buckster75
Member
Jesus did use a whip.
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Should Christians STRONGLY support the 2ND AMENDMENT?
- Thread starter ROBERTGUWAPO
- Start date
O
OCC
Guest
What I am hearing here is that in no way do innocent Christian, Men, Women and children have a right to defend themselves...? You think you would have a "Hard time" shooting someone?? Good Grief, how do you think I would feel!!
The very thought gives me the creeps! However if I did would I be wrong? I say no, given the right circumstances...It's OK for a policeman to shoot somebody to protect someone, it's Ok for a soldier to shoot someone to protect someone(Cause they are under the gov't I hear)...but it's not Ok for a Christian to defend His family because he's not labeled "under the gov't"?? I ain't buyin' it, and I believe the Bible ain't either...
Only Christ Saves! </font>[/QUOTE]Don't buy it then. You have the right to be wrong...and to be a vigilante I guess.. The REASON there are police and soldiers is because it is THEIR job to do it. God authorized them. He didn't authorize you to be a vigilante.
Well, if it would be hard for you to do it then join the club. Some on here talk as if they look forward to the "opportunity".
O
OCC
Guest
But we don't.
buckster75
Member
that's why we need the guns.....to take to the schools.
Nowhere do the gospels state that he whipped people (though he was flogged by others -- without resisting). In fact, the gospels aren't even explicit that he whipped animals. For all we know he cracked the whip to startle the animals and cause them to scatter. Jesus did overturn tables and scatter coins. I don't see how that leads to a justification to shoot someone, though.
O
OCC
Guest
LOL
C4K,
I have not answered you because I agree with you 99percent. But you wont answer me. If a Christian in Sudan sees the crosses going up and the Christians placed upon them, and the screams of the women are echoing through the town as the gov troops rape the women, would you still place an injunction on these Christians not to use a gun to defend their family.
The Romans 8 verse is talking about not taking REVENGE. It is not telling you not to protect yourself from tyrants. You are miss using it.
King James said-"Thereby creating tyrany and caos themselves"----------------------------
Not unless you consider what our forefathers did as creating tyrany and caos. Americans would not see it that way. But you sould know that it is a last resort when the government becomes tyranical. Most Americans don't see the revolution as a bad thing -like you do. In fact, they see it as God inspired.
I have not answered you because I agree with you 99percent. But you wont answer me. If a Christian in Sudan sees the crosses going up and the Christians placed upon them, and the screams of the women are echoing through the town as the gov troops rape the women, would you still place an injunction on these Christians not to use a gun to defend their family.
The Romans 8 verse is talking about not taking REVENGE. It is not telling you not to protect yourself from tyrants. You are miss using it.
King James said-"Thereby creating tyrany and caos themselves"----------------------------
Not unless you consider what our forefathers did as creating tyrany and caos. Americans would not see it that way. But you sould know that it is a last resort when the government becomes tyranical. Most Americans don't see the revolution as a bad thing -like you do. In fact, they see it as God inspired.
NaasPreacher (C4K)
Well-Known Member
I have answered the Sudan question several times. I don't the answer to what the Christians in the Sudan should have done. I don't place any injunction, all I have done is present scripture.
All I am looking for is an answer to what Jesus and Peter said about how to respond to persecution. How do we reconcile that with the "kill them" mentality?
I only used Romans 8 because it was taken out of context in the first place by another poster to support a violent response. It does neither.
I also have never proclaimed the American Revolution as a bad thing, I also have not see Biblical evidence for a violent revolution unless God specificly directs it like He did for Isreal.
All I am looking for is an answer to what Jesus and Peter said about how to respond to persecution. How do we reconcile that with the "kill them" mentality?
I only used Romans 8 because it was taken out of context in the first place by another poster to support a violent response. It does neither.
I also have never proclaimed the American Revolution as a bad thing, I also have not see Biblical evidence for a violent revolution unless God specificly directs it like He did for Isreal.
NaasPreacher (C4K)
Well-Known Member
But it was not to protect Himself, and it was not designed to kill. It was to drive the moneychangers out of His Father's house.
OK, I guess I was trying to get a yes or no answer out of you.
I think we should turn the other cheek. I think that is what Peter and Paul tought us to do. And we should do that to the nth degree, for the sake of the mission. But when it come to someone putting a knife to my daughter's throat gov or not, I'm gonna pop a cap in em. But I'm betting things wont get that bad here in my lifetime.
The American revolution part was a response to one of our Canadian friend, King James, who thinks it was just a dirty rebellion. But I think rebellions are justified when "certain inaliable rights" are violated.
I think we should turn the other cheek. I think that is what Peter and Paul tought us to do. And we should do that to the nth degree, for the sake of the mission. But when it come to someone putting a knife to my daughter's throat gov or not, I'm gonna pop a cap in em. But I'm betting things wont get that bad here in my lifetime.
The American revolution part was a response to one of our Canadian friend, King James, who thinks it was just a dirty rebellion. But I think rebellions are justified when "certain inaliable rights" are violated.
