Should a Christian Serve in the Military?

[Rufus_1611]

Although this is probably a pointless argument with you my brother, I will state a few simple facts. We attacked Al Qaeda in the country of Afghanistan. They really, truly, are, despite what you may have heard on Art Bell, the group of GOD hating Muslims who want to destroy every one who follows and supports HIM, and proved it by killing nearly three thousand Americans in the attack on the World Trade Center.

You don't have to listen to Art Bell (and no I don't listen to him) to know that Larry Silverstein doesn't work for Al Qaeda.

We saved lives by killing them, and crippling their ability to do it again. Everyone we kill, is one more who does not blow up innocent civilians.

The 200,000 to 600,000 dead Iraqis and Afghanis...how many of them were Al Qaeda?

Everyone we kill, is one who does not kill another American Soldier, who is bound to strict rules of engagement. Everyone we kill is one, who will not bomb your church this coming Sunday.

No Muslim has ever bombed an American church. Killing people for fear of what they might do is equivalent to taking out a nation because they might use WMD.

We attacked Iraq. A country filled with GOD hating Muslims. Ruled by a dictator who could not be trusted. After destroying his regime, we have been constantly attacked by GOD hating Muslims from that area.

Is that the criteria now?...to be God hating? There is a whole bunch of God hating atheists, Wiccans, Muslims and Jews in the USA should we kill them? For that matter there are Wiccans, atheists and Muslims in our armed forces, will they be fragged soon?

Every GOD hating Muslim we kill is one GOD hating Muslim that will not bomb your church while you worship the True GOD. Every GOD hating Muslim we kill is one that will not kill another American Soldier in a cowardly suicide bombing. American Soldiers who are bound to strict ROE. American Soldiers that are put on trial for murder when they do not follow the ridiculous ROE, yet they continue to willfully defend this country and its Constitution which guarantees you the right to worship the True GOD in your church each Sunday, and insult the American Soldiers who defend the Constitution you say you love.

Since the beginning of the Iraq war...

...the Hovind decision, the arrest of street preachers in PA, the arrest of Bereans handing out Bibles on a sidewalk, the torture and killing of Roger Holyfield and prior to the war, the confiscation and bull-dozing of the Indianapolis Baptist Temple has infringed on the first amendment.

...the confiscation of arms of law-abiding citizens in Louisiana after a hurricane infringed on the citizens right to bear arms according to the 2nd amendment.

...during the Louisiana occupation, the military quartered troops in a church without the authorization of the owners, an infringement upon the third amendment.

...the NSA, FBI and other alphabet agencies regularly infringe on the fourth amendment by snooping on citizens without cause or a warrant.

...the Kelo decision has infringed on the fifth amendment rights of persons to property and will affect a land grab of approximately one million acres in Texas for an international superhighway.

...you are now advocating for an infringement upon the thirteenth amendment by forcing involuntary servitude upon the citizens of this nation through conscription.

What elements of the Constitution do you believe you are protecting and defending?

 

[Warhound]

You're saying that being drafted into the military "has nothing to do with scripture." I don't believe that anything in this life has "nothing to do with scripture." Secondly, you go on to say that a war started by a Muslim President does not have God in it. Well, I suppose not since you've already said that war has nothing to do with our faith.

Are you kidding? Different points man! Just enjoy the freedom you have, thanks to brave men and women who have been, and are, willing to fight, kill and die to preserve it.

 

[Warhound]

Maybe you are right Rufus. Maybe I should resign my commission and be a peace activist.

Flag burning and civil disobedience is a much better way to keep terrorists from attacking us. Oh, yeah, it wasn't terrorists. It was Jewish bankers. Oh wait! maybe it was the CEO of Halliburtion. Or maybe, it was Beelzebub and his squad of demons, dressed like Arabs, hoping to start WW3 and set the stage for the A.C.

