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"...shalt surely die."
- Thread starter skypair
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psalms109:31
Active Member
scriptual
God foreknew so He also predestined them.
Who did He predestined. It surely isn't men who have chosen themselves and call themselves the elect of God.
So I will go with scripture that God is keeping those who are meek and humble who trust in the name of the Lord.
I love scripture more than men leaning on thier own understanding.
I know you want to put me in some kind of category.
I'm just a scripture man.
We can still believe in scripture and not try to change it to fit our doctrine that God does want all men to be saved and come to the knowledge of the truth. Just trust in Lord and do not lean on your own understanding and He will direct your path.
God foreknew so He also predestined them.
Who did He predestined. It surely isn't men who have chosen themselves and call themselves the elect of God.
So I will go with scripture that God is keeping those who are meek and humble who trust in the name of the Lord.
I love scripture more than men leaning on thier own understanding.
I know you want to put me in some kind of category.
I'm just a scripture man.
We can still believe in scripture and not try to change it to fit our doctrine that God does want all men to be saved and come to the knowledge of the truth. Just trust in Lord and do not lean on your own understanding and He will direct your path.
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All References From TNIV
We have heard your mantra time and time again .
It seems as if you are trying to avoid what the Bible declares often -- concerning election . People don't chose the Lord , He chooses us . As Christians , whether Calvinists or not , we are the elect -- the chosen ones . We are saints , the called-out ones , His people and multiple other designations .
You apparently think it is wrong for someone to refer to him/her self as elect . But again the bible is against you here .
In 2 Peter 1:10 it says : "Therefore , my brothers and sisters , make every effort to confirm your calling and election ."
In 2 Corinthians 13:5 it says : "Examine yourselves to see whether you are in the faith ; test yourselves . Do you not realize that Christ Jesus is in you -- unless , of course you fail the test ?"
In Colossians 3:12 it says : "Therefore , as God's chosen people , holy and dearly loved ..."
For you expunge the words "elect" , "chosen" and "election" ( among other important concepts ) from the Word of God is wrong . You are misguided and leaning too heavily on your feeble understanding instead of relying on the authority of Scripture .
psalms109:31 said:
We have heard your mantra time and time again .
It seems as if you are trying to avoid what the Bible declares often -- concerning election . People don't chose the Lord , He chooses us . As Christians , whether Calvinists or not , we are the elect -- the chosen ones . We are saints , the called-out ones , His people and multiple other designations .
You apparently think it is wrong for someone to refer to him/her self as elect . But again the bible is against you here .
In 2 Peter 1:10 it says : "Therefore , my brothers and sisters , make every effort to confirm your calling and election ."
In 2 Corinthians 13:5 it says : "Examine yourselves to see whether you are in the faith ; test yourselves . Do you not realize that Christ Jesus is in you -- unless , of course you fail the test ?"
In Colossians 3:12 it says : "Therefore , as God's chosen people , holy and dearly loved ..."
For you expunge the words "elect" , "chosen" and "election" ( among other important concepts ) from the Word of God is wrong . You are misguided and leaning too heavily on your feeble understanding instead of relying on the authority of Scripture .
psalms109:31 said:
Either you have such an extreme and illogical hatred of Calvinism and the Doctrine of Grace, or you don't know Scripture at all.
The Lord of Creation and Author of Salvation of His people called His elect His elect many times in the gospel, referred to them as His people, His sheep.
Many times in Scripture the Creator God stated that HE chose.
If those who adhere to the Doctrine of Grace should refer to themselves as elect, it is because He who elected referred to them as such first.
I am sure you think of yourself as a saint, and call those who call themselves children of God as such, saints and children of God.
Should you now revile them when they do ?
psalms109:31
Active Member
Growing and learning
I have no hatret for calvinism we all have growing to do and so much from scripture to learn.
Without calvinist I would not be where I am in my faith.
I have learned many scripture that I never looked at before until they pointed them out.
I agree with the scripture that you point out, but not go with your understanding of them.
Each scripture God puts in my understanding I learn so much more without taking away what God has already taught me through His word.
Election cannot save you, because you can be cut out for unbelief.
I cannot just disown scripture because you all say so.
I believe we are kept by God under His system not our own.
He has chosen to keep and elect people who are meek and humble who trust in the name of the Lord.
Scripture teaches that those who trust in the Lord will not be disappointedand that is anybody
I have no hatret for calvinism we all have growing to do and so much from scripture to learn.
Without calvinist I would not be where I am in my faith.
