Seeker Sensitive: Is It Biblical?

[gb93433]

Originally posted by bapmom:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by gb93433:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by bapmom:
Aren't there "sick" Christians that need to be ministered to, as well?

Do you mean those who are not sharing their faith and discipling anyone? </font>[/QUOTE]gb, thats a rather exclusive view, isn't it? No, I mean those Christians who are hurting and struggling and needing to gain insights for their walk with God.
Wouldnt that cover all of us? </font>[/QUOTE]No more than Mt. 28:19,20 and 4:19. If one has been a Christian for awhile and is not sharing their faith and making disciples they are sick spiritually.

 

[gb93433]

Originally posted by Hope of Glory:
On the other hand, if you stick to the truth, you are treated with spite and malice. If you preach the truth, the world, by and large, will hate you. A few will rejoice. (Even many within the Church will hate you.)

We can tell the truth and at the same time help people to listen by our demeanor. We can remain calm and respectful.

Years ago when I became a Christian and then was accepted to seminary I got all kinds of letters freom relatives. Some basically disowned me and did not call, write or visit. But since that time most of them have become Christians. I have cointinued to be faithul on my end even when they were not. Has it always been easy? No, but God has used it. Things are very different today. Of all my relatives I was the first Christian. But now the numbers of Christians far outweigh the number of non-Christians.

When we pray we will know when God opens the doors for us to say something.

Most of my problems have come from the lazy in the church who want a social club.

 

[MikeinGhana]

I do not think the error, if there is any, of the seeker movement is that the language they use is not suiutable to its audience. We convey meaning of our communications with words.

What I originally asked in this thread was concerning methods to reach the lost. Is there anyone that would still say that there is no method that we should consider "across the line" when it comes to reaching the lost? Is it really anything goes as long as the message is not compromised?

 

[Hope of Glory]

That would be an extremely rare thing.

That's the situation that I have. See my next question before I respond further.

I also believe that if a preacher keeps his wordings relatively simple, even erudite, intelligent people will appreciate that.

What is "simple"?

Read Jesus' sermons. That is what he did.

Well, I agree with your statement, but I doubt that we would agree on what his sermons say. So, since we (I don't mean you and I woule personally do so) argue over what is said, no matter how simple it seems, are they simple?

Most of my problems have come from the lazy in the church who want a social club.

From my personal experience, that's how most big churches become big.

Is it really anything goes as long as the message is not compromised?

I think you should just preach the truth, and live your life as a witness, and people will see something they want. John the Baptizer didn't go around trying to find new ways to appeal to the masses, did he?

We're not here to entertain the masses.

 

[Johnv]

Originally posted by cojosh:
WWJD?

"J" would let each be convinced in his own mind.

Originally posted by Hope of Glory:
John the Baptizer didn't go around trying to find new ways to appeal to the masses, did he?

No he didn't but he did result attracting the masses. If he were doing this today, some would no doubt accuse him of compromising the message or watering down the gospel.

 

[guitarpreacher]

Originally posted by MikeinGhana:
I do not think the error, if there is any, of the seeker movement is that the language they use is not suiutable to its audience. We convey meaning of our communications with words.

What I originally asked in this thread was concerning methods to reach the lost. Is there anyone that would still say that there is no method that we should consider "across the line" when it comes to reaching the lost? Is it really anything goes as long as the message is not compromised?

Okay Mike, since you started this and you've pretty much picked our brains clean (mine anyway) What is your answer to your question?

 

[cojosh]

**********I think you should just preach the truth, and live your life as a witness, and people will see something they want.*************


Hopefully people will see something they need.

I agree we should proclaim the gospel verbally and by our lifestyles. Even so, there are different methods by which we can share the gospel.

 

[MikeinGhana]

guitar

I am not trying to make my opinions or preferences the standard by which we judge what is right and what is wrong. I think we can, however, say that there are some things that are not acceptable to biblical principles.he church.

I personally believe rock music is a genre that has no place in the church. I also think that entertaining people in order to attract them is over the line.

These are my opinions, of equal value to yours and others.

 

[guitarpreacher]

Mike said, "I also think that entertaining people in order to attract them is over the line."

Assuming that I can do something that is entertaining without violating Scripture, the implication of what you are saying is that even though we know that we're not reaching everybody around us, you are content to see them go to hell rather than try something that's outside the box.

 

[MikeinGhana]

The church is not a circus, which unfortunately, some people do not seem to understand. God is a holy God and will not be brought down to man's level. If you think about this for just a minute, the temple of the OT was the place where God dwelt. There was no music there. There was no public activity in the Holy of Holies. It was a somber place that one had to be very careful to operate in just such a way that God was not offended.

I am not suggesting that the church is the NT temple. Our bodies are the temple. I am suggesting that we need to be careful about the casual way we approach a holy God.

People go to hell because they choose to reject God, not because I refuse to entertain them or cooerce them into church. My job is to preach to all that the Holy Spirit draws to himself, right? I am to go out into the highways and compell them to come in. I will do that, but there is a way that seemeth right unto a man. I will choose to do it in a way that I believe honors God's holiness.

You may feel free to choose the way you want to do it and we will meet at the judgment seat. I guess we will find out who is right there.

 

[Hope of Glory]

There was no music there.

What about the magrephah?

