Should Christians Support Isreal?

[Thermodynamics]

So you are saying that GOD will punish the Christian who offends an Israelite? That is unbelievable. You are carrying the dispensational error to the extreme!

Do you have any Scripture to support such nonsense. The Christian is the one for whom Jesus Christ died. The Christian is a Child of GOD, an heir and joint heir with Jesus Christ. And you tell me that GOD honors the unbelieving Israelite over HIS own Child. Again I say unbelievable and absolutely false!

Did you read what I wrote before you posted this? I did not use the word "offends" I used the word "harms."

If a Christian does something that HARMS the Jewish People as a whole of the nation of Israel, yes, that Christian is sinning and can expect God's punishment.

The Jewish people are still God's people, Christ died for the Jewish people and God loves the Jewish people. If you would read the Bible you would see the term "My people" used throughout, even in the New Testament.

As far as Scripture that backs my position, I have already quoted it.

 

[Jedi Knight]

What about were Jesus told those who rejected Him.....You are of your father the devil?

 

[Me4Him]

So you are saying that GOD will punish the Christian who offends an Israelite? That is unbelievable. You are carrying the dispensational error to the extreme!

Do you have any Scripture to support such nonsense. The Christian is the one for whom Jesus Christ died. The Christian is a Child of GOD, an heir and joint heir with Jesus Christ. And you tell me that GOD honors the unbelieving Israelite over HIS own Child. Again I say unbelievable and absolutely false!
__________________

Ro 11:11 I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy.

Ro 11:15 For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead?

16 For if the firstfruit be holy, the lump is also holy: and if the root be holy, so are the branches.

17 And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;

18 Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.

19 Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in.

You're forgetting that Jesus was a "JEW", the "ROOT" on which the "Christian church" is "BASED",

You boast against the Jews, you boast against the "ROOT", JESUS.

Show me one Gentile who is an enemies of the Gospel but still consider "ELECT" for the Father's sake???

Ro 11:28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes.

 

[Thermodynamics]

What about were Jesus told those who rejected Him.....You are of your father the devil?

He was speaking to a specific group of people who were standing in front of Him. However, when He said that He was not speaking to the Jewish people as a whole or to the nation of Israel. He was addressing the specific Pharisees who were there and were in fact acting very much like their father the Devil.

 

[Jedi Knight]

He was speaking to a specific group of people who were standing in front of Him. However, when He said that He was not speaking to the Jewish people as a whole or to the nation of Israel. He was addressing the specific Pharisees who were there and were in fact acting very much like their father the Devil.

specific group..Pharisees? John 8:37 I know that ye are Abraham's seed; but ye seek to kill me, because my word hath no place in you. Who is the main audience? Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham?

 

[Thermodynamics]

specific group..Pharisees? John 8:37 I know that ye are Abraham's seed; but ye seek to kill me, because my word hath no place in you. Who is the main audience? Then said the Jews unto him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham?

Sorry Jedi, but I am not getting what you are trying to say.

 

[OldRegular]

Sorry Jedi, but I am not getting what you are trying to say.

You don't get it because you are blinded by the teachings that originated with Darby/Scofield just like the Jews were blinded as prophesied in Isaiah 6:9, 10 and confirmed by Jesus Christ Himself in Matthew 13:14, 15 and by the Apostle Paul in Acts 28:25-27.

You also need to understand what Jesus Christ told the Jews in Matthew 21:43. There is no place in Scripture indicating that sentence has or will be revoked except for those Jews that are saved by grace, through faith in Jesus Christ, as individuals. You might also try reading Galatians 3:29 which states: And if ye be Christ's then are ye Abraham's seed and heirs according to the promise.

To say that GOD will give carnal Israel or a carnal person calling himself a Jew priority over those who have been saved through the blood of Jesus Christ is blasphemous.

 

[OldRegular]

Did you read what I wrote before you posted this? I did not use the word "offends" I used the word "harms."

If a Christian does something that HARMS the Jewish People as a whole of the nation of Israel, yes, that Christian is sinning and can expect God's punishment.

Offends or harms; you are quibbling over semantics.

The Jewish people are still God's people, Christ died for the Jewish people and God loves the Jewish people. If you would read the Bible you would see the term "My people" used throughout, even in the New Testament.

The only people of GOD are those who have been redeemed by the blood of Jesus Christ. The Jews in Palestine or Israel still reject Jesus Christ, therefore, they cannot be a people of GOD. I repeat unbelieving Jews are not GOD's people. Believing Jews are GOD's people, and have the same status as any other believer.

As far as Scripture that backs my position, I have already quoted it.

Then you need to read some more Scripture. See my earlier post.

 

[Thermodynamics]

You don't get it because you are blinded by the teachings that originated with Darby/Scofield just like the Jews were blinded as prophesied in Isaiah 6:9, 10 and confirmed by Jesus Christ Himself in Matthew 13:14, 15 and by the Apostle Paul in Acts 28:25-27.

You also need to understand what Jesus Christ told the Jews in Matthew 21:43. There is no place in Scripture indicating that sentence has or will be revoked except for those Jews that are saved by grace, through faith in Jesus Christ, as individuals. You might also try reading Galatians 3:29 which states: And if ye be Christ's then are ye Abraham's seed and heirs according to the promise.

To say that GOD will give carnal Israel or a carnal person calling himself a Jew priority over those who have been saved through the blood of Jesus Christ is blasphemous.

