Should People Ask Jesus Christ Into Their Lives???

[37818]

Your problem is your stuck on what is a work. Its the wrong focus.

We disagree on this matter. What are works are works and would not change at the whim to make one's theology work. The only work (verb) that the word of God says is not a work is "believes" in Romans 4:5, ". . . to him that worketh not, but believeth . . . ."

 

[Silverhair]

Um, I do accept that...

Really that is not what calvinism puts forward, so are you now turning away from calvinism?

 

[Reformed1689]

Really that is not what calvinism puts forward, so are you now turning away from calvinism?

Who says Calvinism does not assert free will? Calvin himself believed in free will.

 

[Silverhair]

Who says Calvinism does not assert free will? Calvin himself believed in free will.

So now your agreeing that Man has a free will and can choose to trust in Christ Jesus for their salvation. Glad to see that.

 

[Reformed1689]

So now your agreeing that Man has a free will and can choose to trust in Christ Jesus for their salvation. Glad to see that.

I said. I believe in free will. I also said Calvin believed in free will. I did not say I believed in your crazy definition of freewill that has no basis in reality. That definition being that anyone can choose anything without any type of influence from their desires. That be that there is an equal choice between sin and Christ with no outside influence. So that definition of free will I reject. I do accept that everyone is free to choose what they desire. But Scripture is clear. Nobody desires God.

 

[Silverhair]

I said. I believe in free will. I also said Calvin believed in free will. I did not say I believed in your crazy definition of freewill that has no basis in reality. That definition being that anyone can choose anything without any type of influence from their desires. That be that there is an equal choice between sin and Christ with no outside influence. So that definition of free will I reject. I do accept that everyone is free to choose what they desire. But Scripture is clear. Nobody desires God.

A free will that only has one option is not a free will. You call my idea a crazy one but how can that be since the bible agrees with me that man can make real free will choices.

Eze 18:30 "Repent, and turn from all your transgressions, so that iniquity will not be your
Amo 5:4 For thus says the LORD to the house of Israel: "Seek Me and live;
Pro 3:5 Trust in the LORD with all your heart, And lean not on your own understanding;
1Ti 4:10 For to this end we both labor and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Savior of all men, especially of those who believe.

Who say man has no influence upon what they decide? Rom 1:18-21 shows that man has creation. Man can see God in creation or man can see evolution but either way man has a choice.

What about the gospel message do you not think that can have a influence on man Paul did.

Rom_1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ, for it is the power of God to salvation for everyone who believes, for the Jew first and also for the Greek.
1Th_1:5 For our gospel did not come to you in word only, but also in power, and in the Holy Spirit

You hang your view that no one desires God on a Midrash. We would call it hyperbole. But you refuse to see that God reaches out to mankind and mankind responds and seeks God. That is unless you think that God is being disingenuous?

 

[Reformed1689]

A free will that only has one option is not a free will. You call my idea a crazy one but how can that be since the bible agrees with me that man can make real free will choices.

Eze 18:30 "Repent, and turn from all your transgressions, so that iniquity will not be your
Amo 5:4 For thus says the LORD to the house of Israel: "Seek Me and live;
Pro 3:5 Trust in the LORD with all your heart, And lean not on your own understanding;
1Ti 4:10 For to this end we both labor and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Savior of all men, especially of those who believe.

Who say man has no influence upon what they decide? Rom 1:18-21 shows that man has creation. Man can see God in creation or man can see evolution but either way man has a choice.

What about the gospel message do you not think that can have a influence on man Paul did.

Rom_1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ, for it is the power of God to salvation for everyone who believes, for the Jew first and also for the Greek.
1Th_1:5 For our gospel did not come to you in word only, but also in power, and in the Holy Spirit

You hang your view that no one desires God on a Midrash. We would call it hyperbole. But you refuse to see that God reaches out to mankind and mankind responds and seeks God. That is unless you think that God is being disingenuous?

It relies on the clear teaching that nobody seeks God. The Bible does not dispute this. Natural man does not seek God. God changes the desire of the natural man.

 

[Reformed1689]

A free will that only has one option is not a free will. You call my idea a crazy one but how can that be since the bible agrees with me that man can make real free will choices

Strawman argument. I did not say there is only one option did I? No. Man is free to choose his desire. The question is what is his desire? You give me the choice between pizza and brussel sprouts guess what I am going to choose EVERY time...