I have learned many scripture that I never looked at before until they pointed them out.
I agree with the scripture that you point out, but not go with your understanding of them.
Each scripture God puts in my understanding I learn so much more without taking away what God has already taught me through His word.
Election cannot save you, because you can be cut out for unbelief.
I cannot just disown scripture because you all say so.
I believe we are kept by God under His system not our own.
He has chosen to keep and elect people who are meek and humble who trust in the name of the Lord.
Scripture teaches that those who trust in the Lord will not be disappointedand that is anybody
I agree with the scripture that you point out, but not go with your understanding of them.
Hmm , I am pressed for time now . I would just like to address the above quote of yours .
I had cited 2 Peter 1:10 , 2 Corinthians 13:5 and Colossians 3:12 in my earlier post ( #63 ) . You say on the one hand that you agree with the verses , but on the other hand you do not have my understanding of them . How , exactly , do you understand them ? They are rather straightforward . I can't conceive how you could have a different take on the passages .
Hmm , I am pressed for time now . I would just like to address the above quote of yours .
I had cited 2 Peter 1:10 , 2 Corinthians 13:5 and Colossians 3:12 in my earlier post ( #63 ) . You say on the one hand that you agree with the verses , but on the other hand you do not have my understanding of them . How , exactly , do you understand them ? They are rather straightforward . I can't conceive how you could have a different take on the passages .
psalms109:31
Active Member
Straight forward
I agree with those scripture and all the other scriptures. All scripture works together, we cannot live on pieces of God's word, but on every word that comes from the mouth of God.
Our election is sure by our trust in Jesus.
Hebrews 3:
12See to it, brothers, that none of you has a sinful, unbelieving heart that turns away from the living God. 13But encourage one another daily, as long as it is called Today, so that none of you may be hardened by sin's deceitfulness. 14We have come to share in Christ if we hold firmly till the end the confidence we had at first. 15As has just been said:
"Today, if you hear his voice,
do not harden your hearts
as you did in the rebellion."[Or disbelieved ]
16Who were they who heard and rebelled? Were they not all those Moses led out of Egypt? 17And with whom was he angry for forty years? Was it not with those who sinned, whose bodies fell in the desert? 18And to whom did God swear that they would never enter his rest if not to those who disobeyed[c]? 19So we see that they were not able to enter, because of their unbelief.
I agree with those scripture and all the other scriptures. All scripture works together, we cannot live on pieces of God's word, but on every word that comes from the mouth of God.
Our election is sure by our trust in Jesus.
Hebrews 3:
12See to it, brothers, that none of you has a sinful, unbelieving heart that turns away from the living God. 13But encourage one another daily, as long as it is called Today, so that none of you may be hardened by sin's deceitfulness. 14We have come to share in Christ if we hold firmly till the end the confidence we had at first. 15As has just been said:
"Today, if you hear his voice,
do not harden your hearts
as you did in the rebellion."[Or disbelieved ]
16Who were they who heard and rebelled? Were they not all those Moses led out of Egypt? 17And with whom was he angry for forty years? Was it not with those who sinned, whose bodies fell in the desert? 18And to whom did God swear that they would never enter his rest if not to those who disobeyed[c]? 19So we see that they were not able to enter, because of their unbelief.
You seem to think that we believe that you can elect yourself simply by saying "I'm one of the elect". No one knows they are chosen until after they have been born again.psalms109:31 said:
Like I said before, Paul was by no means meek and humble. Read Paul's resume, Phil 3:4-6. Yet God saved him.
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So as Adrian Rogers used to say, you have "laid yourself down in the gutter next to Calvinism and you are taller. Big deal! Let's stand up and see how we compare to God and scripture.Frogman said:
And as to forekowledge -- if God didn't choose BELIEVERS according to foreknowledge, how is it only believers are saved??
skypair
psalms109:31
Active Member
Amy.G said:
The only thing that makes are elect sure is our trust in Jesus enduring to the end. You cannot just believe in your heart you are saved your heart will lie to you, the only thing you can trust is in the words of Jesus and He says we must endure to the end to be saved.
It dopesn't matter what we were before Jesus Christ, what matters is what we are after Him.
Being meek and humble and trusting in the Lord was what Paul became, praise be to God
When we take our trust in our own self and put our trust in Jesus we are meek and humble because we are under His feet.
