Sen. Edward Kennedy Dies at 77

[Bro. Curtis]

Frankly, the hatred expressed toward Ted Kennedy by some on this thread is ungodly and should be repented of. If Ted Kennedy's family heard the vitriol that has been spilled by some Baptists about him, why would any of them want to become Baptists? Why would they want to profess the Christ who causes Baptists to hate their departed relative? God help us, indeed!

Disagreement & rejection of the man does not equal hatred. I would not wish his death on anyone, and I actually commended him on his fight to survive. And I also have not said word one about where he is, or assumed anything about his stand with God. Yet I have been accused as such. I think people from both sides are swinging wildly on this one.

 

[OldRegular]

Frankly, the hatred expressed toward Ted Kennedy by some on this thread is ungodly and should be repented of. If Ted Kennedy's family heard the vitriol that has been spilled by some Baptists about him, why would any of them want to become Baptists? Why would they want to profess the Christ who causes Baptists to hate their departed relative? God help us, indeed!

I was accused on an earlier post of embracing Bro. Curtis. I replied that I had never met Curtis much less embraced him.

I have never met Kennedy so I cannot hate him but I do hate the evil that he heartedly embraced, particularly:

1. The unlimited slaughter of unborn children which continues unabated today and has resulted in the death of 50+ million babies. It is not clear to me that a person can be a Christian and promote the slaughter of the unborn.

2. His efforts to destroy this Constitutional Republic and convert it into a Socialist state with the people in servitude to a government run by a group of elitists like him.

Furthermore, I would note that hating evil is Scriptural as follows:

Psalms 97:10. Ye that love the LORD, hate evil: he preserveth the souls of his saints; he delivereth them out of the hand of the wicked.
Proverbs 8:13. The fear of the LORD is to hate evil: pride, and arrogancy, and the evil way, and the froward mouth, do I hate.
Amos 5:15. Hate the evil, and love the good, and establish judgment in the gate: it may be that the LORD God of hosts will be gracious unto the remnant of Joseph.

As for the Kennedy family embracing the Baptist Faith I would not waste much time on the possibility!

 

[Magnetic Poles]

I have never met Kennedy so I cannot hate him but I do hate the evil that he heartedly embraced, particularly:

1. The unlimited slaughter of unborn children which continues unabated today and has resulted in the death of 50+ million babies. It is not clear to me that a person can be a Christian and promote the slaughter of the unborn.

2. His efforts to destroy this Constitutional Republic and convert it into a Socialist state with the people in servitude to a government run by a group of elitists like him.

Despite the fact that I realize you believe the above to be true...the fact is, it just ain't so.

 

[sag38]

Somehow we wouldn't expect you to understand. It would be out of character for you MP.

 

[Aaron]

Aaron commented:
Aaron, Republicans who knew him, and who disagreed with him strongly, are speaking highly of him as a human being.

Of course they are. They have to or be villified by a socialist* press—What did you expect?

Kennedy had deep friendships with people who were his political opponents.

Yeah, whatever. Nothing he did was in good faith. It was all for political expediency. Like the good things Republicans are saying about him.

Jesus said "Be kind to those who despitefully use you". Ted Kennedy seems to have understood this principle. He befriended his enemies just as Jesus befriended His.

God help us.

Yes, God help us to emulate this. God help my sons to emulate this. It is a godly trait.

May God grant you a discerning mind, and insight to the violence you have just done to the words of Scripture.

*Socialists are liars.

 

[Magnetic Poles]

Somehow we wouldn't expect you to understand. It would be out of character for you MP.

I understand perfectly. You guys are just wrong. It can happen, you know. :thumbs:

 

[OldRegular]

Somehow we wouldn't expect you to understand. It would be out of character for you MP.

It is the high altitude!

 

[Magnetic Poles]

It is the high altitude!

Yes, I do consider myself on a higher plain (spelling purposeful). The air is clear and the sun is bright here at 6000 feet above the sea! And no worries about hurricanes either.

 

[swaimj]

My response to various comments:

Bro Curtis said

Disagreement & rejection of the man does not equal hatred. I would not wish his death on anyone, and I actually commended him on his fight to survive.