 

[cojosh]

A big problem within this issue is that some churches are depending more on the methods and programs than they do God. Ministry in the church should be conducted "God's way or No way!"

For any program to be truly successful it has to be SPIRIT-led. Yeah, an activity may feel up the pews but is it changing lives. Many times these church events give the lost the impression that the church is just a place to have fun and that the Christian life is one of games, roses, & candy falling from the sky. It appeals to the flesh. The church is to equip the saints so they can do spiritual battle with the devil, not entertain and make people feel good about themselves. That's what the world does.

Fine line, very fine!!!

Who added to the church daily in Jerusalem? Maybe, sometimes we are guilty of trying to do God's job.

 

[guitarpreacher]

Originally posted by cojosh:
A big problem within this issue is that some churches are depending more on the methods and programs than they do God. Ministry in the church should be conducted "God's way or No way!"

So what is God's way? Please tell me because so far all anyone has done is criticize methods they don't like. What is the official God approved method for conducting outreach?

 

[guitarpreacher]

I don't understand why you can't get this. No one ever said the method reached anyone. Nobody I know is relying on the method to save one single person. The method gains you an audience so that the Gospel can be presented.

The difference is this - some you may have a heart for reaching the lost, but you do not have a heart for the lost. By having a heart for reaching the lost, you do whatever program it is that you do, and once that's done you've met your obligation. You preach the Word every week with enthusiasm and the Gospel is plainly presented, problem is no one is there to hear it, and you don't feel complelled to anything more than show up on Sunday and preach. If they come, great. If not, that's fine too.

A heart for the lost says "I'll do whatever it takes to see that everyone around me hears the Gospel." The sad thing is, there will no doubt be countless entire families who spend eternity in hell who lived within walking distance of a church, but never heard the Gospel because the church did nothing to begin or build a relationship with them.

 

[cojosh]

**********So what is God's way? Please tell me because so far all anyone has done is criticize methods they don't like. What is the official God approved method for conducting outreach? ****************

Who are you talking to? I haven't criticized any method. Up to this point I've only commented on the attitutes and motives behind the methods.

I used the word(s), "SPIRIT-led", so that would be between an individual church and Him.

I guess I'll give you an example that I heard about a few years ago. Whether or not this true is in question, but it is still a good example. Someone said that a church allowed a "converted stripper" to do her routine before the entire congregation. This was said to be a type of worship. I was told that she actually took off her clothes. Now this may have or have not happened, but it is a good example of what could possibly happen when a church is more concerned with pleasing the crowd rather than God. It's safe to say that this would be a "bad" method of attracting visitors.

 

[MikeinGhana]

I have a problem with your statement that you would do anything to reach the lost with the gospel. I am guessing then you would be ok with marrying same sex couples? or ordaining homosexuals? These churches are trying to meet the felt needs of their constituents to reach them with their gospel.

So you would really do anything?

 

[Pastor Larry]

The sad thing is, there will no doubt be countless entire families who spend eternity in hell who lived within walking distance of a church, but never heard the Gospel because the church did nothing to begin or build a relationship with them.

That won't be why they spend eternity in hell. They will spend eternity in hell because they rejected Christ.

One thing that often accompanies seeker churches is weak theology ... like this.

 

[guitarpreacher]

Mike and Cojosh - every post that has been made by me others who try to be seeker sensative has been made with the assumption that Scripture is not violated. Strip shows and gay weddings are not being seeker sensative. It's hard to have a serious discussion with you when this is the best you can do.

Pastor Larry, you stated the obvious. The only reason anybody goes to hell is they do not accept Christ. The point I was making, and it shouldn't require explaining to you, is that they can't accept Christ if they don't hear the Gospel, and many are not hearing the Gospel because we have it locked behind the doors of our church buildings.

One thing that often accomanies non seeker churches is that they are content to sit back and watch the community around them go to hell, and it really doesn't bother them all that much.

Pastor Larry, I blew up an engine in a truck once. The bottom line why was because I put the wrong kind of oil in it. I blame the mechanic who told me to put that oil in there. But in the end, I had to pay the price for the blown engine. People will spend an eternity in hell because they did not accept Jesus Christ as Savior. That's the bottom line and nothing changes that. But the reason they haven't accepted Christ is because God's method of spreading the Gospel has broken down. The Gospel isn't weak, and God certainly isn't weak, but our commitment to the lost is definately weak.

 

[cojosh]

guitarpreacher,

Give me some examples of being seeker sensitive, maybe I have been off subject.

 

[gb93433]

Originally posted by Pastor Larry:
One thing that often accompanies seeker churches is weak theology ... like this.

How is your point any differnt than the typical Baptist church which isn't quite what I think you mention but in practice most of the people live like practical atheists. In the typical Baptist church only ten percent every lead anyone to Christ and fewer ever disciple anyone.

So what is the difference?

I would contend that the ten percent do not need someone to poke and prod them. But the others need someone to disciple them and lead them. But in most churches that simply is not happening.

Aren't you comparing weak intellectual theology to churches which have a weak practical theology? Both are poor and weak.

I am not sure I have ever seen anyone with a poor practical theology ever have a strong intellectual theology. People who are disobedient do not know God. They really know so little about him too. I have not seen anyone with a strong practical theology ever have a poor intellectual theology. Disobedience to the word never produces a strong theology.