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Sen. Edward Kennedy Dies at 77
- Thread starter Crabtownboy
- Start date
Marcia
Active Member
There is no reason to make Kennedy into a hero just because he died. It's sad he died because he might not have been saved - I do say that. And I do feel sympathy for his family, of course.
The affair of the bridge and Mary Jo Kopechne and his efforts supporting abortion do not go away just because he died.
He might have been a great guy with a lot of good intentions, but those 2 things reveal a dark side that belies the good things.
The affair of the bridge and Mary Jo Kopechne and his efforts supporting abortion do not go away just because he died.
He might have been a great guy with a lot of good intentions, but those 2 things reveal a dark side that belies the good things.
Not to derail this amazing discourse...
With all the talent, I am wondering who will be nominated to sit on the judgment seat tomorrow. Seriously folks, there is good reason to believe that the individual in question will be spending an eternity seperated from God in torment.
If that doesn't break or even burden your heart, it may be because you have forgotten that sin once seperated you from Him, but by His grace He loved you while you were yet sinners.
Politically, I had nothing in common with Senator Kennedy. There is one thing we did have in common... our great need for a Savior.
With all the talent, I am wondering who will be nominated to sit on the judgment seat tomorrow. Seriously folks, there is good reason to believe that the individual in question will be spending an eternity seperated from God in torment.
If that doesn't break or even burden your heart, it may be because you have forgotten that sin once seperated you from Him, but by His grace He loved you while you were yet sinners.
Politically, I had nothing in common with Senator Kennedy. There is one thing we did have in common... our great need for a Savior.
The most interesting fact I know about Sen. Kennedy was that he considered Jerry Falwell his friend.
Magnetic Poles
New Member
And Orrin Hatch, John McCain and other prominent Republicans.
OldRegular
Well-Known Member
Show me something of Christ in one [Senator Kennedy] who could have done something about the slaughter of 50 million unborn children and did nothing but advocate abortion. Show me something of Christ in those, like you, who support Obama a rabid advocator and facilitator of the continued slaughter of the unborn and the just born.
I'm not Jim but to summarize a few from the top sheet:
- Sought out raising the minimum wage for the lowest class of people
- Fought for reducing poverty and providing substantive means to allow the less priviledged avenues to embrace a better future
- Helped eliminate the sale of tobacco and other harmful products from minors
- Sought to provide reasonable health care for children who were members of impoverished families
- Drove funding to research diseases like cancer, HIV/AIDS, etc
- Authored legislation to allow for continued religious liberty for gatherings and land use
- Assisted parents of children with Down Syndrome have more access to care and life opportunities, particularly for parents whose child have not been born yet
- Sought federal election reform
- Crafted legislation to expand public service and volunteering programs
Those seem to be some good contributions.
At some point we have to realize that even someone who led a life of confliction (like Senator Kennedy) still made a contribution to improving our nation. We can vociferously disagree with him and others on a range of issues but still be civil, particularly as they have passed on. At some point we have to consider the issues we are talking about and seriously ask what we are doing to resolved them. If you really can't stand someone that is fine, but what are you doing to change the world?
There's a story I was told on my time working on the Hill. A young freshman republican congressman shows up for his first day in the office. He meets a senior republican for lunch and begins a good conversation. As they walk back for the vote and enter the chamber the freshman congressman pauses and looks at the senior congressman. "Okay, where are they? Where are is the enemy? Where are the democrats? I want to see them." The senior republican congressman laughs and shakes his head. "The democrats aren't the enemy, the senate is." He then walks off.
I think most Americans would be very surprised at the friendships that develop across party lines in both the House and Senate. Most people can have mature relationships that leave politics at the door because they genuinely care for the person. Sad to see most Christians can't do that.
Tom Bryant
Well-Known Member
I think it's easier to be civil when I am face to face than when I am sitting at a computer. Contrary to what some might think I have friends who are leftists. I felt like sandwich meat during the last election with Obama signs on the houses next door and my lone McCain sign. How left are they? They're still happy with Obama.
That's true of everyone. The impersonal nature makes the written text much less friendly. For this reason, we should always be sure to choose our words carefully, so as not imply unfriendliness where none exists, and we should also extend grace to those whose posts might appear unfriendly, where no unfriendliness was intended.
Or maybe we should not be quick to take what others write that way.
Yes, that's probably true. I myself have often misjudged a person's words as being harsh at first glance, when they weren't being harsh at all.
I have young sons, actually too young to speak to with any deep insight regarding a matter like death, but, I've thought, what would I say to my sons about Ted Kennedy? Understand that I disagree with him deeply on a political level and I think that, in his personal life, at least in his younger days, he was a very immoral man (as were his brothers). Here are some key prisms with which to think of Ted Kennedy.