I like this statement and I think this is the proper spirit to have.

Old Regular voiced opposition to Kennedy's politics in the areas of abortion and socialism. I agree with your political position, OR. I would never have voted for Kennedy. However, hatred and opposition of the man's political positions should not equal hatred of the man. When the rich young ruler refused to repent, Jesus loved him and had compassion on him. That is the Christian response to opponents. OR, also said

As for the Kennedy family embracing the Baptist Faith I would not waste much time on the possibility!

OR, with God ALL things are possible. Praying for what seems impossible is NEVER a waste of time!

and Aaron said

Yeah, whatever. Nothing he did was in good faith. It was all for political expediency. Like the good things Republicans are saying about him.

Aaron, one of the principals of our republic is that politicians may oppose each other politically, but they do not wish violence on each other nor attempt it. I was introduced to politics as a teenager when I worked in the Senate campaign of Jesse Helms, arch-conservative from NC. Guess who Jesse Helm's closest friend was in the US Senate: Hubert Humphrey. Political opponents but friends. That is the way the founding fathers intended it to be.

 

[Magnetic Poles]

I would add that "embracing the Baptist faith" is not a requirement of salvation.

 

[OldRegular]

I would add that "embracing the Baptist faith" is not a requirement of salvation.

I heartily agree! However, it is painful to agree with someone on a "higher plain". Keep that in mind the next time you see me fly over Denver MP.

 

[Magnetic Poles]

I heartily agree! However, it is painful to agree with someone on a "higher plain". Keep that in mind the next time you see me fly over Denver MP.

OR, make sure the pilot checks the altimeter. If it says 5000 feet, you are under the ground here.

 

[OldRegular]

Guess who Jesse Helm's closest friend was in the US Senate: Hubert Humphrey. Political opponents but friends. That is the way the founding fathers intended it to be.

And Senator Helms was vilified by the leftist far worse that anything said about committed socialists Kennedy and Obama. They tried to portray him as still swing from trees. Neanderthal is a common word used to describe Conservatives [political or religious]. I have heard that word applied recently to those who are participating in the town hall meetings.

 

[OldRegular]

OR, make sure the pilot checks the altimeter. If it says 5000 feet, you are under the ground here.

What pilot? Its a bird, its a plane, no its:smilewinkgrin::thumbs:

 

[faithgirl46]

One doesn't have to agree or disagree with him to be sorry for his painful struggle and to sympathize with his family at this time.

I pray that they recieve peace and comfort that only God can give.

Amen and amen
Faithgirl

 

[Marcia]

Can a man be justified before God if he sits in judgement on others? Judging and sitting in condemnation are just as sinful as murder.

As for my description of Kennedy as godly, ALL men are made in the image of God and all men are godly in some respects. They cannot help themselves. This does not justify them before God nor make them righteous, but the fact remains.

I want to teach my sons to see the image of Christ in others even when it appears imperfectly, because it is always there. I want to teach my sons to love other people, not sit in judgement of them.

Being made in the image of god does not mean one is godly. He could have done tons of nice things in the world, but if he did not trust Christ, how can he be godly? I am not saying whether he did or not, I just question the use of the term "godly" here.

Christians are conformed to the image of Christ - not unbelievers. So there is no image of Christ in everyone - this makes no sense.

 

[swaimj]

Christians are conformed to the image of Christ - not unbelievers. So there is no image of Christ in everyone - this makes no sense.

I should have been more careful and consistent in my wording. I should have said that I want my sons to look for the image of God in people; even people who do not profess Christ. All people are made in the image of God. All people are fallen, so the image of God is marred, but it is there nonetheless and it is recognizable. It is in this sense, that the image of God can be seen in everyone, that I used the term "godly". I also explained that I am not saying that all people possess righteousness, because no one possesses righteousness outside of faith in Christ, in which case his righteousness is imputed to them.

Read the eulogies for Ted Kennedy that were given today and you will easily see that, even if Ted Kennedy was unsaved, he had some personal traits that are very admirable and should be emulated by Christians. This is not true of everything in Ted Kennedy, not by a long shot, nevertheless, admirable traits are there.