And what do law abiding citizens need with personal weapons anyway. Especially handguns. I don't know anyone that shoots squirrels with Glocks. And since killing bad guys is a sin against God, we don't have any need of those things anyway. I am going to take mine to have them destroyed tomorrow.

While were at it, we should see to dissolving the police forces. They may have to shoot a bad guy if they see one beating an old lady, and deprive her from her ability to turn the other cheek.

I think we have left the field of sanity here.

 

[saturneptune]

Maybe you are right Rufus. Maybe I should resign my commission and be a peace activist.

Flag burning and civil disobedience is a much better way to keep terrorists from attacking us. Oh, yeah, it wasn't terrorists. It was Jewish bankers. Oh wait! maybe it was the CEO of Halliburtion. Or maybe, it was Beelzebub and his squad of demons, dressed like Arabs, hoping to start WW3 and set the stage for the A.C.

And what do law abiding citizens need with personal weapons anyway. Especially handguns. I don't know anyone that shoots squirrels with Glocks. And since killing bad guys is a sin against God, we don't have any need of those things anyway. I am going to take mine to have them destroyed tomorrow.

While were at it, we should see to dissolving the police forces. They may have to shoot a bad guy if they see one beating an old lady, and deprive her from her ability to turn the other cheek.

I think we have left the field of sanity here.

First of all, since you addressed yourself as a commissioned officer, you have a duty to do your job given you by your superiors. If you have political opinions to express, you do so as a private citizen.

The very actions above that you are ranting about in the above posts are those freedoms you voluntarily chose to protect.

There was a time in American history that the battlefield had a mixture of draftees and volunteers, who had to work together to survive, and could not afford to worry about the antics of what went on back home. I wonder how well you would have done with your commission 40 years ago.

Getting back to the op, it is quite an honor to serve in the military as a Christian. God has truly blessed this nation, and I was very proud to serve it. I still work for the government going on 35 years, and have no regrets. The fact that this war has been run by inept people has nothing to do with the honor of serving and protecting our freedoms, or the great job our troops are doing.

 

[rbell]

Patriotism and service to this country is service to the Lord, as long as this country guarantees freedom to openly worship the Lord. As long as the military makes exceptions for alternate service to combat and a Christian is willing to serve in that capacity, then I have no problem with them. But, if they refuse to serve their country in a non-combat capacity when called upon, they are just as guilty as someone who refuses to pay taxes or obey the law.

All this is a moot point, as we have a volunteer army.

Warhound...I am not against military service. I could see quite a few scenarios in which I would enlist. (Although I would not be too high on the military's list, because of my physical limitations). But I do not agree with forced service at this point in our history either.

I was referring to mandatory military service for all able men. This is a patriotic thing, it has nothing to do with scripture. If you don't believe in killin then serve as a cook. If a person believes that there is a scriptural reason forbidding military service in any capacity, they don't belong in this country. But that's okay, because honorable men and women will continue to defend their rights to be cowards.

First, take one of these:

deep breath, warhound. I wasn't making this about "forbidding service in any capacity." I was simply saying I didn't see a scriptural mandate that supported forced military service. I hold to the "priesthood" issue, and know that there will be lots of different takes on this issue.

Are you really that angry at many (or all) of us? Your reply to my post may have just been generalities...but it seemed to me as if the "don't deserve to be here" and "coward" comments were directed my way. I hope I just misunderstood.

 

[ituttut]

Should a Christian Serve in the Military? I'm considering going in as an officer and would like to hear some opinions.

I lost one brother (Army) in WW II, and my other brother served in the Navy, also WWII, dying way to early. I have a son-in-law in the Army, and a grandson in the Air Force, and they both have been over there, and expect to go back. They all exhibit/ed the same traits we find in Matthew 8:5-13. Every Christian is a soldier for we exhibit the same traits as the honorable that will lay down their lives for their loved one's, their friend's, their country, and to protect religious liberty, and every person that hate's their guts. The main trait is faith, for in faith we must trust.