Hi OldRegular, In the Bible God calls Israel "My People" over and over and over again and that was never revoked. As a Christian I have been "grafted in" as a new branch to the old tree that is Israel, but the Church does not replace Israel. To deny that the Jews are "God's People" is to deny the Word of God. Shame on you!

You can attack me and call me blasphemous all you want, but I place my trust in God's Word alone and I expect to be attacked for doing so.

Rather than attacking the Jewish people and those who support them, perhaps you should focus you energy on trying to bring the good news of the Gospel to the Jews who don't yet have it.

I will never support a theology that has been used as justification for killing countless Jews down through history, I will never turn my back on God's chosen people and I will never forget that my Saviour was Jewish!

 

[OldRegular]

Hi OldRegular, In the Bible God calls Israel "My People" over and over and over again and that was never revoked. As a Christian I have been "grafted in" as a new branch to the old tree that is Israel, but the Church does not replace Israel. To deny that the Jews are "God's People" is to deny the Word of God. Shame on you!

The unbelieving Jews were broken off the tree. The tree that you were grafted into initially represented the Church in its Old Testament form [Spiritual Israel], the believing remnant that was always present within Israel such as the 7000 that GOD told Elijah had not bowed the knee to Baal.

That tree is now the Church in its New Testament form as the Apostle Paul clearly demonstrates. The Church does not replace Israel, rather it is the continuation of Spiritual Israel of the Old Testament, the believing Remnant. Those Jews who believe, and only those Jews who believe, will be grafted into the tree.

The unbelieving Jews are not GOD's people any more than an unbelieving Muslim, Buddhist, or other heathen religion. Incidentally most Jews of today are agnostic at best.

The chosen people of GOD is the Church of Jesus Christ. The Jews as a whole rejected Jesus Christ and Jesus Christ rejected them. I quoted the verse that proves this. You are denying Scripture.

You can attack me and call me blasphemous all you want, but I place my trust in God's Word alone and I expect to be attacked for doing so.

You are picking and choosing what you want to believe.

Rather than attacking the Jewish people and those who support them, perhaps you should focus you energy on trying to bring the good news of the Gospel to the Jews who don't yet have it.

I haven't attacked the Jewish people but in the sight of GOD they are like all unbelievers as I noted above. I have not attacked people who choose to support Israel, only pointed out that they are not getting brownie points with GOD by doing so.

I will never support a theology that has been used as justification for killing countless Jews down through history.

And just what theology is that? I don't believe I have killed any Jews, for that matter I haven't killed anyone.

I will never turn my back on God's chosen people and I will never forget that my Saviour was Jewish!

I will never turn my back on God's chosen people, the Church of Jesus Christ both in its Old Testament and New Testament forms, and I will never forget that my Saviour was Jewish!

 

[Thermodynamics]

Oldregular, I think at this point we have both stated our positions and it is clear we are not going to find more common ground here.

In the interest of maintaining a positive relationship with a Brother in Christ, I am going to bow out of this debate, at least for the time being.

On thing that I do wish to make clear. I was not accusing you of being an anti-Semite or of supporting the killing of Jews. No follower of Christ would harbor such views and I do believe you are a sincere Christian.

 

[Plain Old Bill]

I support Israel even though she is a secular state at this time ,that will change.

 

[Me4Him]

The unbelieving Jews are not GOD's people any more than an unbelieving Muslim, Buddhist, or other heathen religion. Incidentally most Jews of today are agnostic at best.

"God's Oath" to Abraham was both "Spiritual" (born again) and "Literal", (natural descendants),

And it's for the "SAKE OF THE FATHER" (God) keeping his "oath", that a "Remnant" of "natural born Jews" will be saved out of the Tribulation period.

And it's why "Israel" (not all Israel) is still considered as "Elect" even though at the "present time" they are still "Enemies of the Gospel".

God never swore such an oath to Muslims, Buddist, Gentiles or any other "Race" of people.


Ro 11:28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes.

Zec 2:8 For thus saith the LORD of hosts; After the glory hath he sent me unto the nations which spoiled you: for he that toucheth you toucheth the apple of his eye.

Zec 8:3 Thus saith the LORD; I am returned unto Zion, and will dwell in the midst of Jerusalem: and Jerusalem shall be called a city of truth; and the mountain of the LORD of hosts the holy mountain. (mountain=Kingdom)

 

[John Toppass]

I find it rather unchristian the way some folks tell everyone else that they know what is the truth and all others who believe different are full of nonsense. The abusiveness of how they "debate" shows that I probably should not take them very serious and if they say the grass is green I should look outside to make sure it did not change colors.

Oh, and we as Christians should support Israel as a nation. If for no other reason, that is the way God wants it.

 

[OldRegular]

I find it rather unchristian the way some folks tell everyone else that they know what is the truth and all others who believe different are full of nonsense. The abusiveness of how they "debate" shows that I probably should not take them very serious and if they say the grass is green I should look outside to make sure it did not change colors.

Oh, and we as Christians should support Israel as a nation. If for no other reason, that is the way God wants it.

Can I assume you received a "word of knowledge" after writing the first paragraph? You sure didn't get the rationale for your second from Scripture!

 

[Jim1999]

It is ironic how some will take spurious concepts to concoct a biblical basis for supporting a secular state or country.

Cheers,

Jim