 

[Marcia]

I should have been more careful and consistent in my wording. I should have said that I want my sons to look for the image of God in people; even people who do not profess Christ. All people are made in the image of God. All people are fallen, so the image of God is marred, but it is there nonetheless and it is recognizable. It is in this sense, that the image of God can be seen in everyone, that I used the term "godly". .

THanks for explaining but usually "godly" is a term used for behavior. I have never heard anyone use to mean that everyone is made in the image of God.

I also explained that I am not saying that all people possess righteousness, because no one possesses righteousness outside of faith in Christ, in which case his righteousness is imputed to them.

I agree.

Read the eulogies for Ted Kennedy that were given today and you will easily see that, even if Ted Kennedy was unsaved, he had some personal traits that are very admirable and should be emulated by Christians. This is not true of everything in Ted Kennedy, not by a long shot, nevertheless, admirable traits are there

It is hard for me to admire someone who was so pro-abortion, and someone whose behavior at the bridge incident sullied his intergrity, imo.

 

[preachinjesus]

I am not sure his name was on that legislation, but It could be intelligently argued that minimum wage hikes lead to layoffs, less hiring, less benefits, and other ill effects, in so hurting the very people he is claiming to help.

Are you just trying to be disagreeable? Seriously, are you? Because one of the HUGE issues that Senator Kennedy fought for was raising the minimum wage. How is this bad? It helps the deeply underpriviledged of our society. It is a huge way to impact the most needy among us.

I highly recommend you actually fact check before replying, but start by looking up Senator Kennedy's lambasting Congress for giving themselves a raise but refusing to raise the minimum wage. It is legendary.

Like what ? Each one of his actions had an increase in poverty. What were the effective measures he led ?

Did you look this up either? (I ask because you said you wanted to take time to reason a response, this seems pretty ad hoc.) Outside of the legislation (which is readily accessible on LexisNexis or Google) did you ever follow his poverty trail campaign where Senator Kennedy went into the 50 most impoverished areas of the US? It was pretty prolific. Why is it bad to try to do something about poverty?

This is not evident anywhere.

lol...wow. Look up The Family Smoking and Prevention Act. He was pretty involved behind the scenes and as a prolific co-sponsor.

What were his actions, and what were the results ? I don't know of anything he pushed thru....

During the medicare reform push he worked on this. There are numerous acts including State Children’s Health Insurance Program (SCHIP) and the Americans With Disabilities Act of 1990.

Lotsa politicians did this. But some of Kennedy's leftist buddies have actually tried to stop animal research, which has proven to be extremely successful in fighting all kinds of disease.

Get out of the Republican shadow. He drove initial government funding for many of these types of research.

I'd like to see both of these.

The Religious Freedom Restoration Act (RFRA) passed in 1993 and The Prenatally and Postnatally Diagnosed Conditions Awareness Act passed in 2008.

Yup. He loved ACORN, and their actions in the last election sure could be called "reform".

Can you not be at least agreeable on anything? Seriously? How about his votes and legislation in regards to the Legilsative Transparency and Accountability Act, Bipartisan Campaign Reform Act of 2002, etc

I'd like to see his actions in this regard.

In regards to volunteering he worked hard with both parties to expand Americorps, offer incentives for state and federal funding of volutneer initiatives, and directly worked with volunteering groups to raise awareness.

Ted Kennedy's biggest fault, in my eyes, is his desire to do good with other people's money. His immigration reform of '65 was a disaster, as was "No Child Left Behind". And I am still disgusted by his attacks on Robert Bork. Did his accusations that Bork would put blacks back into segregated restaurants make this world a better place ?

I didn't agree with his position on Bork and any number of issues. I think that Bork was extremely qualified and he absoutely was given a raw deal.

I don't agree with many position that the late Senator held but sooner or later you have to admit he did make a contribution. He wasn't an American hating, socialist spewing person...he loved America and wanted this to be a better place. I love America and want this to be a better place and suspect you do too. But all three of us probably believe in 3 different approaches to making that way.