I didn't join the Marines in the Korean War to kill, but to protect. In War Times (and we are in a War), this is also the reason those join the Army, Navy, Air Force, and Coast Guard. They feel they have a duty to their Country, and those in it. Those that join during peacetime may not have done it for the same reason when they joined, but they knew when "push came to shove" they may have to kill to protect their way of life, and those in their life. Jesus didn't condemn this soldier, but praised him. I don't understand how anyone can have such low esteem for those that fight against evil. Why would anyone pronounce unjust judgment on a warrior that protects when Jesus didn't? From where do they get their authority?

He laid down His life for us, and won that battle, gaining the Victory breaking the bars, taking captive captive. Jesus Christ fought and that is the Power of God, and He will crush any that oppose Him. It was not His purpose the first time to spill mans blood, but it will be when He returns....He will see to it the evil's blood will flow, and His servants will fight. In the meantime we need to hold out as long as we can to protect this little kingdom we live in.

All are not chosen to this way of life, and many understand and do not condemn their "savior's of the flesh", their "protector's", but pray God's blessing to be on them, and that His Will be done in each of their lives, and the conflict can come to a close. These are those that show and express their love for these brave one's. As long as this enemy either attacks, or resist's in terrorist acts we must continue or be "sliced and diced", for we are "infidel's that must be destroyed, along with Israel.

For the pacifist, I can see the difficulty, but I cannot understand it, as they can't understand me. All I can understand is what God allows, and it doesn't agree with what God tells them. What the pacifist fails to see is they are killers just as the warriors. If they have their way, they would allow the enemy to continue to kill their own people, and then kill us. Mankind is not going to bring peace to this world, so blood will continue as evil tries to destroy good. Peace will only come when Christ Jesus returns to this earth.

May not count for much, but you have my vote to join, for I don't believe you have any doubt that God approves and has some to be a buffer to protect those loved against evil.

 

[Warhound]

All this is a moot point, as we have a volunteer army.

Warhound...I am not against military service. I could see quite a few scenarios in which I would enlist. (Although I would not be too high on the military's list, because of my physical limitations). But I do not agree with forced service at this point in our history either.



First, take one of these:

deep breath, warhound. I wasn't making this about "forbidding service in any capacity." I was simply saying I didn't see a scriptural mandate that supported forced military service. I hold to the "priesthood" issue, and know that there will be lots of different takes on this issue.

Are you really that angry at many (or all) of us? Your reply to my post may have just been generalities...but it seemed to me as if the "don't deserve to be here" and "coward" comments were directed my way. I hope I just misunderstood.

First, I apologize to anyone who may have been insulted by my comments. I started out this post by revealing too much of my personal belief. Simply stating that military service is honorable, and that many faithful Christian men and women have served throughout this country's history, would have been enough.

Second, since we have an all volunteer force, why debate the issue? Well, speaking as a civilian, because some believe our military is way too small to perform the many missions it is doing and to accomplish the missions it still has to do. Many of our leaders are debating this right now. I believe it is a shame that the 'gay rights' crowd are using the under-strength military argument to force Congress to allow homosexuals to serve openly. I believe that will be a strong deterrent to recruiting. If we want to avoid a draft and these other measures, maybe more Christians should be serving.

Third, my comments were in agreement with many soldiers, and veterans whom I have spoken with recently. All the criticism seems to come from those who have not served, and from many of those who make sure their sons, and daughters will never have to serve. It is frustrating to hear and to see.

One thing I believe we can agree on is that regardless of your position on the military, we can thank God we have one. We can thank God for the freedom which He has allowed us to keep through the service of men and women (volunteer or drafted) throughout our history. And, we need to pray for the safety of our men and women, and for the success of every mission they go upon, and thank God for them every day.

Once again, I apologize for any offense that may have been taken from my comments.

God Bless the U.S.A. and God Bless the military.