 

[AustinC]

A free will that only has one option is not a free will. You call my idea a crazy one but how can that be since the bible agrees with me that man can make real free will choices.

Eze 18:30 "Repent, and turn from all your transgressions, so that iniquity will not be your
Amo 5:4 For thus says the LORD to the house of Israel: "Seek Me and live;
Pro 3:5 Trust in the LORD with all your heart, And lean not on your own understanding;
1Ti 4:10 For to this end we both labor and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Savior of all men, especially of those who believe.

Who say man has no influence upon what they decide? Rom 1:18-21 shows that man has creation. Man can see God in creation or man can see evolution but either way man has a choice.

What about the gospel message do you not think that can have a influence on man Paul did.

Rom_1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ, for it is the power of God to salvation for everyone who believes, for the Jew first and also for the Greek.
1Th_1:5 For our gospel did not come to you in word only, but also in power, and in the Holy Spirit

You hang your view that no one desires God on a Midrash. We would call it hyperbole. But you refuse to see that God reaches out to mankind and mankind responds and seeks God. That is unless you think that God is being disingenuous?

Understand that every verse you share is written to the chosen people of God. You seem to openly ignore God's sovereign election of his people and instead fall upon a mythical free will.

 

[Silverhair]

It relies on the clear teaching that nobody seeks God. The Bible does not dispute this. Natural man does not seek God. God changes the desire of the natural man.

God gives man the information so that man can change their desire.

 

[Jerome]

Just a sample from Puritan, etc. exhorters:

John Flavel, 1689
"there is a plain, present, absolute necessity lying upon every one of you to open your Hearts to Christ, and that without delay. Necessity goes before the face of Christ to open the way for him into the Heart; thou must have him, or be lost for ever"

Joseph Alleine, 1674
"Question, But how shall we receive him? I shall shew you whither and how.
First. Whither you shall receive him. receive him into your hearts"

Bartholomew Ashwood, 1681
"labour after an Interest in this Love of Christ, that brings Salvation: Put away the Evil of thy doings, hearken to Christ's counsel, receive him into thy Heart by Faith; obey his Voice, take him to be thy Lord and God, and thou shalt possess his love too, Psal. 45.10"

Hugh Binning, 1670
"by receiving the offer of the Gospel cordially and affectionatly, brings in Christ offered into his house, and then salvation comes with him. Therefore, believing is receiving, John. 1. the very opening of the heart, to let in an offered Saviour"

Edward Chetwynd, 1632
"that thou also rejoyce as did Zacheus to receive thy Saviour: yea that already thou hast received him into thine heart, by faith"

 

[Silverhair]

Strawman argument. I did not say there is only one option did I? No. Man is free to choose his desire. The question is what is his desire? You give me the choice between pizza and brussel sprouts guess what I am going to choose EVERY time...

If you call that a strawman argument then that would make all of calvinism a strawman argument.

 

[Silverhair]

Understand that every verse you share is written to the chosen people of God. You seem to openly ignore God's sovereign election of his people and instead fall upon a mythical free will.

And notice that even those "chosen" people of God still have to choose to follow God. The fact you can not see that says a great deal about you. You are blinded by the theology that you follow.

 

[Silverhair]

Just a sample from Puritan, etc. exhorters:

John Flavel, 1689
"there is a plain, present, absolute necessity lying upon every one of you to open your Hearts to Christ, and that without delay. Necessity goes before the face of Christ to open the way for him into the Heart; thou must have him, or be lost for ever"

Joseph Alleine, 1674
"Question, But how shall we receive him? I shall shew you whither and how.
First. Whither you shall receive him. receive him into your hearts"

Bartholomew Ashwood, 1681
"labour after an Interest in this Love of Christ, that brings Salvation: Put away the Evil of thy doings, hearken to Christ's counsel, receive him into thy Heart by Faith; obey his Voice, take him to be thy Lord and God, and thou shalt possess his love too, Psal. 45.10"

Hugh Binning, 1670
"by receiving the offer of the Gospel cordially and affectionatly, brings in Christ offered into his house, and then salvation comes with him. Therefore, believing is receiving, John. 1. the very opening of the heart, to let in an offered Saviour"

Edward Chetwynd, 1632
"that thou also rejoyce as did Zacheus to receive thy Saviour: yea that already thou hast received him into thine heart, by faith"

Amazing how the old calvinists could see that man had to choose and yet the modern ones miss it.

