators believe that the “rulers of this age” refer to Pontius Pilate, Caiaphas, Herod, and the Sanhedrin. Yet in Paul’s second letter to the Corinthians, he describes Satan as “the god of this world” (2 Cor. 4:4), and he calls demons “world rulers of this darkness” (Eph. 6:12). Could it be that the world rulers that he is referring to are actually the demonic realm, who were blindsided by the self-sacrificial act of the cross?"​

No, it cannot be that the world rulers that Paul is referring to in 1 Cor. 2:6-8 are demonic beings. Paul specifies that the rulers of this age whom he has in view in those verses "are passing away." The Bible never teaches that Satan and his demons are passing away. The author is wrong in suggesting that as a proper understanding of that passage.