"...shalt surely die."

[Amy.G]

I'll say that same to you I said to rip in case you don't read other people's mail -- you're reading the "effect" rather than the "cause" of salvation from scripture!! This is so important! What does the GOSPEL say?? Acts 2:38 -- 1Cor 15:1-4 -- Christ died for your sin. BELIEVE - REPENT - RECEIVE!

NO -- you are NOT elect if you don't believe and repent! The Bible is NOT ambiguous about this! God foreknew you and then elected your sanctification! your purpose, your ministry, His "plan for your life!" If you are not saved according to the gospel, you are sanctifying dead flesh! You are "going through the motions!" Pls pinoy, reconsider!

skypair

I think you have it backwards. We are not elected for sanctification through salvation, but the other way around.

2Th 2:13 But we should always give thanks to God for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God has chosen you from the beginning for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and faith in the truth.

 

[skypair]

I'm no Greek scholar, but if election and sanctification are the same thing, why are they different words in the Greek, with different definitions?

eklogē ek-lo-gā' election, chosen

hagiasmos hä-gē-äs-mo's holiness, sanctification

Amy -- they are different expressions of what is happening to the believer. Think of election as your career field/ministry and think of sanctification as what God is doing through you spiritually.

I was a pilot, Amy. Flew big DC-10's. That wasn't my sanctification -- it was my election. My sanctification was being the communicator for our FedEx pilot's prayer group. God blessed me, grew me, spiritually so much not because I was a pilot but because He led me into that ministry with my fellow pilots for 8 years!

That's how I would differentiate it, Amy. I wasn't meant to be a preacher but I was able to grow in the place that God used to sanctify me.

skypair

 

[Amy.G]

Amy -- they are different expressions of what is happening to the believer. Think of election as your career field/ministry and think of sanctification as what God is doing through you spiritually.

I was a pilot, Amy. Flew big DC-10's. That wasn't my sanctification -- it was my election. My sanctification was being the communicator for our FedEx pilot's prayer group. God blessed me, grew me, spiritually so much not because I was a pilot but because He led me into that ministry with my fellow pilots for 8 years!

That's how I would differentiate it, Amy. I wasn't meant to be a preacher but I was able to grow in the place that God used to sanctify me.

skypair

I don't understand your analogy, but the Bible says that we were chosen for salvation, not chosen for sanctification.

 

[pinoybaptist]

I'll say that same to you I said to rip in case you don't read other people's mail -- you're reading the "effect" rather than the "cause" of salvation from scripture!! This is so important! What does the GOSPEL say?? Acts 2:38 -- 1Cor 15:1-4 -- Christ died for your sin. BELIEVE - REPENT - RECEIVE!

NO -- you are NOT elect if you don't believe and repent! The Bible is NOT ambiguous about this! God foreknew you and then elected your sanctification! your purpose, your ministry, His "plan for your life!" If you are not saved according to the gospel, you are sanctifying dead flesh! You are "going through the motions!" Pls pinoy, reconsider!

skypair

skypair:

salvation is OF the Lord. Its ONLY cause is MERCY (Titus 3:5). Believe, repent, and receive applies to the regenerate, not the unregenerate. To say you are not elect if you don't believe and repent can only apply to those who are within the hearing and teaching of the gospel, who profess knowledge of Christ and sonship of the living God yet willfully, knowingly, and deliberately choose a life of sin.

However, even that you cannot use as a hard and fast rule because of people like Noah, Lot, and Samson who very clearly did not live lives sanctified TO the Lord, but are sanctified BY the Lord.

No, you reconsider.

 

[webdog]

salvation is OF the Lord. Its ONLY cause is MERCY (Titus 3:5). Believe, repent, and receive applies to the regenerate, not the unregenerate.

Bologna. If one is regenerate (has ALREADY passed from death to life), believe, repent and receive is unnecessary for eternal life.

To say you are not elect if you don't believe and repent can only apply to those who are within the hearing and teaching of the gospel, who profess knowledge of Christ and sonship of the living God yet willfully, knowingly, and deliberately choose a life of sin.

This is about as hyper calvinist as one can get! If you don't believe and repent...you are going to hell, and clearly are not elect!

 

[J.D.]

Election is Sanctification

I don't think even your hero Adrian Rogers would take off with that load on board. That's so strange I don't know which heresy to identify it with.

 

[pinoybaptist]

Bologna. If one is regenerate (has ALREADY passed from death to life), believe, repent and receive is unnecessary for eternal life.

Therein lies the confusion among you. Salvation in the Bible has two aspects.

The Eternal Salvation which is the one I refer to as OF the Lord. It demanded nothing. Not by works of righteousnesses which we have done, but according to HIS mercy He SAVED us (Titus 3:5).
This salvation was secured by Christ, is OF Christ, BY Christ, and requires nothing from its recipient.
This was authored and finished by Christ.
This was the will of the Father for all whom He gave to Christ.
This salvation demands no theology, no doctrine, no righteousness from its subject, this salvation is FOR heaven and UNTO heaven.
This salvation is worldwide in that its recipients are scattered all over the world.
This salvation was paid for by the blood of Christ at the cross here in time, and guaranteed in eternity past by the blood of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

On the other hand, you have salvation from dead works.
That salvation REQUIRES repentance, faith and belief.
That salvation requires action: save yourselves from this untoward generation, cried Peter. Choose life, and not death, says Jehovah through Moses. Did you steal ? steal no more, says Paul. Follow me, says Christ.
Save me from my enemies, cries out David.

This is about as hyper calvinist as one can get! If you don't believe and repent...you are going to hell, and clearly are not elect!

Call it what you will.
It matters not to me, sir.

