Should Christians Support Isreal?

[HankD]

Most dispensationalist I know get either a blank stare or refuse an answer when you mention the "parenthesis church" to them. Most only know of the so-called pre-trib rapture. The won't have to die if Jesus Christ will just get on the ball!

Personally, I don't like the phrase "parenthetical" when it comes to the church age. It is not exactly a scriptural word. There are however other words and phrases that are not exactly scriptural which we use nonetheless.

A better phrase IMO would be "mystery" when it comes to the full revelation of the Church which Christ promised to build which is a scriptural word and has the meaning of a previously unrevealed truth or doctrine.

Matthew 13

10 And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables?
11 He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.​

Ephesians 5:32 This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church.​

Colossians 1
25 Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God;
26 Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints:
27 To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:​

Revelation 1:20 The mystery of the seven stars which thou sawest in my right hand, and the seven golden candlesticks. The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches: and the seven candlesticks which thou sawest are the seven churches.​

The unrevealed doctrine being that Jew and Gentile alike would be gathered together into one body regenerated and infilled with the Holy Spirit as the result of the incarnation, death burial and resurrection of the second person of the Holy Trinity.​

IMO, There shoudn't be mockery of what certain Christians hold as to their beliefs such as the rapture. He said to love one another not to mock one another.​

While oblique (or otherwise) ad hominems are allowable amongst the debate system of the disputers of this world, we shoudn't do these things and yes, I speak to myself as I have been guilty in the past.​

Physical death for the Christian is a transition from mortal to immortal.
If it the will of God is that some some be "changed" and make that transition from mortal to immortal without passing through the grave so what?​

1 Corinthians 15
51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.​

HankD​

 

[Me4Him]

You make the invalid assumption that Israel is the Subject in verse 24.

1. to finish the transgression,
2. and to make an end of sins,
3. and to make reconciliation for iniquity,
4. and to bring in everlasting righteousness,
5. and to seal up the vision and prophecy,
6. and to anoint the most Holy.

"Spiritually" all of the above has been fulfilled for "believers",

But "Literally", it hasn't come to pass as it will when Jesus returns.

Jesus established a "Spiritual Kingdom", within you, when he came, fulfilling all of the above.

When he returns it will be the "Literal Kingdom" of the MK, fulfilling the above.

The Church is a "Spiritual kingdom", a mystery to Israel, because they were promised a "Literal Kingdom", the MK.

Until you recognize the differences between the "Spiritual/Literal" in prophecy, you won't understand much scripture, it's throughout the Bible.

Strangely the Church is always a problem for some dispensationalists. I don't understand why the body and Bride of Jesus Christ, for which HE died, is a problem.

The church is a problem for Israel, they can't find it mentioned in the OT, at least to their understanding of scripture, therefore they refuse to believe Jesus/church.

Scriptures say we must "crucify the body of sin" (flesh) if we want to be saved,

During the church period we "Spiritually" crucify the body of sin/flesh to be saved,

During the trib period, they will have to "literal crucify the body of sin" if they want to be saved, if they confess Jesus the AC will "literally kill the flesh",

Ever wonder what the church only dies "Spiritually", Israel "Literally"???

 

[OldRegular]

It appears that the Jews are not the only ones confused about what Scripture teaches!

 

[Thermodynamics]

Should Christians Support Isreal?

All I need to know on the subject is found in Genesis 12:3

"And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed."

 

[OldRegular]

All I need to know on the subject is found in Genesis 12:3

"And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed."

I will ask you the same question I have posed to others. Suppose that a true physical descendant of Abraham and a true born again believer have a dispute. Suppose the true born again believer curses the true physical descendant of Abraham. Does GOD curse the the true born again believer? By the way the true born again believer is a spiritual descendant of Abraham. [Galatians 3:29]

 

[Jedi Knight]

All I need to know on the subject is found in Genesis 12:3

"And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed."

Who is God talking to is the key....Abraham or Israel future? I believe God is addressing Abraham directly and like Paul told the jailer...You AND your household. If they believe and put their trust in God they can be blessed also. They have to respond to God personally because God has NO grandchildren.

 

[Thermodynamics]

Who is God talking to is the key....Abraham or Israel future? I believe God is addressing Abraham directly and like Paul told the jailer...You AND your household. If they believe and put their trust in God they can be blessed also. They have to respond to God personally because God has NO grandchildren.

As I read it (taken together with Genesis 12:2) God is talking to Abraham as if he were the nation of Israel (which at the time he and he alone was).

Genesis 12:2-3 "And I will make of thee a great nation, and I will bless thee, and make thy name great; and thou shalt be a blessing: And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed."

I believe this promise is still in effect. Abraham became a great nation and that nation has, in one form or another continued to exist until this very day, so I don't see why I shouldn't just take God at His word.

 

[Jedi Knight]

As I read it (taken together with Genesis 12:2) God is talking to Abraham as if he were the nation of Israel (which at the time he and he alone was).

Genesis 12:2-3 "And I will make of thee a great nation, and I will bless thee, and make thy name great; and thou shalt be a blessing: And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed."

I believe this promise is still in effect. Abraham became a great nation and that nation has, in one form or another continued to exist until this very day, so I don't see why I shouldn't just take God at His word.

I don't see why we don't take God at His word eather my brother. But surely your not saying we are blind too?:smilewinkgrin:

 

[Me4Him]

It appears that the Jews are not the only ones confused about what Scripture teaches!

Yep, you're right,

and when asked a question they can't answer they ignore it rather than trying to find the answer,

Suppose that has anything to do with their "confusion"???

Ever wonder why the church only dies "Spiritually", Israel "Literally"???

