MikeinGhana
New Member
All I am really asking in this thread is if there is a line that we should not cross. If there is, and there appears to be a consensus that there is a line somewhere, then what is that line?
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Seeker Sensitive: Is It Biblical?
- Thread starter MikeinGhana
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Hope of Glory
New Member
Define "church talk".
I don't think people are as ignorant as many people think. I have a couple of people in my congregation who say that what I teach is "too hard". Parts of speech are too hard to understand. They want to be spoon fed. On the other hand, I have some member who are 8th grade dropouts who can understand it because they work at it. (By the sweat of your face you will eat.)
The reason that I'm asking you to define "church talk" in the context of what you're saying is that some people consider defining the difference between punctiliar action and durative action as "church talk" and others define man-made ecclesiastical stuff as "church talk".
If you want to popularize the gospel, you have to embrace the world. We're told to separate ourselves from the world. The gospel will never be popular with the world.
The purpose of the church is to feed the flock so to speak, not water down things to please people to fill the pews.
We're commanded to preach the gospel; declare the Kingdom!
I think good examples are the word "repent" and "sins".
The last time I walked to a person who was completely secular, I talked about wrongdoing and transgression (instead of sin), and instead of using "repent", talked about acknowleging our wrongdoing, having remorse for them, and turning away from those actions.
I'm sure this post will get a few negative comments, but the fact remains that we often expect the word to learn our language to relate to the Gospel, when in fact Jesus talked to people in a manner that they understood.
BTW, this secular person I was talking about, she's now born again, an active church member at a local Presbyterian church, and has complimented me in teh past for being the only person who was willing to not not be "holier than thou" when talking to her about faith.
I have somewhat of a problem with trying to make our churches more "appealing" to lost folk.
I don't mean having relatively comfortable pews, or attractive decorations, but rather Im talking about bringing the modern culture into the church in order to make unsaved people feel more "at home."
Im also not talking about making our churches more WELCOMING, because having a welcoming attitude is really all about the people's attitudes.
I think some churches try too hard to make themselves so "modern" that you can't tell you're in a church anymore.
Sorry, I know what Im talking about here....Ive got a picture in my head.....but Im not so sure that Im describing it well.
I just truly believe that church services are primarily for the benefit of the believers, and are to be used for believers joining together in like-minded worship, praise, Bible study and fellowship. They are a place where young Christians come to be trained to go OUT to win the lost to Christ.
I don't mean having relatively comfortable pews, or attractive decorations, but rather Im talking about bringing the modern culture into the church in order to make unsaved people feel more "at home."
Im also not talking about making our churches more WELCOMING, because having a welcoming attitude is really all about the people's attitudes.
I think some churches try too hard to make themselves so "modern" that you can't tell you're in a church anymore.
Sorry, I know what Im talking about here....Ive got a picture in my head.....but Im not so sure that Im describing it well.
I just truly believe that church services are primarily for the benefit of the believers, and are to be used for believers joining together in like-minded worship, praise, Bible study and fellowship. They are a place where young Christians come to be trained to go OUT to win the lost to Christ.
MOM,
mmm . . .
mmm . . .
It sounds like by your definition that if we bring in the culture, we are being 'seeker sensitive'. I do not know of any churches that have more than 70% of the adults in their ONLY marriage [We can even exclude widowed and remarried]. Could we say that almost ALL churches would fit that definition?
Hope of Glory
New Member
Based on your example, my impression of seeker sensitive would be to say that it doesn't matter what your actions are. I don't mean that we need to condemn past actions, those can't be changed. But, treating the actions themselves as being OK, so as not to offend anyone.
BTW, Mom, I agree. We're to go out into the world to evangelize; the churches are for the believers, not the lost.
BTW, Mom, I agree. We're to go out into the world to evangelize; the churches are for the believers, not the lost.
Hope of Glory
New Member
Did I say otherwise? I just said evangelizing is to go out into the world; churches are for the saved. I said nothing about churches being only for the righteous.
same here, Johnv.
Churches are for believers....not as museums to display ourselves, but as training grounds, places of fellowship, forums for joint worship. The lost are never commanded to go to church, but we are. Of course that doesn't mean we don't let them in, or that we aren't welcoming. Just that we've got to realize what a church really is for.
Aren't there "sick" Christians that need to be ministered to, as well?
El Guero,
I don't understand quite what you are trying to point out. I didn't say we should deny the reality of the world around us, nor only allow "perfect" people into our churches (as if that were even possible, the churches would be empty.)
Im talking about our attitudes towards who we ought to appeal to within our church services.
Are we trying to provide entertainment so that we get crowds the same way a movie theatre does? Do we hold rock concerts in order to get a huge crowd? Do we have a "bar" type atmosphere in order to appeal to the "bar crowd"? (I know that last is extreme.....I was trying to be....
)
Churches are for believers....not as museums to display ourselves, but as training grounds, places of fellowship, forums for joint worship. The lost are never commanded to go to church, but we are. Of course that doesn't mean we don't let them in, or that we aren't welcoming. Just that we've got to realize what a church really is for.
Aren't there "sick" Christians that need to be ministered to, as well?
El Guero,
I don't understand quite what you are trying to point out. I didn't say we should deny the reality of the world around us, nor only allow "perfect" people into our churches (as if that were even possible, the churches would be empty.)
Im talking about our attitudes towards who we ought to appeal to within our church services.
Are we trying to provide entertainment so that we get crowds the same way a movie theatre does? Do we hold rock concerts in order to get a huge crowd? Do we have a "bar" type atmosphere in order to appeal to the "bar crowd"? (I know that last is extreme.....I was trying to be....
Hope of Glory
New Member
I would never turn a lost person away at the door, unless they are being disruptive (such as a demoniac or a protestor). However, Mom's got the right idea completely.
The last I checked, the lost are dead.
guitarpreacher
New Member
MYTH: Seeker sensative churches do no engage in nor care about discipleship.
If you are choosing between the two you have things out of whack. Plus, people are discipled by developing the habits of a disciple, which is prayer, bible reading, listening to God, worshipping, serving and giving. All of that takes place in a seeker sensative service.
If you are choosing between the two you have things out of whack. Plus, people are discipled by developing the habits of a disciple, which is prayer, bible reading, listening to God, worshipping, serving and giving. All of that takes place in a seeker sensative service.
guitarpreacher
New Member
Also, the church is not for the saved, the church is the saved
That is the problem I hear among many lost people I talk with. They simply do not feel welcome as an outsider. They feel as though Christians are more exclusionary rather than inclusionary. When a non-believer walks in the door I want the Christians to treat them with dignity and respect and make them feel glad they are there. We as Christians have the greatest news to give. Why should we not come with great joy and gladness at the presence of non-Christians? If they are willing to come and hear me preach the straight stuff I am willing to let them in anytime.
How would we feel if we went to someone's home and they did not make us feel welcome? Would we return?
Hope of Glory
New Member
We're told to be exclusive; we're told to separate ourselves from the world. We're to esteem the mysteries (having to do with an initiation) of the Kingdom.
However, teaching sin as sin, you're no longer treating them with "dignity and respect" in the world today. If you preach truth, the world will hate you. John lost his head for preaching the truth. If you preach the truth, the lost, for the most part will not be glad they are there.
Can you show a single example in the Bible in which they watered down things and conformed to the world in order to appeal to lost masses to get them to come into the synagogues? I can show you some where they went out into the world.