 

[webdog]

The Eternal Salvation which is the one I refer to as OF the Lord. It demanded nothing. Not by works of righteousnesses which we have done, but according to HIS mercy He SAVED us (Titus 3:5).

Wrong, it demands faith in Christ. No exceptions.

This salvation was secured by Christ, is OF Christ, BY Christ, and requires nothing from its recipient.

Wrong, it demands faith in Christ. No exceptions.

This was authored and finished by Christ.

Agreed.

This was the will of the Father for all whom He gave to Christ.
This salvation demands no theology, no doctrine, no righteousness from its subject, this salvation is FOR heaven and UNTO heaven.
This salvation is worldwide in that its recipients are scattered all over the world.
This salvation was paid for by the blood of Christ at the cross here in time, and guaranteed in eternity past by the blood of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

Agreed.

On the other hand, you have salvation from dead works.
That salvation REQUIRES repentance, faith and belief.
That salvation requires action: save yourselves from this untoward generation, cried Peter. Choose life, and not death, says Jehovah through Moses. Did you steal ? steal no more, says Paul. Follow me, says Christ.
Save me from my enemies, cries out David.

This is just as bad as the ME heresy...a two salvations gospel. If that is considered by the BB to be "damnable heresies", how in the world does the BB allow this garbage?

 

[Jarthur001]

I don't think even your hero Adrian Rogers would take off with that load on board. That's so strange I don't know which heresy to identify it with.

:laugh: :laugh:

I read the post you are talking about yesterday. It was so strange, I didn't know how to reply.

I think you said it well.

 

[J.D.]

Wrong, it demands faith in Christ. No exceptions.

Wrong, it demands faith in Christ. No exceptions.

Agreed.

Agreed.

This is just as bad as the ME heresy...a two salvations gospel. If that is considered by the BB to be "damnable heresies", how in the world does the BB allow this garbage?

They would have to ban all Primitive Baptists. A good example of why I am generally opposed to banning. Anyway, it's not like he's saying that Christians go to hell like the ME's say.

And while we're banning people, let's ban Skypair. I don't think even you can defend that election=sanctification stuff.

 

[webdog]

Anyway, it's not like he's saying that Christians go to hell like the ME's say.

I think it's worse. He basically says one can be saved without ever having faith in Christ.

And while we're banning people, let's ban Skypair. I don't think even you can defend that election=sanctification stuff.

I wouldn't consider that heresy. Misaplication, maybe. I don't agree with that, btw.

 

[Jarthur001]

If that is considered by the BB to be "damnable heresies", how in the world does the BB allow this garbage?

Just wanting to repost this, in case other did not see it.

 

[Rippon]

Hey , I pointed this out before -- a moderator here says "Calvinism is damnable doctrine" . Maybe some other mods think along the same lines without directly saying so .

If these people think that is the case I do not know why Calvinists are allowed to post here . They should be banned from the BB . But if the teachings that Calvinists hold to are considered 'damnable' then the ultimate banning would be hell .

Of course , since I believe that the Bible teaches what some non-cals call 'damnable doctrines' I think it is reprehensible for such language to be tolerated on the BB . Those individuals need to be schooled in Scripture .

 

[Amy.G]

I've also read where a moderator called Calvinism a damnable heresy, but I don't understand why he thinks it condemns one to hell. I thought the only thing that condemned a person was unbelief. At least that's what Jesus said.

 

[webdog]

I think you guys are missing the point. I didn't call calvinism a damnable heresy. If you read the thread, the two salvation interpretation (similar in nature to ME) put forth by pinoybaptist is what I referred to, the fact one can be "elect" and saved without faith in Christ.

 

[J.D.]

I think you guys are missing the point. I didn't call calvinism a damnable heresy. If you read the thread, the two salvation interpretation (similar in nature to ME) put forth by pinoybaptist is what I referred to, the fact one can be "elect" and saved without faith in Christ.

To borrow from your own words, it's a "misapplication". The question is: If infants can be saved without Gospel preaching, why can't an adult? I used to agree with the PB opinion on this, but not now. But I can't answer the question to my own satisfaction either.

 

[webdog]

To borrow from your own words, it's a "misapplication"

It's not a misapplication to state there are two salvations. It's a misapplication to state one word means something else, but not two distinct salvations.

Infants are saved because they are innocent of Adam's sin (and their own), that's why they don't need faith in order to be saved, they are not separated from God at that point.

 

[J.D.]

It's not a misapplication to state there are two salvations. It's a misapplication to state one word means something else, but not two distinct salvations.

Infants are saved because they are innocent of Adam's sin (and their own), that's why they don't need faith in order to be saved, they are not separated from God at that point.

So then you have a different system of salvation for infants than for adults. Two ways of salvation. Pot, meet kettle.

 

[Rippon]

I've also read where a moderator called Calvinism a damnable heresy, but I don't understand why he thinks it condemns one to hell. I thought the only thing that condemned a person was unbelief. At least that's what Jesus said.

If certain teachings are called 'damnable' that should mean that the person holding those beliefs are bound for Hell . But in this careless age perhaps 'damnable' doesn't have such a strong meaning any longer . But that's just wishy-washy thinking .

Unbelief is not the only thing that sends someone to Hell . I know what John 3:18 says . But our sins send us to Hell . Those who have never heard the Gospel are not condemned to Hell for non-belief in the name of the One and Only Son of God . But to Hell they will go regardless .

 

[webdog]

So then you have a different system of salvation for infants than for adults. Two ways of salvation. Pot, meet kettle.

Christ came to save the spiritually dead, of which infants are not. That is NOT two salvations.
What do innocent infants need saving from? Nothing.