Should Christians STRONGLY support the 2ND AMENDMENT?

[NaasPreacher (C4K)]

No one is advocating gleefully turning oneself in for persecution.

I wonder how Christians all over the world survive and have faith without second amendment rights?

After all, they can't be secure, they have no guns to take care of themselves and kill others.

What can they possibly trust in if not guns?

 

[OCC]

How is it being a fatalist to believe what Jesus said?

Religion is a private matter. Evangelism is fine but when people force others to convert to a certain religion, that is wrong. Hence, it is a private matter.

But...it's ok for Christians to attempt to prevent people from practising their religious beliefs, or lack thereof? And that IS what many Christians do.

The design of your country was made by a bunch of people who rebelled against the King and then came over here and took land from the natives. THAT made your country great???

"In a free society, immoral behavior has consequences that serve as a deterent to others." Agreed. Those consequences are administered through police and courts, etc. Not you.

Great points C4K. What/who can I trust in since I was not lucky enough to be born in the U.S. but instead was cursed to be born in the socialist/commi/dictator/gay marriage approving/antichrist country called Canada (sarcasm)? I don't have a 2nd Amendment nor a handgun...I'm doomed...

 

[Bunyon]

"Do you want some guy to have the right to break into your house using a gun, so that he could provide for his family in the aftermath of a hurricane?"---------------------------------------

Why, King James, I want a gun so I can stop him of course. The gun laws in canada have not stoppd the recent criminal crime spree in Toronto using guns. No one wants vigilanties.

 

[NaasPreacher (C4K)]

Adn the second amendment did not stop the crime sprees in New Orleans either.

I ask again, what do Christians all over the world who do not have second amendment right trust, since they can't trust in their guns?

I have never met a non-American Christian who was jealous of his brothers and sisters in Christ who have the legal right to own a gun.

 

[Pickerel]

Who says I trust in my guns? They are a tool to be used like anything else! In Christ I trust, and in no way put my trust in anything else...However to say I am somehow UnChristian for having Guns or by my willingness to use them if the need be is, "judgemental" to say the least?

Only Christ Saves!

 

[Bunyon]

"But I thought they started their own country for religious freedom? "-------------------------

King James many of the settelers who cam here were escaping religious persecution. But the revolution was not because of religious persecution. It was because of Political persecution.

"Adn the second amendment did not stop the crime sprees in New Orleans either."-----------------

C4K, it is not reported much. But I have read several incidents where home owners succesfully defended their property with guns. They did not have to use them, just the fact that they had them casued the criminal to go away in most cases.

 

[Bunyon]

"I have never met a non-American Christian who was jealous of his brothers and sisters in Christ who have the legal right to own a gun."----------------------------------------------------C4K, they can't miss what they have never had. In the British Empire the guns were taken away because the monarchy and govenment were afraid after the Communist revolution took place. It had nothing to do with crime control. But our forefathers wanted the people to be able to hold the gov accountable, even to the point of using guns if necessary. It is part of the genius of the separation of powers. The people's power is in their ability to resist tyrany, with a gun if necessary.

 

[NaasPreacher (C4K)]

Originally posted by Pickerel:
Who says I trust in my guns? They are a tool to be used like anything else! In Christ I trust, and in no way put my trust in anything else...However to say I am somehow UnChristian for having Guns or by my willingness to use them if the need be is, "judgemental" to say the least?

Only Christ Saves!

Where did anyone say you were unchristian?

 

[Pickerel]

It seemed "Implied"!

Tyler

 

[NaasPreacher (C4K)]

Can you point that out please? I have been very careful not to implicate or judge anyone.

No one has answered the passage from Matthew or Peter about Jesus' response to persecution.

I simply asked, "What are Christians around the world to trust in if they don't have second amendment rights?"

How is that judgemental?

Could someone explain how to reconcile Jesus' response to persecution to the "they'll have to pry my gun from my cold dead fingers"?

My point in Christians all over the world is that they don't feel any need to be armed. They don't see the need. If this was such an important issue that should spur Christians to action, why is it only an issue with 5% of the world's population?

 

[NaasPreacher (C4K)]

In the middle of page five "Mercury" posted some great thoughts in the "take a sword" question.

To say the least, Jesus did not tell them to "arm to the teeth." He told them that two swords was enough for all of them.

 

[Pickerel]

Look I'm not saying anything other than we live in free countries and yes it was accomplished by war and killing...Do I endorse indiscriminate killing of anyone? Of course not... You have not answered Jesus Telling us to live peacably IF POSSIBLE...

Myself I am of the viewpoint that a Christian should live a life that is pleasing to God and he should do his utmost to get along with others...however this does not entale being a "bullet stop" for madmen...!

I argue against your claim that Christians do not feel the need to be armed...See what is happening to Christians when Muslims are eradicating them, (world over). I imagine a few wish they were armed or are armed and do defend themselves as best they can...