 

[StraightAndNarrow]

Are you kidding? Different points man! Just enjoy the freedom you have, thanks to brave men and women who have been, and are, willing to fight, kill and die to preserve it.

So you claim that there things which we encounter in life which have nothing to do with our faith? Are you kidding?

 

[Bro. James]

There was war in heaven--there is war on earth, the demons having been cast down. Satan is still trying to dethrone God. The intensity is increasing. Then there is the war against the Bride.

Does God use a human military for His purpose? Read the exploits of Joshua in the OT. Israel was punished for not eradicating pagan idolatry exactly as God proscribed.

I voluntarily made five oaths of enlistment to defend the U.S. Constitution--all during war time. The oaths for Presidents, Congress and Military are very similar--defend the Constitution.) I was issued an M-16 and kept it near me while operating a bulldozer in the jungle. Never had to use it. We were building schools and roads--near the coca highway, north of Noriegaville. The Coca War is still raging.

Israel is still at war--the roots go back to the first-born son of Abraham, name: Ishmael. His offspring are Moslem--including Osamas and Saddams. This is still the same war: Satan against God.

Now we are defending our homeland--again. How soon we forget.

Tough decision.

"Seek first the Kingdom of God, and His righteousness..."

Choose wisely,

Bro. James

 

[Rufus_1611]

Now we are defending our homeland--again. How soon we forget.

The United States of America has been invaded by 20-28 million Catholics who have illegally entered our "homeland" unimpeded. Additional invaders are entering every day. Meanwhile, we are killing people in a land whose people have not committed an offense against us and have not invaded our heimatland. If there was an actual desire to protect our "homeland" wouldn't it be logical to stop this invasion and the potential "terrorists" that are coming in uninvited?

Reporter: "What did Iraq have to do with 9/11?"
President: "Nothing."

 

[poncho]

The current wars have nothing to do with defending our homeland, our people or our civil constitution nor are they being waged to liberate others. The war on terror, the war on drugs, the war on poverty, etc. These wars as well as many other past wars are and were fought not to protect us or free other people from bondage but to protect the interests of a few and secure to them special privileges. But this is old news and as history plainly shows an even older cycle of events that repeats everytime the few feel their power over the people and the resources and treasures of the people slipping from their grasp.

I have no problem serving this great nation in the armed forces in defense our constitution, homes and people. But seldom is the case that war is fought for these ideals. Go back to the 1890's and discover how the people and public opinion were skillfully manipulated by the plutocrats and their minions into waging war against Spain or to the very early days of the 1900's when the exact same ploys and methods were used to declare war against Germany and truck our young men to European battle fields not for any honorable reasons but simply because,

[The plutocrats believe there are some things worse than war]: the confiscation of special privileges; the abolition of unearned income; the overthrow of the economic parasitism; the establishment of industrial democracy. The plutocrats would welcome a war that promised salvation from any such calamities; they would also welcome a war that promised greater foreign markets, the destruction of foreign competition, more security for property rights and a longer lease on life for plutocratic despotism.

SOURCE

Read "The Great Madness" slowly and maybe you'll notice as I have how history has been repeating itself everytime war has been put forward as a 'solution' by the plutocrats of the past which have turned into the kleptocrats of today. They use the same language, the same urging, the same shouts, the same demands, the same insistance, the same fears, the same words, the same threats of terrors and certain destruction soon to be unleashed upon the land and people. The only things that ever change is the faces of those agitating for war and those faces that are soon to die because we refuse to see the same deceptions and manipulations that have been used over and over again to start wars for what they truely are.

