Should Christians take political sides?

[Baptist Believer]

So you, too...

There's someone else?

...think that Evangelicals should have voted for Hillary?

Trump and Clinton were not the only choices. In my opinion, both Trump and Clinton were horrible candidates. The deciding factor for me was simple competence and understanding of our nation and its ideals. Candidate Trump did not have it and was not interested in it. Candidate Clinton had it, but was not always good about upholding those ideals. I case my vote toward Candidate Clinton and a whole host of Republicans who I thought would hold her accountable. What I ended up with was a President who is quite incompetent, does not understand our nation and its ideals. Furthermore, I got a Republican majority that is more interested in trying to serve the Party than serve the nation.

 

[I Love An Atheist]

I think the religious right contributes to the Progressives writing off Christianity in general. But if you show them a different Jesus, I would say, a more biblical Jesus, you might get somewhere. I have an acquaintance who runs in Progressive circles. But he knows I'm consistently pro-life, that is, anti abortion, anti war, anti capital punishment, and in this alone he sees a huge difference between me and those he's accustomed to attacking. He goes out of his way to visit. And goes out of the way to avoid politically affiliated Christians.

What you say is what I wanted to attempt. I see most articles about Christians in leftist media making Christians look hypocritical, controlling and more hateful than loving. So I wanted to try to counter that image. I was attacked for it, though.

I stated how I was attacked, asked you if you had been similarly attacked, and asked you how you handled it. You have not had to deal with that kind of thing before, then?

 

[I Love An Atheist]

I think we can hold Christian views without tying them to politics.

That depends. I think there are subsets where your statement is true and subsets where it is false. As a generalization, it is very problematic. It is worth discussing further, though.

How do we witness to Palestinians if we support Israel stealing their land? Again, neutrality should be the norm for believers.

Again, that generalization, that neutrality should be the norm for believers, is problematic. Again, there are subsets where it is true and subsets where it is false. Again, it all depends.

The problem is that morality can't be compartmentalized from politics. I studied philosophy as well as the history of political theory. It is a basic that in philosophy, politics branches off from ethics.

You can't cut the branch off.

 

[1689Dave]

That depends. I think there are subsets where your statement is true and subsets where it is false. As a generalization, it is very problematic. It is worth discussing further, though.



Again, that generalization, that neutrality should be the norm for believers, is problematic. Again, there are subsets where it is true and subsets where it is false. Again, it all depends.

The problem is that morality can't be compartmentalized from politics. I studied philosophy as well as the history of political theory. It is a basic that in philosophy, politics branches off from ethics.

You can't cut the branch off.

I think you are answering your own question about not being able to speak with progressives. Notice my position gives open access to them.

 

[I Love An Atheist]

There's someone else?


Trump and Clinton were not the only choices. In my opinion, both Trump and Clinton were horrible candidates. The deciding factor for me was simple competence and understanding of our nation and its ideals. Candidate Trump did not have it and was not interested in it. Candidate Clinton had it, but was not always good about upholding those ideals. I case my vote toward Candidate Clinton and a whole host of Republicans who I thought would hold her accountable. What I ended up with was a President who is quite incompetent, does not understand our nation and its ideals. Furthermore, I got a Republican majority that is more interested in trying to serve the Party than serve the nation.

I didn't vote for either one, but I have come to understand that a crude nationalist may be better than a sophisticated internationalist. I am still watching Trump, though.

 

[Baptist Believer]

I didn't vote for either one, but I have come to understand that a crude nationalist may be better than a sophisticated internationalist.

That's an interesting point that may explain an unspoken divide around here.

Should a Christian be a "nationalist" or an "internationalist?"

I think a Christian should be concerned about the whole world (like God) and not just national self-interest.

What say you?

 

[church mouse guy]

I didn't vote for either one, but I have come to understand that a crude nationalist may be better than a sophisticated internationalist. I am still watching Trump, though.

I don't consider nationalism to be crude. Trump is accomplished personally but inexperienced politically, as you know. He has revived the moribund economy and rolled back some of the excesses of the leftists. His foreign policy, always a strong point with the GOP, has been very good. I watch Cuba and I notice that even the Canadians have pulled the dependents of their diplomats out of Cuba because of the health risks. Trump has pulled out some of our delegation, but I think that he should go ahead and pull out the rest. There has been some rollback of the leftist endorsement of Chavez because Maduro was pointedly told that he would be arrested if he tried to go to Peru for the summit of the OAS last week. They should have told the murderous Raul Castro that he would be arrested also. Trump has done very well on North Korea, Iran, and Syria so far.

 

[Wesley Briggman]

As a Christian you have no rights. ....

Very interesting and provocative statement with which I agree. I have taken issue with the "...right to life, liberty and pursuit of happiness" statement from the DOI many times.

 

[I Love An Atheist]

That's an interesting point that may explain an unspoken divide around here.

Should a Christian be a "nationalist" or an "internationalist?"

I think a Christian should be concerned about the whole world (like God) and not just national self-interest.

What say you?

Absolutely, God is a universal God and not a national God.

But the UN is working toward a one world religion. The EU Parliament building is deliberately constructed to look like a famous painting of the Tower of Babel. There a few issues to explore there, to explain why I can't in good conscience support the overall globalist narrative and agenda.