We can be civil in our disagreement, if for no other reason than this is how Christ commands us to live.

My point here is that at some point we can, we ought to look past someone's clear faults (or specks) and realize that out of our shared humanity we owe them respect. If we cannot bring ourselves to respect them we owe them the dignity of our quieted dissent as they pass from this world to their eternal destiny which we don't know. We owe their families respect to mourn. It is the least we can do. When fail to do this we fail to meet our calling at such a simple level.

 

[Bro. Curtis]

[/i]

Are you just trying to be disagreeable? Seriously, are you? Because one of the HUGE issues that Senator Kennedy fought for was raising the minimum wage. How is this bad? It helps the deeply underpriviledged of our society. It is a huge way to impact the most needy among us.

I highly recommend you actually fact check before replying, but start by looking up Senator Kennedy's lambasting Congress for giving themselves a raise but refusing to raise the minimum wage. It is legendary.

No, I'm not. Raising the minimum wage has resulted in layoffs, and less hiring. I thought I said that. And show me what Kennedy did with his pay raise.

Did you look this up either? (I ask because you said you wanted to take time to reason a response, this seems pretty ad hoc.) Outside of the legislation (which is readily accessible on LexisNexis or Google) did you ever follow his poverty trail campaign where Senator Kennedy went into the 50 most impoverished areas of the US? It was pretty prolific. Why is it bad to try to do something about poverty?

I'm a results-oriented kind of guy. Did Kennedy's trips cure poverty, or did they just make for good magazine covers ? Specifics, please. Seems we have more & more poverty the more liberal our government becomes.

lol...wow. Look up The Family Smoking and Prevention Act. He was pretty involved behind the scenes and as a prolific co-sponsor.

He co=sponsored a bill that cost a lot of money, and teenagers still smoke, by the millions.

During the medicare reform push he worked on this. There are numerous acts including State Children’s Health Insurance Program (SCHIP) and the Americans With Disabilities Act of 1990.


Get out of the Republican shadow. He drove initial government funding for many of these types of research.

Republican shadow ? Didn't Kennedy invent the H.M.O., the very system he later criticized ? And you do realize that SCHIP has it's critics ? You can look it up yourself. And I am not a republican.

The Religious Freedom Restoration Act (RFRA) passed in 1993 and The Prenatally and Postnatally Diagnosed Conditions Awareness Act passed in 2008.

Can you not be at least agreeable on anything? Seriously? How about his votes and legislation in regards to the Legilsative Transparency and Accountability Act, Bipartisan Campaign Reform Act of 2002, etc

In regards to volunteering he worked hard with both parties to expand Americorps, offer incentives for state and federal funding of volutneer initiatives, and directly worked with volunteering groups to raise awareness.

I didn't agree with his position on Bork and any number of issues. I think that Bork was extremely qualified and he absoutely was given a raw deal.

I don't agree with many position that the late Senator held but sooner or later you have to admit he did make a contribution. He wasn't an American hating, socialist spewing person...he loved America and wanted this to be a better place. I love America and want this to be a better place and suspect you do too. But all three of us probably believe in 3 different approaches to making that way.

We can be civil in our disagreement, if for no other reason than this is how Christ commands us to live.

My point here is that at some point we can, we ought to look past someone's clear faults (or specks) and realize that out of our shared humanity we owe them respect. If we cannot bring ourselves to respect them we owe them the dignity of our quieted dissent as they pass from this world to their eternal destiny which we don't know. We owe their families respect to mourn. It is the least we can do. When fail to do this we fail to meet our calling at such a simple level.

It's got nothing to do with being agreeable or not. I do not consider using other people's money to perform charity a good thing. Kennedy lived by a different set of rules. And I do not agree that his critics need to sit in silence while his fans fill up this site with praise for the man. Where does Christ tell us to be civil in our disagreement ? Was he civil to the religious leaders of his day ? Was Stephen ? I don't know why you are focusing on me, anyway. I haven't said anything remotely hateful about him, I have concentrated on policy, and his double-standard way of living.