[FONT=verdana, geneva] Washington, Adams, Jefferson and Monroe all cautioned against involving this new nation in "foreign entanglements" with the centuries old wars and disputes of "old world" politics. In less than 100 years, the political leadership of the USA had become so entwined with banking and industrial interests that it conspired with them to create public hysteria for the specific purpose of involving the nation in a war 3500 miles from our shores. As you read the following analysis bear in mind that the first trans-Atlantic solo flight did not take place until 1927, a full ten years after this was written. Regardless, by 1917 elected USA politicians and their henchmen, including many intellectuals, had been able to persuade the masses that their homeland was threatened. Legislation similar to today's Patriot Act was enacted and widespread censorship of the press, the mails and public speech was implemented. The manipulation of our populace by President Wilson and his administration was emulated and refined less than two decades later by Mr. Adolf Hitler in his own country.[/FONT][FONT=verdana, geneva] Stewart Ogilby[/FONT]

And once again the same manipulations have been emulated by the Bush/Clinton/Bush administrations, their cronies and "allies" to bring us the phoney 'war on terror' they hoped would last for decades. But this time they didn't forsee or plan on the internet with it's free flow of uncensored information and almost total access to unadulterated history and documents may be able to squash their plans for neoliberal world domination at the expense of the people, our republic and liberty.

How soon we forget.

How soon we forget Indeed! That we've been down this same road over and over. Choose wisely? How can we do that when we can't even remember how many times we've been drug down the same path to war by the same interests using the same ploys and manipulations, not just one or two times, but everytime they agitate for war!

How soon we forget that,...

War is the health of the State. It automatically sets in motion throughout society those irresistible forces for uniformity, for passionate cooperation with the Government in coercing into obedience the minority groups and individuals which lack the larger herd sense. The machinery of government sets and enforces the drastic penalties; the minorities are either intimidated into silence, or brought slowly around by a subtle process of persuasion which may seem to them really to be converting them. Of course, the ideal of perfect loyalty, perfect uniformity is never really attained. The classes upon whom the amateur work of coercion falls are unwearied in their zeal, but often their agitation instead of converting, merely serves to stiffen their resistance. Minorities are rendered sullen, and some intellectual opinion bitter and satirical. But in general, the nation in wartime attains a uniformity of feeling, a hierarchy of values culminating at the undisputed apex of the State ideal, which could not possibly be produced through any other agency than war. Loyalty — or mystic devotion to the State — becomes the major imagined human value. Other values, such as artistic creation, knowledge, reason, beauty, the enhancement of life, are instantly and almost unanimously sacrificed, and the significant classes who have constituted themselves the amateur agents of the State are engaged not only in sacrificing these values for themselves but in coercing all other persons into sacrificing them.

[FONT=verdana, geneva]Randolph Bourne[/FONT]

But then this generation probably never understood that to begin with. Thank God there is still alittle time that we may.

 

[corndogggy]

Serving in the military is never prohibited in the Bible. In fact, it's never looked down upon or discouraged either.

It goes well beyond that. Many folks in the bible that were to be looked up to were military oriented, either serving directly or commanding/building an army, including David, Abraham, Saul, Solomon... and even some Roman soldiers were praised as being good Christians.

Read Matthew 8, Jesus healed a centurion's servant because the soldier's faith was so great. If Jesus thought that the soldier was wrong simply for being in the army, would he have marveled at this man's faith and done what he wanted to?


-------------
" 5When Jesus had entered Capernaum, a centurion came to him, asking for help. 6"Lord," he said, "my servant lies at home paralyzed and in terrible suffering."

7Jesus said to him, "I will go and heal him."

8The centurion replied, "Lord, I do not deserve to have you come under my roof. But just say the word, and my servant will be healed. 9For I myself am a man under authority, with soldiers under me. I tell this one, 'Go,' and he goes; and that one, 'Come,' and he comes. I say to my servant, 'Do this,' and he does it."

10When Jesus heard this, he was astonished and said to those following him, "I tell you the truth, I have not found anyone in Israel with such great faith. 11I say to you that many will come from the east and the west, and will take their places at the feast with Abraham, Isaac and Jacob in the kingdom of heaven. 12But the subjects of the kingdom will be thrown outside, into the darkness, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth."