Only Christ Saves!

 

[OCC]

Originally posted by Pickerel:
Who says I trust in my guns? They are a tool to be used like anything else! In Christ I trust, and in no way put my trust in anything else...However to say I am somehow UnChristian for having Guns or by my willingness to use them if the need be is, "judgemental" to say the least?

Only Christ Saves!

I just asked a question based on your words. You are judging me...but that's ok. I'd rather be judged then shot.

 

[NaasPreacher (C4K)]

It seems like no one will naswer my question about Jesus' response to persectuion and Peter's comments on it:

Pray for them that persecute you
Rejoice and be exceeding glad
Follow in His steps

but keep calling on me to respond.

Actuall Paul wrote Romans under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, Jesus did not say these word in Romans 12v18, but laying that aside.

Look at the next verse in Romans 8. "Dearly beloved avenge not yourselves, but rather give place to wrath, for it is written, vengeance is mine, I will repay sayeth the Lord. Therefore if thine enemy hunger, feed him (don't kill him); if he thirst give him to drink; for in so doing thou shalt heap coals of fire on his head. Be not overcome of evil, but overcome evil with good (not guns)"

Now can someone tell my how we rejoice in persecution by killing our persecutors? How we follow in Jesus steps in regard to persecution by killing our persecutors?

 

[OCC]

"But our forefathers wanted the people to be able to hold the gov accountable, even to the point of using guns if necessary. It is part of the genius of the separation of powers. The people's power is in their ability to resist tyrany, with a gun if necessary."

Thereby creating tyranny and chaos themselves right?

Where in the New Testament are we even TOLD to keep the government accountable by using guns? In fact, I think we were told to submit to the government to honour God. So what if they were persecuted politically! God says to submit to the government in ALL things except in renouncing God...and renouncing God was not in the equation of political persecution was it?

 

[OCC]

And according to what C4K said here: "Romans 8. "Dearly beloved avenge not yourselves, but rather give place to wrath, for it is written, vengeance is mine, I will repay sayeth the Lord. Therefore if thine enemy hunger, feed him (don't kill him); if he thirst give him to drink; for in so doing thou shalt heap coals of fire on his head. Be not overcome of evil, but overcome evil with good (not guns)"...

it would be wrong to kill someone who breaks into your house in order to try to provide for his family in the aftermath of a hurricane. He wouldn't have to do that if someone helped him. But why help...when yer packin heat huh?

 

[buckster75]

Originally posted by C4K:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by buckster75:
C4k you started me thinking.(not again) how much or what (if anything)should we do to resist persecution.(separate topic?)

I wish I had a more definite answer. I am confronted with the words of Christ and find them difficult to refute.

What did the first century church do?

Their burning bodies lighted the roads into Rome at one stage so that Ceasar would not have to travel by dark. </font>[/QUOTE]I was thinking about a story I heard about a preist, monk, rabbi I can't recall which. takes place during WW2. Anyway this guy was hidding jewish children from natzis. this man lied to these germany soldiers in order to protect the childern. did he resist persecution. How could he repent to God of a lie when he did it to save children. I would have a hard time being sorry for a lie like that.

You with me on the question? I guess it is 2 queations: how far to go to resist persecution and I am not even sure how to word the other. maybe: can I truely repent of a sin I thought was for a better good?

 

[OCC]

I myself would lie and protect kids. What I'm wondering is if that's ok with God. I would probably kick the crap out of someone who hurt a loved one. What I'm wondering is if that's ok with God. I would have a hard time shooting and killing someone and if I did that, I would know that it is wrong.

 

[NaasPreacher (C4K)]

When we sin, to protect or defend, are we really trusting God, or are we taking matters in to our own hands?

If we REALLY trusted God to do His perfect will in His perfect way would the second amendment really matter? Christians all over the world do a fine job of living for Christ without owning a gun. The OP asked, "Should Christians STRONGLY support the second amendment?"

My answer, just like any other part of the consitution. Because we need guns to see God's will done? No, because it is part of the government God has established for America at the present time.

 

[Pickerel]

Originally posted by King James:
I myself would lie and protect kids. What I'm wondering is if that's ok with God. I would probably kick the crap out of someone who hurt a loved one. What I'm wondering is if that's ok with God. I would have a hard time shooting and killing someone and if I did that, I would know that it is wrong.

What I am hearing here is that in no way do innocent Christian, Men, Women and children have a right to defend themselves...? You think you would have a "Hard time" shooting someone?? Good Grief, how do you think I would feel!! The very thought gives me the creeps! However if I did would I be wrong? I say no, given the right circumstances...

It's OK for a policeman to shoot somebody to protect someone, it's Ok for a soldier to shoot someone to protect someone(Cause they are under the gov't I hear)...but it's not Ok for a Christian to defend His family because he's not labeled "under the gov't"?? I ain't buyin' it, and I believe the Bible ain't either...

Only Christ Saves!