Should some beats be avoided?

[Aaron]

You made the claim that reggae came from Rasta worship services. It is therefore up to you to back that claim up.

She did, you just refuse to look at her evidence.

 

[Aaron]

When we shut up, we will be able to hear that still small voice saying..."You there.. I love you... I love you this much...."

When we put this stupid, stupid argument in this perspective, our attitudes change...
Or they should.. if they don't, something is wrong!!!

I see in my spiritual imagination all of us arguing at the foot of the cross over crazy things.. .If we would just look up with our spiritual eye, we will see Christ dying for us... If we really pay attention, we will notice that some of His precious blood has dropped on us.. but we keep on arguing... while our Lord dies"
Sorta like the soldiers that gambled for his clothes... we ignore our Lord.
Jesus is all that matters.. and should be all that is at the center of our worship...
Can everyone say "amen" to that?

I certainly hope so... if you agree with me.. just post "Praise God, I love Jesus"

NOW THAT IS WORSHIP!!!

Hmmm. This same Christ said that true worshippers MUST worship the Father in spirit and in truth. In your vision you don't see false worshippers?

 

[Aaron]

Probably so.

But, my theory is, if it troubles you, don't listen to it. But don't down those who do.

And don't allow those who do, force it in the church door and trouble those who don't.

 

[SaggyWoman]

And don't allow those who do, force it in the church door and trouble those who don't.

There are churches who think like you. Go there.

 

[Aaron]

There are churches who think like you. Go there.

I'm glad you said this. CCM is more about self-will than the edification of all.

 

[SaggyWoman]

I'm glad you said this. CCM is more about self-will than the edification of all.

I didn't say this about CCM. I said this about any style of music.

 

[Eric B]

OK...so, we say, "the reggae beat is associated with A, B, and C...thus it is inherently evil."

WOuldn't the same be true for instruments? Any musical instrument that has ever been used in a manner less than worshipful is thus disqualified.

And now.............you've all become Church of Christ.

Whoops! You're vocal instrument has been bad, too.

Looks like we all shut up. :laugh:

Now; you've become piney.com! (Probaby some hyper Campbellist or hyper Primitive Baptist site).

(an illustration of the argument's crux carried out to its logical end)

Yes, they say ALL music alltogether is pagan! They use the same line of argumentation to discredit the OT use of music, amd the whole point is that EVERYONE out there is wrong! It's called "oneupmanship".

The Bible tells us to make melody to the Lord, not pound drums for the heathen, which is what I mean about beat. I understand that all songs are metered according to beats, but when the song has the jungle beat or the sensual, where you may want to start snapping your fingers, it is an appeal to the flesh and simply is not for worship of the Lord. Drums are meant for the animal nature and hinder the spiritual nature, whereas a proper melody offers no hindrance and frees the spirit of the believer to properly worship the Lord.

Eph 5:19-20 Speaking to yourselves in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody in your heart to the Lord; 20 Giving thanks always for all things unto God and the Father in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ;

Nowhere in the Bible does the Lord condone drums for divine worship, Psalm 150 tells you the type of instruments that can be used to glorify the Lord:

Ps 150:1 Praise ye the LORD. Praise God in his sanctuary: praise him in the firmament of his power. 2 Praise him for his mighty acts: praise him according to his excellent greatness. 3 Praise him with the sound of the trumpet: praise him with the psaltery and harp. 4 Praise him with the timbrel and dance: praise him with stringed instruments and organs. 5 Praise him upon the loud cymbals: praise him upon the high sounding cymbals. 6 Let every thing that hath breath praise the LORD. Praise ye the LORD.

A church will either have Christians in it or drums in it, if you bring in the Christians the drums will leave; and if you bring in the drums the Christians will leave, being scattered by the Lord. It is a repeatable process that I have watched happen several times, with no church turning back yet; I hope you may be the first.

Drums and "jungle beat". Of course; that's really all it is about.
Scribe, it's not you that would be playing a "race" card"; that card is already implicit in this teaching! They only scream "Race card! No fair" when someone points it out and nails it for what it is. Here is the teaching in its purest, original, most undisguised form: www.touchet1611.org/paulsonmusic.com

Also worthy of note, for those who argue about beats "moving the flesh", while traditional music "moves the spirit"; this guy says that that is wrong too, and he has a point! He warns that people having their "spirits lifted up" by the supposedly "good" music, are sinning just as much as the others and still opening themselves up to bad spiritual influences; as lifting one's spirit is the job of the Holy Spirit alone.