He was, as a human being, one of God's image bearers. Flawed, yes, but an image bearer nonetheless. At one point in his life, he wanted to be president, indeed it seemed he was destined to be president. After he failed in his pursuit in 1980, he set him mind to being a great senator and, in that endeavor, he succeeded. He had a personal wit and magnetism that made him a natural born leader and endeared him to others on a personal basis--even to his political opponents. While his public speeches were often strident, in private he sought compromises and forged agreements between opposing sides. He was among the most liberal senators of his time in a time when liberalism was in decline, yet he was one of the most influential men of his generation. I think he demonstrated a personal touch that is the mark of a godly person. For my sons, this is a quality to be emulated.
Though gifted in many ways, at a critical moment of life he squandered his opportunity and it could not be recovered. First, John was president, then Robert ran. Both were cut down by assasins. Ted was the heir apparent. He had it all. He had the wit, the looks, the charm, the necessary support to become president. In 1962, President Kennedy had challenged the nation to send a man to the moon. In 1969, the nation met the challenge with the Apollo 11 landing. This was a quintessential Kennedy moment and Ted Kennedy should have been there to reflect in the glory of what had been accomplished. This would have set him up as the inevitable Democratic nominee to challenge Nixon in 1972; a scenario that was Nixon's greatest fear. But where was Kennedy? Nowhere to be found. Just weeks before, he had driven the car in which Mary Jo Kopechne lost her life at Chappaquiddick. This episode forever dogged him and it cost him the nomination in 1980 when he finally decided to run for president.
Judge not that you be not judged Kennedy may have been a murderer and there is no doubt that he was an adulterer. He may also have repented of these before God. I do not know. Only he knew what happened for certain at Chappaquick. As for adultery, late in life it appears that he married and was faithful to his wife. I have also read that he apologized to his first wife for the way he treated her. I have not killed anyone or committed adultery, but, by the standard Jesus set, all of us are guilty before God of these things. None of us stand justified before God on our own merits. I pray that Ted Kennedy trusted Christ and is experiencing his grace in its fullness now.
He was, as a human being, one of God's image bearers. Flawed, yes, but an image bearer nonetheless. At one point in his life, he wanted to be president, indeed it seemed he was destined to be president. After he failed in his pursuit in 1980, he set him mind to being a great senator and, in that endeavor, he succeeded. He had a personal wit and magnetism that made him a natural born leader and endeared him to others on a personal basis--even to his political opponents. While his public speeches were often strident, in private he sought compromises and forged agreements between opposing sides. He was among the most liberal senators of his time in a time when liberalism was in decline, yet he was one of the most influential men of his generation. I think he demonstrated a personal touch that is the mark of a godly person. For my sons, this is a quality to be emulated.
Though gifted in many ways, at a critical moment of life he squandered his opportunity and it could not be recovered. First, John was president, then Robert ran. Both were cut down by assasins. Ted was the heir apparent. He had it all. He had the wit, the looks, the charm, the necessary support to become president. In 1962, President Kennedy had challenged the nation to send a man to the moon. In 1969, the nation met the challenge with the Apollo 11 landing. This was a quintessential Kennedy moment and Ted Kennedy should have been there to reflect in the glory of what had been accomplished. This would have set him up as the inevitable Democratic nominee to challenge Nixon in 1972; a scenario that was Nixon's greatest fear. But where was Kennedy? Nowhere to be found. Just weeks before, he had driven the car in which Mary Jo Kopechne lost her life at Chappaquiddick. This episode forever dogged him and it cost him the nomination in 1980 when he finally decided to run for president.
Judge not that you be not judged Kennedy may have been a murderer and there is no doubt that he was an adulterer. He may also have repented of these before God. I do not know. Only he knew what happened for certain at Chappaquick. As for adultery, late in life it appears that he married and was faithful to his wife. I have also read that he apologized to his first wife for the way he treated her. I have not killed anyone or committed adultery, but, by the standard Jesus set, all of us are guilty before God of these things. None of us stand justified before God on our own merits. I pray that Ted Kennedy trusted Christ and is experiencing his grace in its fullness now.
OldRegular
Well-Known Member
swaimj
I will stand before God as a sinner saved by grace but I will not have to answer for supporting the slaughter of 50 million unborn children. I cannot believe such a man can be characterized as "godly".
I will stand before God as a sinner saved by grace but I will not have to answer for supporting the slaughter of 50 million unborn children. I cannot believe such a man can be characterized as "godly".
OldRegular
Well-Known Member
I agree. Kennedy was at heart a socialist. If anything good can be said about him is that he was true to his political philosophy. He has been praised as "working across the aisle" but I believe the record will show he got what he wanted when doing so.
Can a man be justified before God if he sits in judgement on others? Judging and sitting in condemnation are just as sinful as murder.
As for my description of Kennedy as godly, ALL men are made in the image of God and all men are godly in some respects. They cannot help themselves. This does not justify them before God nor make them righteous, but the fact remains.
I want to teach my sons to see the image of Christ in others even when it appears imperfectly, because it is always there. I want to teach my sons to love other people, not sit in judgement of them.
God help us.
Magnetic Poles
New Member
It is a fine quality called the ability to compromise. Each side gets something out of it. Not all points are equal in value, and some may be negotiable to win a greater good. The Kennedy's were not gods, they were men. But their family has given its very blood in defense of our liberty. I am thankful for them.