O
OCC
Guest
When I said "creating tyranny and chaos" I meant it. Bringing slaves over to build a nation off of their backs...at the same time taking land from the natives, killing them, etc. would qualify as tyranny and chaos.
Did they do this or not?
Did they do this or not?
"Did they do this or not?"------------------------------------------------------------------------
I think the whole world and every race did this in the past. Not just white America. And I don't think the nation was bulit that way. Slaves were owened mostely by rich plantation owners. So I would say that a few plantaions were built on their backs, but that was pretty much distroyed by the civil war. From what I have learned since living out here in the west. The native american story has two sides, but you don't hear it in the media.
I think the whole world and every race did this in the past. Not just white America. And I don't think the nation was bulit that way. Slaves were owened mostely by rich plantation owners. So I would say that a few plantaions were built on their backs, but that was pretty much distroyed by the civil war. From what I have learned since living out here in the west. The native american story has two sides, but you don't hear it in the media.
O
OCC
Guest
Yeah, every race probably did do it. But America was supposed to be better...started by God Himself. Would He start it that way?
King James,
to go along with your reasoning..... God did start the nation of Israel that way, didn't He?
Let me say also, that I believe God had a good purpose behind the establishing of America. Obviously some things were handled in the wrong way by fallible humans, but that does not negate the Divine hand in America's existence.
to go along with your reasoning..... God did start the nation of Israel that way, didn't He?
Let me say also, that I believe God had a good purpose behind the establishing of America. Obviously some things were handled in the wrong way by fallible humans, but that does not negate the Divine hand in America's existence.
T
TexasSky
Guest
Okay,
I tend to be a person who believes in standing up for your rights, and I actually support the 2nd amendment - however - - -
I look to my bible and I see Christ and Peter in the Garden, and I see Christ telling Peter to put up his sword.
I see Christ telling me to love my enemies, and to love even those that hate me.
I cannot honestly say that I believe Christ condones violence by Christians.
I tend to be a person who believes in standing up for your rights, and I actually support the 2nd amendment - however - - -
I look to my bible and I see Christ and Peter in the Garden, and I see Christ telling Peter to put up his sword.
I see Christ telling me to love my enemies, and to love even those that hate me.
I cannot honestly say that I believe Christ condones violence by Christians.
Texas,
Christ and Peter in the Garden was definitely not a time to fight, as Christ was intended to go with those soldiers in order to die for the sins of all the world. I don't think that that instance is an example to all of us today of how we ought to react to an attack on our person.
There was also the fact that the last time Jesus sent out the disciples to go preach He told them to buy a sword and carry it with them.
I guess we can love our enemies, but that does not mean we are not allowed to defend our families from actual physical danger.
Christ and Peter in the Garden was definitely not a time to fight, as Christ was intended to go with those soldiers in order to die for the sins of all the world. I don't think that that instance is an example to all of us today of how we ought to react to an attack on our person.
There was also the fact that the last time Jesus sent out the disciples to go preach He told them to buy a sword and carry it with them.
I guess we can love our enemies, but that does not mean we are not allowed to defend our families from actual physical danger.
O
OCC
Guest
Bunyon...you think it "Shines"? I'm not going to argue with you but I will say I disagree.
Bapmom, we haven't even proven that God "established" America, let alone had a purpose for it. As far as I know, it was a bunch of men. We have nothing in Scripture (our only source of info from God and divine authority) telling us that He established America.
However, we do have that info that God established Israel. And because He told the Jews to go into the land and kill people doesn't mean he told the first Americans to do the same. Are you excusing the fact that they did?
Bapmom, we haven't even proven that God "established" America, let alone had a purpose for it. As far as I know, it was a bunch of men. We have nothing in Scripture (our only source of info from God and divine authority) telling us that He established America.
However, we do have that info that God established Israel. And because He told the Jews to go into the land and kill people doesn't mean he told the first Americans to do the same. Are you excusing the fact that they did?
King James,
like I said, I was merely going along with your example, not trying to prove any point of my own......
Like I DID say, things were done wrong here.....men are fallible on BOTH sides of the issue.....that doesn't mean that God did not have a purpose behind America's existence.
I said I believe that God had a good purpose for America to fulfill. It has become a melting pot of all nationalities, where missionaries have been sent out to all countries, partially because they came from all countries. The gospel has been spread around the world now, mainly through America.
like I said, I was merely going along with your example, not trying to prove any point of my own......
Like I DID say, things were done wrong here.....men are fallible on BOTH sides of the issue.....that doesn't mean that God did not have a purpose behind America's existence.
I said I believe that God had a good purpose for America to fulfill. It has become a melting pot of all nationalities, where missionaries have been sent out to all countries, partially because they came from all countries. The gospel has been spread around the world now, mainly through America.
O
OCC
Guest
I know what you DID say. And yes, many missionaries have went out from America. That doesn't mean God established it.