And even with those instruments mentioned in the Psalms, they are still not our modern "strings", or pipe organs, and certainly not pianos. The latter two were once condemned by the Church as "worldly", "demonic" and "sensual" as well, BTW. Everybody simply denounces whatever they are not used to as bad, and then proceeds to speak for God on it. But then even this changes over the centuries.
Again, all styles were once used by the pagan background of the culture they arose out of. The Europeans were not God's chosen people, but were just as "heathen" as everyone else, even though their music may have been less rhythmic. Rhythm is not the only thing that may feed "the flesh"; and the whole concept of the "flesh" is not just physical! The term "jungle music" would be analogous to calling the plain styles "cave music". (But it was "jungle" that was more popular as a derisive term for a people and their culture).

And it seems you all are acknowledging now that there was a lot of rhythm in OT music, with the discussion of the tamborine. As for it not being used in the Temple; nobody said that fun rhythms were appropriate for ALL occasions, but they all acknowledged that there is a place for it. What we are arguing against is the opposite: that they are NEVER appropriate; which is the basic argument of "beats=the flesh". If that was true, then the tamborine and other similar instruments would not have been allowed AT ALL. Or they would have only been used in the golden calf instrument (which people would LOVE to have be the case), but that we do not see at all.

People should not allow themselves to get sucked into a teaching just because it SOUNDS like it is upholding "Biblical hiloness" . People out there have agendas and bend teachings to fit, reading them into the Bible, so you have to check ALL teachings to see whether they are truly Biblical.

http://members.aol.com/etb700/ccm.html

 

[Ivon Denosovich]

:sigh: I wish I were angry. Angry people have all the fun. Even these jokes by comparison are lame compared to the fun of anger:

Q: What do you get if Bach falls off a horse, but has the courage to get on again and continue riding?
A: Bach in the saddle again.

Q: Why don't they know where Mozart is buried?
A: Because he's Haydn!

Q: What do you get if Bach dies and is reincarnated as twins?
A: A pair of Re-bachs.

What's the difference between an oboe and an onion?
No one cries when you chop up an oboe.

As an aside, I deplore most CCM. I don't think it's "bad" I just don't like it.

But I listen to Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band at least every week... so I take it I'm addicted?

 

[Sopranette]

I think a lot of churches are trying to make themselves more appealing to a younger crowd by mimicing some of the things they know interest younger people. One of the main things would be music, especially rock. I know from my own experience it was a lot more fun to prentend to be Donna Summer, or Pat Benetar, rather than learn anything by Martin Luther or Fanny Crosby. But that was then, and this is now. I would hate for these older hymns to just be forgotten and lost now. Shouldn't church be a refuge from the world? And what happens when these people grow older, and see there really isn't much difference from their own daily lives, and church? Would they even bother to attend, since much of what they do in church is exactly what they do at home anyway.

love,

Sopranette

 

[Mike McK]

The post in question listed a number of popular music styles from around the turn of the century and shortly thereafter, and the question was, could anyone find a Gospel song that was written and published at the time that aforementioned styles were popular. Here's the original thread:

http://www.baptistboard.com/archive/index.php/t-16976.html

Here's the link to that thread.

http://www.baptistboard.com/showthread.php?t=5269

You'll find that my threat was to delete any more irrelevant posts. There was no attempt to ban Mike (a.k.a. Smoke Eater) for this.

To set the record straight, I'm no longer a mod because I voluntarily stepped down.

Now, the next thing you know, Mike will accuse me of making up the word fairytale and using it to describe a cross section of his posts. :type:

No, unlike "razzmatazz", "fairytale" is a real word.

Interesting that, in order to show that you didn't make up the word, you posted a link to the post in which you made up the word.

 

[Mike McK]

She did, you just refuse to look at her evidence.

Her "evidence" was the Wikipedia entry for "reggae". I did look at it and it does not support her claim.

 

[Mike McK]

Funny, when I Google the word, I get over 1.1 million hits.

Google the term with jazz and you'll get 180,000 results. When I did it, the very first item was an Amazon.com link to a jazz collection called "Razzmatazz Jazz."