When I say nationalist I just mean economic nationalism and national sovereignty and patriotism. I know the Bible is clear that we are all one blood. Moses took an Ethiopian wife. His sister Miriam was opposed to it. For her opposition to Moses' marriage, she was stricken with leprosy and shut outside the city gate for a time.

It's so important for our future religious liberty as Christians to maintain our national sovereignty. America has a heritage of freedom of religion. We still have more freedom of religion than European countries do. But our freedom of religion and freedom of conscience are embattled. This is the reason for patriotism being compatible with Christianity.

Trump stands up for Christianity and freedom of religion. Maybe he only does it cynically to court the Evangelical vote. But he does it. Only God knows Trump's heart. I am skeptical, but we are not supposed to judge others' spiritual status. Although we are encouraged to know them by their fruits.

I was offended by many of Trump's comments. After a while, I realized I was offended more by the media echo chamber than by what Trump said. I felt like Trump said to all the women of America, I could grab you by the ___ if I wanted to, but I don't want to, because I only grab supermodels, and most of you are too ugly for me. And I felt like he said it thousands of times. After a while, I realized that this was neurolinguistic programming coming from the media and that Trump had never stood in front of the nation's women and said these things to us.

We will see what this man's fruits turn out to be.

 

[I Love An Atheist]

I think you are answering your own question about not being able to speak with progressives. Notice my position gives open access to them.

Huh? Care to unpack that?

 

[I Love An Atheist]

I don't think you understand me or Evangelicals. I voted for Trump and most of the people I know are Evangelicals. I do not know one among them who is a Democrat.

That said, I do not associate Jesus with political rulers. It would be like the Israelites associating YHWH with the Canaanites.

Why then the need to de-emphasize politics in your witnessing? I am confused. Do you do missionary work? Perhaps specific examples would be helpful.

 

[I Love An Atheist]

Very interesting and provocative statement with which I agree. I have taken issue with the "...right to life, liberty and pursuit of happiness" statement from the DOI many times.

But what about the rights to freedom of religion and freedom of conscience?

 

[Revmitchell]

Liberals are always accusing conservatives of being ignorant or just stupid. They cant help it they dont have anything else

 

[I Love An Atheist]

I find, that the hard part is in advocating for biblical morality. That is where people in America draw the line and resort to slander, hatred, and accusations immediately. I have no more non-Christian friends, because I refuse to "befriend" people that will resort to treating me with hate the second I bring up a stance for biblical morality.

I think people need to believe in God before they will accept His Biblical morality. You will seem like you are trying to speak for God, to people who don't believe in God, if you speak of Biblical morality too forcefully. You have every right to say how you believe in living and what you believe to be true and right. If people perceive you as crossing the line of "live and let live", they will resent it.

Of course there are a lot of insecure people who can't take it if you do not affirm their own immorality. I lost my best friend over this, and it was painful. It was not because I condemned her mother for doing phone sex work. It was only because I did not express enthusiasm for it. "Well, Melanie thought it was cool!" So Melanie remained her friend, and I didn't. That is how it goes sometimes. If that's how it has to be, then so be it.

But the very first thing that needs to happen is that people need to believe in God. After that it is delicate and they need space. You can't pull the little tender shoot up by the roots to make it grow faster. Jesus works with us through the Holy Spirit to help us go from our zone of understanding one little step at a time toward God's zone of understanding.

But I hear you about the slander, hatred and accusations. Although I haven't received those very much in the brick and mortar world. Just online. I have received that treatment not for advocating for Biblical morality but only for stating unabashedly that I am a Christian and for standing up for Christianity and the image of God and the image of Christianity. For clearing up the record when Christianity is slandered and lied about. That is what got me attacked.

I am married to an atheist, but we have special instructions in the Bible to cover that situation. I am instructed by scripture not to preach to him, but to be an example to him, so that he may be convinced God's love is real.

 

[I Love An Atheist]

I don't consider nationalism to be crude.

Neither do I. I just consider our nationalist in chief to be crude, comparatively.

Let me put it this way. With Obama, I often liked what he said, better than I liked what he did. With Trump, I often like what he does, better than I like what he says

 

[Yeshua1]

This is good, but you alienate those you should be trying to reach upholding worldly political unions in place of Christ. I

We shroud still support that which is biblical, as Christians!

 

[I Love An Atheist]

Liberals are always accusing conservatives of being ignorant or just stupid. They cant help it they dont have anything else

Ignorant people are everywhere and are in both parties and neither party. But what's worse than ignorance is education in false things that are difficult to unlearn.

 

[Yeshua1]

Ignorant people are everywhere and are in both parties and neither party. But what's worse than ignorance is education in false things that are difficult to unlearn.

Christians must grow spines, and be willing to confront things such as same sex marriages, abortions, false religions etc!

 

[Revmitchell]

Ignorant people are everywhere and are in both parties and neither party. But what's worse than ignorance is education in false things that are difficult to unlearn.

Ok well that misses the point of my post.

 

[I Love An Atheist]

Christians must grow spines, and be willing to confront things such as same sex marriages, abortions, false religions etc!

I can check one of those boxes (the last one). I don't think we can discuss the first two things here?

Edited to say I am with you in terms of religious belief but not necessarily in terms of implied political activism. I don't think I can say more. I just didn't want to be misunderstood.