"Save yourself..."

[skypair]

The drift of Peter's expression means to keep yourselves away from the sin and evil practices of the culture of the time . Escape , get out while you can or the punishment that will fall on them is bound to fall on you . Repent and believe what I am telling you . As a result with these and many other words directed to them 3,000 people were added to the Church that day . Actually , all who had been appointed to eternal life believed . Gotta' love the Lord's preordination .

Your "refresher" only reminds us that "escape" involves turning yourselves to God for grace and mercy from "this untoward age." Then you act as if they did nothing themselves. Rip, they repented and believed ... As a result ... 3000 people were added to the church that day!" YOUR words!

Observing that the foregoing is "preordination" defies your own description and makes Pete's description out to be a gross anachronism. First off, you bring in a verse from Acts 13:48 about "ordained to eternal life." Then you would have us think that Peter was a Calvinism??

Perhaps you were construing "as many as the Lord shall call" to be preordination -- but I would construe it that the Lord was calling right there and as many as wanted could come! I read and reread that passage and cannot find your Calvinism in is anywhere (which is why you had to "borrow" it from 11 chapters later no doubt.) Sorry rip, but let's not deceive those who aren't as sophisticated in their theology as you are.

skypair

 

[canadyjd]

In my interpretation, Adam quit hiding (wherein was his separation and "spiritual death) and, when God called again, he went to God.

But your interpretation of scripture does not bare resemblance to what scripture actually says. The Gen. 3 account makes no mention of Adam coming to God when He called. You are building your theology on your assumptions, not on the actual words of scripture. Hence, your error.

Accepting God's "gift" makes us perfect. You are interpretting Adam's excuses as if they were the repentance. No, reviving the relationship through repentance makes receiving salvation possible.

Again, your theology is built upon your assumtions of what the man did, not the actual testimony of what God did. Scripture doens't say a single thing about Adam repenting. It just isn't there.

The scripture focus is on what God did to restore the relationship. The man and his wife did nothing but stand there in their shame until God made the sacrafice and clothed them according to the kind intention of His will.

Who made the "move" when God called -- you or God? God's always been there. Peter said "though He be very near," right? It was YOU that moved, wasn't it? You ran away in sin and come near in repentance.

I repented and believed in Jesus Christ in response to what God had already done to me and for me by Holy Spirit; He regenerated my nature and that allowed me to see my sinfulness and need for a savior. When I responded in faith to what God had already done, He gave to me the Indwelling Holy Spirit as a pledge promise of the promises to me and all others who have acknowledged Jesus in faith.

peace to youraying:

 

[Rippon]

Your "refresher" only reminds us that "escape" involves turning yourselves to God for grace and mercy from "this untoward age." Then you act as if they did nothing themselves. Rip, they repented and believed ... As a result ... 3000 people were added to the church that day!" YOUR words!

I find no contradiction in my words and that of the Scripture I used SP .

Observing that the foregoing is "preordination" defies your own description and makes Pete's description out to be a gross anachronism. First off, you bring in a verse from Acts 13:48 about "ordained to eternal life." Then you would have us think that Peter was a Calvinism??

SP : Acts 13:48b applies to anyone who is saved . HCSB :" ... all who had been appointed to eternal life believed ." They were ordained to believe . Of course they were preordained to believe . See 2 Thess. 2:13 ; 2 Tim. 1:9 ; 1 Peter 1:2 along with Eph. 1:4,5,11 .

SP : I am writing responses to you mainly for the benefit of lurkers . You have spiritual blinders on . These verses and many more I could quote are dismissed by you as meaning things that the author ( really AUTHOR -- for the Lord is the ultimate AUTHOR ) did not intend .

Perhaps you were construing "as many as the Lord shall call" to be preordination -- but I would construe it that the Lord was calling right there and as many as wanted could come! I read and reread that passage and cannot find your Calvinism in is anywhere (which is why you had to "borrow" it from 11 chapters later no doubt.) Sorry rip, but let's not deceive those who aren't as sophisticated in their theology as you are.

Sp : The external call is universal in scope . However , the only ones who have the desire to come are the ones which the Lord has planted the desire to do so . That's known as the effectual call .
Again , anyone who comes to a saving knowledge and union with the Lord -- Acts 13:48 applies . I am not engaging in deception or misrepresentation . That's your realm SP .

 

[skypair]

... He regenerated my nature and that allowed me to see my sinfulness and need for a savior. ...

Well, I'm done arguing with you. The one point I will say is that the Bible says the Spirit CONVICTS you of sin -- not regenerates you of sin -- before you repent.

skypair

 

[skypair]

See 2 Thess. 2:13 ; 2 Tim. 1:9 ; 1 Peter 1:2 along with Eph. 1:4,5,11 .

Rip, Paul 1) speaks of their salvation in the past tense in all those verses.

As such, 2) it is clear that he is NOT preaching the gospel of their/our salvation (as he does in 1Cor 15:1-4, or Luke does in Acts 2:38-40) but giving a prologue to his teaching (notice they are all early in their respective epistles).

3) The one thing those passages have in common is "election" -- the purpose for which God saved us.

Let's don't argue though. Perhaps, you could tell us from those verses what the gospel is. You don't mind sharing the gospel of your salvation with us, do you?

skypair

 

[Frogman]

time salvation

When I was a child we used wood heat. The wood stove would be very hot. My parents taught me to not touch it or I would be burned. My choice to obey or disobey resulted in either my being burned or being 'saved' from being burned. Neither my choice to obey nor to disobey altered my position as a child of my parents.

The OP passage is speaking clearly and emphatically to all who are children of God, the passage is speaking of a salvation in time and is not related to eternal life. All who are able to hear are already children.

bro. Dallas:wavey: :type:

 

[David Lamb]

3) The one thing those passages have in common is "election" -- the purpose for which God saved us.
skypair

I am just checking something with you, Skypair, before I go making a fool of myself because I have misunderstood something:

You say that "election (is) the purpose for which God saved us." Does that mean that you believe God saves sinners in order to elect them? If so, what, in your view, does "elect" mean?

 

[canadyjd]

Well, I'm done arguing with you. The one point I will say is that the Bible says the Spirit CONVICTS you of sin -- not regenerates you of sin -- before you repent.

It also says that those who are "born again" (which I see as regenerated) are done so by the will of Holy Spirit who moves according to His will and men cannot know when and where He will move. (John 3).

And BTW, I wasn't arguing. I pointed out your doctrine is built upon your assumptions, instead of what scripture actually says and in some cases contrary to what the scripture actually says. You asked about how I was saved. I told you. There is nothing to argue about, is there?

peace to youraying:

 

[psalms109:31]

To them

Skypair those are arguing with you think that those are going to be saved by God are going to be saved no matter what we say. I don't see any reason for them arguing with you unless it is just to protect thier own belief system.

If you are wrong and they are right you and they have nothing to worry about, but both of our concerns are if they are wrong people that can be saved will have hell to pay.

To me and you thier message is a message that are leading men to thier own destruction not ours.

You can give them they word, but you cannot make them believe.

God does want all men to be saved and come to the knowledge of the truth.

Yes those who God preordained children who do not lean on thier own understanding, but trust in the name of the Lord believed. God does want all men to be saved and come to the truth, but you have to come come as a child.

You can't pick and chose which scripture you want to believe in, but they all are the truth.

They think they entered through election, but election cannot save you if you do not come to Jesus.

Jesus is the way, not election.

Election is the first step, but you cannot be saved unless you come to Jesus.

Jesus is our hope. When they try to say you are lifting up yourself, lift up Jesus and prove them a liar

 

[canadyjd]

those are arguing with you think that those are going to be saved by God are going to be saved no matter what we say.

Well, yeah. God is the one who chooses, not you and skypair.

If you are wrong and they are right you and they have nothing to worry about, but both of our concerns are if they are wrong people that can be saved will have hell to pay.

Again, you seem to think you are the important part in salvation coming to men, not God, His mercy and grace. If you didn't think it was all about you, you wouldn't be so defensive.

You can give them they word, but you cannot make them believe.

But skypair doesn't give us the Word of God. He gives us skypair's interpretation, based on assumptions that are often contrary to the very words of scripture he is trying to explain. I know he has stated that if you disagree with him, that is blaspheming the Holy Spirit, but I, for one, don't give him quite so much credit.

God does want all men to be saved and come to the knowledge of the truth.

And they all rejected the truth.

Yes those who God preordained children who do not lean on thier own understanding, but trust in the name of the Lord believed.

Praise God for His mercy!!!

You can't pick and chose which scripture you want to believe in, but they all are the truth.

Agreed!

They think they entered through election, but election cannot save you if you do not come to Jesus.

I don't know who "they" are, but I know I was saved by God's grace and mercy.

Election is the first step, but you cannot be saved unless you come to Jesus.

And you won't come to Jesus unless Holy Spirit calls you, regenerates you and leads you to Christ.

Jesus is our hope. When they try to say you are lifting up yourself, lift up Jesus and prove them a liar

You can't lift up Jesus by changing the words of scripture to fit what you want them to mean. You can't lift up Jesus by claiming God, Holy Spirit has so gifted your interpretation of scripture that for anyone to disagree with you is blaspheming Holy Spirit (that is lifting up yourself). You can't lift up Jesus by constantly comparing yourself to the Apostle Paul and others who wrote scripture under inspiration of Holy Spirit.(that is lifting up yourself) You can't lift up Jesus by saying you know better than the person you are talking to how they learned certain doctrine, or why they believe certain doctrine. (As if you can read their minds, or know their lives better than they do)

You can't lift up Jesus be claiming you are the only one who knows how people get to heaven, and if anyone teaches anything other than what you say, they are leading people to destruction.

There, I have had my say.

peace to youraying:

 

[psalms109:31]

Salvation

I cannot save myself for the wages ogf my sin is death. It isn't belief, but death. So it is what God through Jesus did on the cross that saved me

It wasn't me who said it, but God.

I trust in Him, if He say's something it is the truth. He is no liar or a deceiver.

This isn't my words but His.

Psalm 22:5
They cried to you and were saved; in you they trusted and were not disappointed.

Romans 10:11
As the Scripture says, "Anyone who trusts in him will never be put to shame."

1 Timothy 2
:3This is good, and pleases God our Savior, 4who wants all men to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth. 5For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, 6who gave himself as a ransom for all men—the testimony given in its proper time. 7And for this purpose I was appointed a herald and an apostle—I am telling the truth, I am not lying—and a teacher of the true faith to the Gentiles.

Your belief system has been around since the day of Paul, but as Paul has said that God does want all men to be saved and come to the knowledge of the truth and i am not lying to you.

 

[psalms109:31]

Promise to keep

These are the people God preordained and made a promise to keep them.

Zephaniah 3:12
But I will leave within you the meek and humble, who trust in the name of the LORD.

It surely isn't men who have chosen themselves and call themselves the elect of God

 

[skypair]

When I was a child we used wood heat. The wood stove would be very hot. My parents taught me to not touch it or I would be burned. My choice to obey or disobey resulted in either my being burned or being 'saved' from being burned. Neither my choice to obey nor to disobey altered my position as a child of my parents.

The OP passage is speaking clearly and emphatically to all who are children of God, the passage is speaking of a salvation in time and is not related to eternal life. All who are able to hear are already children.

Frogman -- that's called "presumption." It works in the case of the prodigal son but not in this application.

First off, you can hear many other people speak besides your parents, right? Suppose it had been you aunt or neighbor told you not to touch the stove. Are you saying you wouldn't have heard or listened? Nice try though.

skypair

 

[pinoybaptist]

Frogman -- that's called "presumption." It works in the case of the prodigal son but not in this application.

First off, you can hear many other people speak besides your parents, right? Suppose it had been you aunt or neighbor told you not to touch the stove. Are you saying you wouldn't have heard or listened? Nice try though.

skypair

So there are many "gods" who will tell you not to touch the stove ?

nice try, too.

 

[skypair]

I am just checking something with you, Skypair, before I go making a fool of myself because I have misunderstood something:

You say that "election (is) the purpose for which God saved us." Does that mean that you believe God saves sinners in order to elect them? If so, what, in your view, does "elect" mean?

