"...shalt surely die."

That is election by foresight. Arminian doctrine, not calvinism.

 

scriptual

God foreknew so He also predestined them.

Who did He predestined. It surely isn't men who have chosen themselves and call themselves the elect of God.

So I will go with scripture that God is keeping those who are meek and humble who trust in the name of the Lord.

I love scripture more than men leaning on thier own understanding.

I know you want to put me in some kind of category.

I'm just a scripture man.

We can still believe in scripture and not try to change it to fit our doctrine that God does want all men to be saved and come to the knowledge of the truth. Just trust in Lord and do not lean on your own understanding and He will direct your path.

 

All References From TNIV

We have heard your mantra time and time again .

It seems as if you are trying to avoid what the Bible declares often -- concerning election . People don't chose the Lord , He chooses us . As Christians , whether Calvinists or not , we are the elect -- the chosen ones . We are saints , the called-out ones , His people and multiple other designations .

You apparently think it is wrong for someone to refer to him/her self as elect . But again the bible is against you here .

In 2 Peter 1:10 it says : "Therefore , my brothers and sisters , make every effort to confirm your calling and election ."

In 2 Corinthians 13:5 it says : "Examine yourselves to see whether you are in the faith ; test yourselves . Do you not realize that Christ Jesus is in you -- unless , of course you fail the test ?"

In Colossians 3:12 it says : "Therefore , as God's chosen people , holy and dearly loved ..."

For you expunge the words "elect" , "chosen" and "election" ( among other important concepts ) from the Word of God is wrong . You are misguided and leaning too heavily on your feeble understanding instead of relying on the authority of Scripture .

 

Either you have such an extreme and illogical hatred of Calvinism and the Doctrine of Grace, or you don't know Scripture at all.

The Lord of Creation and Author of Salvation of His people called His elect His elect many times in the gospel, referred to them as His people, His sheep.

Many times in Scripture the Creator God stated that HE chose.

If those who adhere to the Doctrine of Grace should refer to themselves as elect, it is because He who elected referred to them as such first.

I am sure you think of yourself as a saint, and call those who call themselves children of God as such, saints and children of God.

Should you now revile them when they do ?

 

Growing and learning

I have no hatret for calvinism we all have growing to do and so much from scripture to learn.

Without calvinist I would not be where I am in my faith.

I have learned many scripture that I never looked at before until they pointed them out.

I agree with the scripture that you point out, but not go with your understanding of them.

Each scripture God puts in my understanding I learn so much more without taking away what God has already taught me through His word.

Election cannot save you, because you can be cut out for unbelief.

I cannot just disown scripture because you all say so.

I believe we are kept by God under His system not our own.

He has chosen to keep and elect people who are meek and humble who trust in the name of the Lord.

Scripture teaches that those who trust in the Lord will not be disappointedand that is anybody

 

I agree with the scripture that you point out, but not go with your understanding of them.

Hmm , I am pressed for time now . I would just like to address the above quote of yours .

I had cited 2 Peter 1:10 , 2 Corinthians 13:5 and Colossians 3:12 in my earlier post ( #63 ) . You say on the one hand that you agree with the verses , but on the other hand you do not have my understanding of them . How , exactly , do you understand them ? They are rather straightforward . I can't conceive how you could have a different take on the passages .

 

Straight forward

I agree with those scripture and all the other scriptures. All scripture works together, we cannot live on pieces of God's word, but on every word that comes from the mouth of God.

Our election is sure by our trust in Jesus.

Hebrews 3:

12See to it, brothers, that none of you has a sinful, unbelieving heart that turns away from the living God. 13But encourage one another daily, as long as it is called Today, so that none of you may be hardened by sin's deceitfulness. 14We have come to share in Christ if we hold firmly till the end the confidence we had at first. 15As has just been said:
"Today, if you hear his voice,
do not harden your hearts
as you did in the rebellion."[Or disbelieved ]

16Who were they who heard and rebelled? Were they not all those Moses led out of Egypt? 17And with whom was he angry for forty years? Was it not with those who sinned, whose bodies fell in the desert? 18And to whom did God swear that they would never enter his rest if not to those who disobeyed[c]? 19So we see that they were not able to enter, because of their unbelief.

 

You seem to think that we believe that you can elect yourself simply by saying "I'm one of the elect". No one knows they are chosen until after they have been born again.

Like I said before, Paul was by no means meek and humble. Read Paul's resume, Phil 3:4-6. Yet God saved him.

 

The only thing that makes are elect sure is our trust in Jesus enduring to the end. You cannot just believe in your heart you are saved your heart will lie to you, the only thing you can trust is in the words of Jesus and He says we must endure to the end to be saved.

It dopesn't matter what we were before Jesus Christ, what matters is what we are after Him.

Being meek and humble and trusting in the Lord was what Paul became, praise be to God

When we take our trust in our own self and put our trust in Jesus we are meek and humble because we are under His feet.

 

It is easy enough to provide the quote sky. That is all i'm asking... for you to provide the quote. I should not have to go to another forum and look for the answer. You made the statement, now back it up or retract it.

 

I don't believe that.

So the Calvinists were the lighthouses that showed you where the rocks and reefs are ?

That's fine, keep it that way. Let me tell you something. When we get to heaven, God is not going to take us into an examination room and hand out examination papers and send us to hell if we fail the exam because it turns out Arminianism is correct, or Calvinism is correct, or "Biblicism" is correct, or Skypair is correct. The Bible says the Book of Life will be checked out and if your name is not there, then you're no citizen of heaven.

Keep in mind that it is Christ who died for you, me, and all who are beneficiaries of eternal salvation thru the mercy of God. It is Christ who is God become man, who put on the form of a slave, who thought it not robbery to be equal with God, who went up on that cross, who loved His people even unto death, who obeyed all the precepts of the Law, who submitted Himself to the Father's will.
Christ. Christ. Christ. Christ. Christ. Christ. Christ. Christ. Christ. Christ. Christ. Christ.
Everything and everyone begins and ends with Christ.
He is the Alpha and the Omega.
Doctrines and theologies are good to know and learn, but they are earthbound, fallible, and they do not take you through the gates of heaven.

Take care that you do not say this with pride.

Please, read context when pointing out stuff like this.

Nobody is asking you to disown Scripture. Please do not put on a martyr/victim complex like somebody here I know.

Then you are saying that the Bible is false when it states ALL have sinned and come short of the glory of God, because now the qualifications for the people whom God chooses to keep and elect are their humility and meekness, traits which are contrary to pride and sinfulness. Either all have sinned and come short of the glory of God, or SOME have sinned but still are meek and humble and therefore deserving of God's mercy. Which is it ?

No comment on this one.

 

I'm no Greek scholar, but if election and sanctification are the same thing, why are they different words in the Greek, with different definitions?

eklogē ek-lo-gā' election, chosen

hagiasmos hä-gē-äs-mo's holiness, sanctification