13Then Jesus said to the centurion, "Go! It will be done just as you believed it would." And his servant was healed at that very hour. "

 

[rbell]

First, I apologize to anyone who may have been insulted by my comments. I started out this post by revealing too much of my personal belief. Simply stating that military service is honorable, and that many faithful Christian men and women have served throughout this country's history, would have been enough.

accepted. thanks.

We can thank God for the freedom which He has allowed us to keep through the service of men and women (volunteer or drafted) throughout our history. And, we need to pray for the safety of our men and women

Absolutely.
:wavey:

 

[RockRambler]

Probably the vast majority of soldiers on both sides of the Civil War claimed to be Christian.

Wonder which ones were right for killing their Christian brothers, and who was wrong for killing their Christian brothers? :tear:

 

[2 Timothy2:1-4]

Yes.:thumbs:

 

[ituttut]

The current wars have nothing to do with defending our homeland, our people or our civil constitution nor are they being waged to liberate others.

Looks to be Dribble.

It will always be good versus evil. You see our USofA as the villain. God will use those He wishes to protect a certain number of Israelites from being annihilated. In WWII we were chosen, and to date He is still using us.

The world is not perfect, and neither are we, but we know God is in control and chooses the good leaders to oppose the evil ones.

 

[go2church]

The answer to your question is clearly one that must be settled in your own heart and mind. Concerning military service, right or wrong, well that is going to go on for decades and decades.

Though I once tried to join the military, I would not do so now. I simply could not square it with my conscience for many reasons the least of which is the potential of having to kill someone in battle.

Do consider that for years Christians were on the wrong end of the swords, when this was the case they were on the whole non-violent. Once those calling themselves "Christians" got on the right end of the sword they were able to come up with something called "Just War". Could two statements be more opposed to one another? (Perhaps - Army Intelligence or Clean Dirt)

I don't believe the military is evil or that soldiers are bad, they have chosen a way of life that I am now glad did not happen for me. I appreciate what they have done and do pray for them.

It must also be said that I striving to grow to the point where I am concerned very little with protecting my freedom as an American citizen and more concerned with responding to my spiritual responsibility as a Kingdom of God citizen. Not there yet but hopefully getting closer.

 

[corndogggy]

It must also be said that I striving to grow to the point where I am concerned very little with protecting my freedom as an American citizen and more concerned with responding to my spiritual responsibility as a Kingdom of God citizen. Not there yet but hopefully getting closer.

Ah, but therein lies the problem. If everybody thought this way, then you can guarantee that our freedoms would disappear, then it wouldn't exactly be easy whatsoever to be concerned with your spiritual responsibilities. Best case scenario, we'd go back to the Church of England days, in which we fought a war to get away from. If your forefathers felt the same way, that would have never happened. Worst case scenario we'd have a Taliban guy with an AK-47 pointed at us telling us to kneel to Allah 5 times a day among other things or basically be put to death.

I bet if you really thought about it, you're extremely happy that there are real men who are extremely concerned with protecting YOUR freedom as an American citizen.

 

[bapmom]

one thing Ive noticed in this discussion is that some don't seem to realize a basic concept in the American soldier's mentality. They are not so much concerned with their own personal freedom. What they are thinking about is MY freedom (and yours, and every other person in America).

So yes, you can say that you don't want to join the military because you are not concerned with your own freedom. But that's not what our military men and women fight for. They fight for YOUR freedom, not their own.

 

[Rufus_1611]

one thing Ive noticed in this discussion is that some don't seem to realize a basic concept in the American soldier's mentality. They are not so much concerned with their own personal freedom. What they are thinking about is MY freedom (and yours, and every other person in America).

So yes, you can say that you don't want to join the military because you are not concerned with your own freedom. But that's not what our military men and women fight for. They fight for YOUR freedom, not their own.

Please provide a couple examples of the "freedom" they are fighting for. Once you have provided those examples, please cite a specific example of an Iraqi or an Afghani infringing upon one of these freedoms.