David, thank you for your consideration. The order is this --- foreknowledge, predestination (election), call, ... (Rom 8:29-30) Agreed?

God knows who will believe --- He predestines/elects them to His purposes. This is ALL before creation. God can "guide" those who believe into their "election" according to His pleasure (1Cor 15:38). But you gotta be saved -- you gotta "die" (1Cor 15:36) first. What do you suppose the "dying is?" Your repentance -- your rebirth! God doesn't give you "a body as it pleaseth Him" until you are "dead," right? That "body" is you "election," David.

"All flesh is not the same," is it. And this is our "terrestrial glory," David. Remember Moses with the veil? We don't wear a veil. We are "that which was to come." Light shining forth not covered by a bushel or a veil! But we gotta repent -- turn to God -- and THEN we receive our "election!"

skypair

 

[skypair]

It also says that those who are "born again" (which I see as regenerated) are done so by the will of Holy Spirit who moves according to His will and men cannot know when and where He will move. (John 3).

"By the will of..." yes. But even God doesn't get His will in men's lives, does He? Do you live a sinless life?? So is God's will even lived out in your life??? No.

"and men cannot know..."

"...so is everyone who is born of the Spirit." It's not talking about the HS only --- it's talking about BELIEVERS, jd! You don't know but what a believer is talking to you right now and warning you -- SAVE YOURSELF. Repent, be baptized, receive the Spirit, save yourself from this untoward generation!

Did the Spirit tell you that, or did it tell you -- "Hey, jd -- do you hear Me? You're one of My elect. That's My will! I do what I want and, guess what --- you're saved! born again! regenerated! Lucky you!! Hey, did you know Calvin knew all about this? Yeah! You don't have to do a thing! You believe. We're cool."

skypair

 

[skypair]

Skypair those are arguing with you think that those are going to be saved by God are going to be saved no matter what we say. I don't see any reason for them arguing with you unless it is just to protect thier own belief system.

If you are wrong and they are right you and they have nothing to worry about, but both of our concerns are if they are wrong people that can be saved will have hell to pay.

To me and you thier message is a message that are leading men to thier own destruction not ours.

You can give them they word, but you cannot make them believe.

God does want all men to be saved and come to the knowledge of the truth.

Yes those who God preordained children who do not lean on thier own understanding, but trust in the name of the Lord believed. God does want all men to be saved and come to the truth, but you have to come come as a child.

You can't pick and chose which scripture you want to believe in, but they all are the truth.

They think they entered through election, but election cannot save you if you do not come to Jesus.

Jesus is the way, not election.

Election is the first step, but you cannot be saved unless you come to Jesus.

Jesus is our hope. When they try to say you are lifting up yourself, lift up Jesus and prove them a liar

AMEN, psa! Repentance to Jesus is first! It is up to us, that first step! How can anyone grasp something they haven't reached for???

skypair

 

[skypair]

You can't lift up Jesus by changing the words of scripture to fit what you want them to mean. You can't lift up Jesus by claiming God, Holy Spirit has so gifted your interpretation of scripture that for anyone to disagree with you is blaspheming Holy Spirit (that is lifting up yourself). You can't lift up Jesus by constantly comparing yourself to the Apostle Paul and others who wrote scripture under inspiration of Holy Spirit.(that is lifting up yourself) You can't lift up Jesus by saying you know better than the person you are talking to how they learned certain doctrine, or why they believe certain doctrine. (As if you can read their minds, or know their lives better than they do)

If there are 2 options, one is right and one is wrong. So who is changing scripture? Are you so sure?

You can't lift up Jesus be claiming you are the only one who knows how people get to heaven, and if anyone teaches anything other than what you say, they are leading people to destruction.

jd, there is only One way, right? Someone is right -- someone is wrong. Do you trust Calvin more that skypair? What if skypair is right and Calvin is wrong?

skypair

 

[skypair]

So there are many "gods" who will tell you not to touch the stove ?

nice try, too.

Huh? I think you carried the allegory too far. :laugh:

skypair

 

[pinoybaptist]

Huh? I think you carried the allegory too far. :laugh:

skypair

good to know you have a sense of humor, after all.