 

[LadyEagle]

Not another "Replacement Theology" thread!!! Not again!! :tonofbricks:

What Is Replacement Theology?
Replacement Theology was introduced to the Church shortly after Gentile leadership took over from Jewish leadership. What are its premises?

1. Israel (the Jewish people and the land) has been replaced by the Christian Church in the purposes of God, or, more precisely, the Church is the historic continuation of Israel to the exclusion of the former.
2. The Jewish people are now no longer a "chosen people." In fact, they are no different from any other group, such as the English, Spanish, or Africans.

Errors of replacement theology and rebuttals for those who are lurking and don't know what it is:

http://www.therefinersfire.org/replacement_theology.htm

I will always support Israel and pray for the peace of Jerusalem.

 

[OldRegular]

Ever wonder why the church only dies "Spiritually", Israel "Literally"???

I have no idea what is your point. The Church, the body and Bride of Jesus Christ, does not die spiritually. Everyone dies physically or literally.

 

[Thermodynamics]

I will ask you the same question I have posed to others. Suppose that a true physical descendant of Abraham and a true born again believer have a dispute. Suppose the true born again believer curses the true physical descendant of Abraham. Does GOD curse the the true born again believer? By the way the true born again believer is a spiritual descendant of Abraham. [Galatians 3:29]

This question does not address the issue at hand, that being the need for people and nations who seek God's favor to bless the NATION of Israel and the Jewish people as a whole. The issue of some dispute between two people is of no concern as I see it. However, if a person or nation does something that harms the Jewish people or the nation of Israel, I believe that person or nation can expect God to punish them in some way.

 

[OldRegular]

Thermodynamics answered! Well not really!

 

[Thermodynamics]

I will always support Israel and pray for the peace of Jerusalem.

I believe God will bless you for that support!

 

[Thermodynamics]

Thermodynamics answered! Well not really!

I think it was a fair answer, what are you looking for?

 

[Jedi Knight]

I have no idea what is your point. The Church, the body and Bride of Jesus Christ, does not die spiritually. Everyone dies physically or literally.

I was scratching my head as well.:smilewinkgrin:

 

[Me4Him]

As I read it (taken together with Genesis 12:2) God is talking to Abraham as if he were the nation of Israel (which at the time he and he alone was).

Genesis 12:2-3 "And I will make of thee a great nation, and I will bless thee, and make thy name great; and thou shalt be a blessing: And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed."

I believe this promise is still in effect. Abraham became a great nation and that nation has, in one form or another continued to exist until this very day, so I don't see why I shouldn't just take God at His word.

You're right Thermo:

Ro 11:1 I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid.

God swore an "Oath" to Abraham.

Ge 26:3 and I will perform the oath which I sware unto Abraham thy father;

4 And I will make thy seed to multiply as the stars of heaven, and will give unto thy seed all these countries; and in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed;

Ro 11:5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

Ro 3:1 What advantage then hath the Jew? or what profit is there of circumcision?

2 Much every way: chiefly, because that unto them were committed the oracles of God.

3 For what if some did not believe? shall their unbelief make the faith of God without effect?

4 God forbid:

Ro 3:9 What then? are we (Church) better than they? (Jews) No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin;

Ro 11:28 As concerning the gospel, they (Israel) are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes.

The church is not "Abraham's NATURAL seed", the church is "ADOPTED/GRAFFED" into the Jewish Family Tree.

Because Jews are a "Natural seed", a "REMNANT" will be saved for the "SAKE OF THE FATHER" keeping his Oath/promise to Abraham.

And I will make thy seed to multiply

Saving a remnant is what the trib is all about.

 

[Jedi Knight]

Look, your house is forsaken! 1 And I tell you, you will not see me until you say, ‘Blessed is the one who comes in the name of the Lord. Was this not fullfilled when Jesus rode in on a donkey? "Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord!"
"Blessed is the King of Israel!"Jesus found a young donkey and sat upon it, as it is written,
"Do not be afraid, O Daughter of Zion;
see, your king is coming,
seated on a donkey's colt." RAdam ........Not sure if you was implying this was the second coming.

 

[OldRegular]

Originally Posted by OldRegular
I will ask you the same question I have posed to others. Suppose that a true physical descendant of Abraham and a true born again believer have a dispute. Suppose the true born again believer curses the true physical descendant of Abraham. Does GOD curse the the true born again believer? By the way the true born again believer is a spiritual descendant of Abraham. [Galatians 3:29]

Response? Posted by Thermodynamics
This question does not address the issue at hand, that being the need for people and nations who seek God's favor to bless the NATION of Israel and the Jewish people as a whole. The issue of some dispute between two people is of no concern as I see it. However, if a person or nation does something that harms the Jewish people or the nation of Israel, I believe that person or nation can expect God to punish them in some way.

So you are saying that GOD will punish the Christian who offends an Israelite? That is unbelievable. You are carrying the dispensational error to the extreme!

Do you have any Scripture to support such nonsense. The Christian is the one for whom Jesus Christ died. The Christian is a Child of GOD, an heir and joint heir with Jesus Christ. And you tell me that GOD honors the unbelieving Israelite over HIS own Child. Again I say unbelievable and absolutely false!
__________________

 

[Jedi Knight]

So you are saying that GOD will punish the Christian who offends an Israelite? That is unbelievable. You are carrying the dispensational error to the extreme!

Do you have any Scripture to support such nonsense. The Christian is the one for whom Jesus Christ died. The Christian is a Child of GOD, an heir and joint heir with Jesus Christ. And you tell me that GOD honors the unbelieving Israelite over HIS own Child. Again I say unbelievable and absolutely false!
__________________

OldRegular is right! We are not to try to offend"anyone for that matter"but what about offending a Israelite who thinks Jesus was not the Messiah?