Should People Ask Jesus Christ Into Their Lives???

[AustinC]

nope, just because you use the debate tactic of accusing me of arguing around it prior to my response doest negate my response as you wish.

you pointed out that salvation is only by the grace of God and on that we agree. Simply adding, after that, that it would be a work and contrary to grace is only a claim with no evidence.

Rev, you show me no biblical evidence to go against what I have shared.
Confession always comes after salvation (God graciously making a person alive, even when they were dead - Ephesians 2:1-9). It is never an action that causes God to save somebody.

Therefore, since confession comes after salvation, it is an effect of salvation and is not a work.
However, if you demand confession come first...as a necessary requirement for salvation...then you have removed grace as the means of salvation and replaced it with a legal work of the law.

 

[37818]

Ok, you quote Paul multiple times, so did Paul contradict himself or are you just taking verses out of context? Hmmm....I know the answer to that one...

Well, you know what you believe. And you seem to have no correct understanding about what I believe or why.
Do you know the difference between from a context and out of context?

 

[37818]

there is nothing here that proves confessing is a work. I have no idea why you thing it does. Works in scripture is a reference to ot law

So believer's baptism is not a work?

 

[Reformed1689]

Rev, you show me no biblical evidence to go against what I have shared.
Confession always comes after salvation (God graciously making a person alive, even when they were dead - Ephesians 2:1-9). It is never an action that causes God to save somebody.

Therefore, since confession comes after salvation, it is an effect of salvation and is not a work.
However, if you demand confession come first...as a necessary requirement for salvation...then you have removed grace as the means of salvation and replaced it with a legal work of the law.

Just to clarify, you are of the position though that all saved individuals will confess Christ immediately though, it is not a process over time?

 

[Reformed1689]

Well, you know what you believe. And you seem to have no correct understanding about what I believe or why.
Do you know the difference between from a context and out of context?

So let me get some clarification on what you believe. Will someone who is saved immediately confess or could it be days, months or years later?

 

[37818]

So let me get some clarification on what you believe. Will someone who is saved immediately confess or could it be days, months or years later?

Yeah, after one saved, why not? It also not wrong to confess and believe as prescribed in Romans 10:9, to obtain salvation. Only that such a confession is not a prerequisite. And personally see confession with the mouth, prayer and believer's baptism as works of the faith.

 

[AVL1984]

Would you folks kindly stay on the subject or start your own threads on works, Calvinism, etc.? Seems like some people here get away with hijacking other people's threads....

 

[AustinC]

Would you folks kindly stay on the subject or start your own threads on works, Calvinism, etc.? Seems like some people here get away with hijacking other people's threads....

I think it's actually on topic.
The question of "should people ask Jesus into their heart" begs the question of when a person is saved. Is it before or after the asking? If one says it's before then it's an effect of salvation. If one says salvation is after the asking, then the act of asking becomes a human work that is not ny grace.

For those who truly have faith in their prayer, I would say their prayer is an effect of God's having saved them. For those who pray and there is no change in actions or faith, I suggest the person was not saved and the prayer was an attempt to cause God to act and thus attempt to be saved by their own action.

 

[Reformed1689]

Yeah, after one saved, why not? It also not wrong to confess and believe as prescribed in Romans 10:9, to obtain salvation. Only that such a confession is not a prerequisite. And personally see confession with the mouth, prayer and believer's baptism as works of the faith.

I see them as happening simultaneously so I think, overall in principle, we actually agree here.

 

[37818]

I see them as happening simultaneously so I think, overall in principle, we actually agree here.

Yes. I believe you have been very good at presenting that type of understanding.
For me, personally, that understanding does not work.

 

[Revmitchell]

So believer's baptism is not a work?

Baptism us not a requirement for salvation but if it were it would not be a work. The response God requires from the gospel offer cannot be a work. If God requires belief, repentance, confession or whatever those are not works.