 

[Jerome]

As I said, seems it's a certain sort of Calvinist who recoils at 'opening one's heart to Christ'.

 

[Silverhair]

As I said, seems it's a certain sort of Calvinist who recoils at 'opening one's heart to Christ'.

Oh I agree, some will fight tooth and nail to deny what the bible says about trusting in Christ Jesus.

 

[Dr. Bob]

Like the old saints who believed GOD was in charge of salvation, not MAN, I leave the regening of man's sinful nature to the holy Spirit of God. I can't do it. Man can't do it. I can't tell WHO God is changing, so I obey the mandate to preach the Gospel to everyone. I preach for them to repent to God and believe the Gospel of His grace for salvation. Just like these old preachers.

I think the unwitting (I pray, not intentional lying) comments about those who believe in God's sovereign grace are not interested in preaching repentance and faith. That IS our message and theme of our preaching. That some here believe man somehow good enough or capable innately so that he CAN repent and believe without first the regening of their sin nature, changing of their heart of stone, is a theological debate. But we ALL believe in preaching that man repent and believe.

Let's not think either side - the sovereign holy God side or the sovereign sinful man side - has a different message other than repentance and faith alone. The "order" of events pale compared to the universal need to proclaim to everyone repent and believe the Gospel

 

[Silverhair]

Like the old saints who believed GOD was in charge of salvation, not MAN, I leave the regening of man's sinful nature to the holy Spirit of God. I can't do it. Man can't do it. I can't tell WHO God is changing, so I obey the mandate to preach the Gospel to everyone. I preach for them to repent to God and believe the Gospel of His grace for salvation. Just like these old preachers.

I think the unwitting (I pray, not intentional lying) comments about those who believe in God's sovereign grace are not interested in preaching repentance and faith. That IS our message and theme of our preaching. That some here believe man somehow good enough or capable innately so that he CAN repent and believe without first the regening of their sin nature, changing of their heart of stone, is a theological debate. But we ALL believe in preaching that man repent and believe.

Let's not think either side - the sovereign holy God side or the sovereign sinful man side - has a different message other than repentance and faith alone. The "order" of events pale compared to the universal need to proclaim to everyone repent and believe the Gospel

I can agree with most of your comments up to a point. where you really fail is when you say "the sovereign sinful man side". That is a mischaracterization of those you disagree with. Man is not sovereign God is. What I see in calvinism is that you want to restrict the sovereignty of God to your narrow view.
Since God in His sovereignty wants to allow man to make real choices about their salvation through faith in Christ Jesus please explain to us all how that 1] diminishes the sovereignty of God & 2] how does that make man sovereign over his salvation.

You seem to have discounted the work of the Holy Spirit in convicting man. Why calvinists continue to this I do not understand.

Your last sentence does not seem to fit with your theology. If as calvinims says all the elect are already pick out and guaranteed to be saved and those that were not pick out have no chance of being saved then why do calvinist preach? For that matter why did Christ Jesus have to go to the cross? I know what the bible says but, calvinism makes those things moot.

 

[Dr. Bob]

If as calvinims says all the elect are already pick out and guaranteed to be saved and those that were not pick out have no chance of being saved then why do calvinist preach? For that matter why did Christ Jesus have to go to the cross? I know what the bible says but, calvinism makes those things moot.

God elects men. Trust ALL believe that.

God elects means. Since we do not know WHO God is regenerating (like knowing the wind), we proclaim repentance and faith to all. God commands it. Trust you can understand doing something because God told us to do it!

Why did Jesus die on the cross? I am saddened that anyone on BB claiming Christ as Savior would flippantly ask such an inane question. That is disappointing. You may not like the Calvinist emphasis on God regenerating man thru His holy Spirt, but that is uncalled for. You cannot be that ignorant.

 

[Reformed1689]

You seem to have discounted the work of the Holy Spirit in convicting man. Why calvinists continue to this I do not understand.

Actually Calvinism emphasizes it if anything.