RB -- pls refrain from character assassination. That's just a "cheap shot" on your part, isn't it. It was on Zolaboard.com/debates forum, another "high fidelity" (sometimes) Calvinist site. I don't make these things up and I don't lie.reformedbeliever said:
skypair
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reformedbeliever
New Member
skypair said:
It is easy enough to provide the quote sky. That is all i'm asking... for you to provide the quote. I should not have to go to another forum and look for the answer. You made the statement, now back it up or retract it.
Yes -- consumed with self. And that is why REPENTANCE from self comes BEFORE regeneration!!Amy.G said:
The process, according to scripture, is this, Amy -- conviction of sin by the Spirit, presentation of the Savior (the gospel), repentance of self and TO Christ, regeneration.
skypair
psalms109:31 said:
I don't believe that.
psalms 109:31 said:
So the Calvinists were the lighthouses that showed you where the rocks and reefs are ?
psalms 109:31 said:
That's fine, keep it that way. Let me tell you something. When we get to heaven, God is not going to take us into an examination room and hand out examination papers and send us to hell if we fail the exam because it turns out Arminianism is correct, or Calvinism is correct, or "Biblicism" is correct, or Skypair is correct. The Bible says the Book of Life will be checked out and if your name is not there, then you're no citizen of heaven.
Keep in mind that it is Christ who died for you, me, and all who are beneficiaries of eternal salvation thru the mercy of God. It is Christ who is God become man, who put on the form of a slave, who thought it not robbery to be equal with God, who went up on that cross, who loved His people even unto death, who obeyed all the precepts of the Law, who submitted Himself to the Father's will.
Christ. Christ. Christ. Christ. Christ. Christ. Christ. Christ. Christ. Christ. Christ. Christ.
Everything and everyone begins and ends with Christ.
He is the Alpha and the Omega.
Doctrines and theologies are good to know and learn, but they are earthbound, fallible, and they do not take you through the gates of heaven.
Take care that you do not say this with pride.psalms 109:31 said:
psalms 109:31 said:
Please, read context when pointing out stuff like this.
psalms 109:31 said:
Nobody is asking you to disown Scripture. Please do not put on a martyr/victim complex like somebody here I know.
psalms 109:31 said:
Then you are saying that the Bible is false when it states ALL have sinned and come short of the glory of God, because now the qualifications for the people whom God chooses to keep and elect are their humility and meekness, traits which are contrary to pride and sinfulness. Either all have sinned and come short of the glory of God, or SOME have sinned but still are meek and humble and therefore deserving of God's mercy. Which is it ?
psalms 109:31 said:
No comment on this one.
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Bless you, psa!! Here's what Calvinism doesn't understand (and I am trying to explain to David Lamb on another thread) ---- Election is Sanctification. It comes AFTER we are saved - after we believe.psalms109:31 said:
Basically, God foreknows who will be saved. Them He predestines/elects to sanctification which is growth in grace. That's exactly what Rom 8:29-30 says.
Well, how does He predestine? By the Holy Spirit that indwells us. He doesn't/can't predestine the lost but He can predestine us because His Spirit talks to us.
Calvies won't understand this but that's because they are in the "spider's web" that Job talked about. Job is really a blessing when talking to Calvies. I think it was Bildad said, "Hey, Job. Just listen to the wisdom of the ancients. We are but a vapor but men have built up so much wisdom. Count on them"
And then my faovrite -- "Shall they not teach thee and tell thee; and utter words out of their heart?" (Job 8:10) Wow! That seals it, doesn't it! Doctrines of men uttered with such sincerity!! Job wasn't impressed -- and neither am I and neither are you!
skypair
Rip -- you are not reading gospel passages in ascribing salvation to yourself. You are reading what you want to believe applies to you.Rippon said:
What is the gospel, rip? That God elects? Or repent, be baptized, receive (Acts 2:38)? Is it "God elects" or Jesus died for you sins and mine -- repent and believe on Him?
Choose, rip! "Save yourself" from this untoward Calvinism!
skypair
I'll say that same to you I said to rip in case you don't read other people's mail -- you're reading the "effect" rather than the "cause" of salvation from scripture!! This is so important! What does the GOSPEL say?? Acts 2:38 -- 1Cor 15:1-4 -- Christ died for your sin. BELIEVE - REPENT - RECEIVE!pinoybaptist said:
NO -- you are NOT elect if you don't believe and repent! The Bible is NOT ambiguous about this! God foreknew you and then elected your sanctification! your purpose, your ministry, His "plan for your life!" If you are not saved according to the gospel, you are sanctifying dead flesh! You are "going through the motions!" Pls pinoy, reconsider!
skypair