When we are handed a gift and we make the effort to reach out and receive it do we also claim that we are partially responsible for giving ourselves the gift? Of course not. In the same way our response to the gospel offer is not part of the justification for our salvation. Because God designed it that way He remains soveriegn.


Arguments stating that it effects Gods sovereignty or its a work are bad and therefore not legitimate arguments. They arent because if God set it up that way then it negates those claims.

The only legitimate argument is “did God set it up that way?” Period

 

[37818]

Baptism us not a requirement for salvation but if it were it would not be a work.

That's what the Church of Christ churches believe. They broke from Baptist. And Landmark Baptist were also a result.
The Landmark Controversy: A Study in Baptist History and Polity | Maranatha Baptist Seminary

 

[Silverhair]

That is not what we are talking about.

Oh but it is, you just do not want to accept it. If God expects us to respond to the invitation before we are saved, then who are you to say how or with what words that response is made. Some may shout some may whimper but God will hear them all and the angels will sing.

 

[Revmitchell]

Rev, you show me no biblical evidence to go against what I have shared.
Confession always comes after salvation (God graciously making a person alive, even when they were dead - Ephesians 2:1-9). It is never an action that causes God to save somebody.

Therefore, since confession comes after salvation, it is an effect of salvation and is not a work.
However, if you demand confession come first...as a necessary requirement for salvation...then you have removed grace as the means of salvation and replaced it with a legal work of the law.

Romans 10:9-10

 

[Revmitchell]

That's what the Church of Christ churches believe. They broke from Baptist. And Landmark Baptist were also a result.
The Landmark Controversy: A Study in Baptist History and Polity | Maranatha Baptist Seminary

I dont care what they believe its not relevant and not part of my understanding of scripture. Your problem is your stuck on what is a work. Its the wrong focus.

 

[Silverhair]

That's not how this works. We are told in Scripture how salvation works and what is required.

Right that would be the grace of God by/through faith. So if scripture says that why do you not accept it?

Eph 1:13 In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise,

 

[Revmitchell]

Notice that passage says nothing about asking Jesus into your heart.
jock.

So? Does it have to say those exact words? Why? Do you even know what it means when someone asks Jesus into their heart? Based on all the talk im not sure many around here fo?

 

[Silverhair]

Rev, you show me no biblical evidence to go against what I have shared.
Confession always comes after salvation (God graciously making a person alive, even when they were dead - Ephesians 2:1-9). It is never an action that causes God to save somebody.

Therefore, since confession comes after salvation, it is an effect of salvation and is not a work.
However, if you demand confession come first...as a necessary requirement for salvation...then you have removed grace as the means of salvation and replaced it with a legal work of the law.

Rom 10:13 For "WHOEVER CALLS ON THE NAME OF THE LORD SHALL BE SAVED."
Rom 10:14 How then shall they call on Him in whom they have not believed?
And how shall they believe in Him of whom they have not heard?
And how shall they hear without a preacher?

Notice that you need a preacher to preach so people hear and hearing believe and believing they call on the Lord for salvation. Austin you always get Eph 2:8 wrong. " For by grace you have been saved through faith" and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God,. Salvation is not of ourselves it is a gift from God because of our faith.

 

[Silverhair]

I think it's actually on topic.
The question of "should people ask Jesus into their heart" begs the question of when a person is saved. Is it before or after the asking? If one says it's before then it's an effect of salvation. If one says salvation is after the asking, then the act of asking becomes a human work that is not ny grace.

For those who truly have faith in their prayer, I would say their prayer is an effect of God's having saved them. For those who pray and there is no change in actions or faith, I suggest the person was not saved and the prayer was an attempt to cause God to act and thus attempt to be saved by their own action.

So Austin you disagree with scripture.
Rom 10:9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.
Eph 1:13 In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise,

 

[Reformed1689]

Right that would be the grace of God by/through faith. So if scripture says that why do you not accept it?

Eph 1:13 In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise,

Um, I do accept that...