And this is all because I made up the word? D@#! I'm good!

I didn't say that "razzmatazz" isn't a word or a description. I'm saying that, as a genre of music, you made it up.

 

[Mike McK]

Speaking of bad beats, some of that southern gospel sounds so much like country, it makes me want to drink.

We should also add that the majority of SG artists use the very same session musicians that those evil worldly artists use.

 

[annsni]

A church will either have Christians in it or drums in it, if you bring in the Christians the drums will leave; and if you bring in the drums the Christians will leave, being scattered by the Lord. It is a repeatable process that I have watched happen several times, with no church turning back yet; I hope you may be the first.

Jer 10:21 For the pastors are become brutish, and have not sought the LORD: therefore they shall not prosper, and all their flocks shall be scattered.

BGTF

So you're saying that my church with drums is a church without Christians. That's stepping into some big shoes - I think God is the One who will judge whether we're saved or not. My church has fruit. Big fruit. If you'd like to come to see, we'd welcome you. We're not catering to the unsaved in our worship - we're catering to the One who created us. Our worship - ALL that we do from cleaning toilets (oh no - we have pretty bathrooms that appeal to the senses - need to fix that...) to teaching Sunday School with the children, to the youth group and challenging the kids to live boldly for the Lord to the worship on Sunday morning that is focused on GOD and not us, to the preaching of the Word FROM the Word.

I find it very pharacetical (however you'd spell that word) to say that because YOU feel drums are wrong (and God never once said that), that they're wrong across the board and those who DO use them are not Christians. VERY sad - and showing some pretty bad fruit.

 

[PastorSBC1303]

Psalm 150 tells you the type of instruments that can be used to glorify the Lord:

Ps 150:1 Praise ye the LORD. Praise God in his sanctuary: praise him in the firmament of his power. 2 Praise him for his mighty acts: praise him according to his excellent greatness. 3 Praise him with the sound of the trumpet: praise him with the psaltery and harp. 4 Praise him with the timbrel and dance: praise him with stringed instruments and organs. 5 Praise him upon the loud cymbals: praise him upon the high sounding cymbals. 6 Let every thing that hath breath praise the LORD. Praise ye the LORD.

If Ps. 150 is the list of acceptable instruments in worship, then you better remove the organ and piano

 

[SaggyWoman]

I think a lot of churches are trying to make themselves more appealing to a younger crowd by mimicing some of the things they know interest younger people. One of the main things would be music, especially rock. I would hate for these older hymns to just be forgotten and lost now. Shouldn't church be a refuge from the world? And what happens when these people grow older, and see there really isn't much difference from their own daily lives, and church? Would they even bother to attend, since much of what they do in church is exactly what they do at home anyway.

A.) So, it is okay just to appeal to the older crowd? So what happens when those older people get really old and cannot attend church any more? Who is at church?

B.) I personally like old hymns, except when we sing them every Sunday. I do like a lot of them that have been set to new music, not that the new music is all that, but it helps me listen to the words again.

C.) Why can't we carry church home with us? I worship at church. I worship at home. It wouldn't keep me from church just because my home life is what it ought to be.

 

[Sopranette]

I'm speaking again from my own experiences. When I began attending church again, I was not saved. If I had seen that church was exactly what was waiting for me at home, if there hadn't been anything new or good worth learning, I would have not bothered to continue attending. I already know a lot of Rock music.

love,

Sopranette

 

[PastorSBC1303]

One's experience and/or preferences does not make the biblical standard for anything.

 

[annsni]

Also, music does not define church - and whether it's a good church or a bad church. You might be able to get the same music that's played at church at home, but does that make it church? Do you have the Lord's Supper at home? Do you listen to good teaching? Do you fellowship with other believers in your home? If you do all of these things then, yes, you have church at home. Otherwise, following your thinking, you'd not be able to play a hymn at home because that's only at church.

Right now, my DH is working on the bathroom and listening to his iPod on some speakers. We've been listening to some different groups and many of the songs are worship songs that he's used at church or is planning to introduce. Some of the songs are great Christian songs but not ones we'd use for worship (because they're not TO God - they're about God).

Oh - and neither one of us are being enticed to have sex right now. Just to make it clear. LOL!

 

[ccrobinson]

:laugh:

I can't believe you just wrote that, Ann.

:laugh: