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But you don't live up to God's standard. His standard is perfection, sinlessness. It is sinless in thought, word and deed. If you were to stand before God right now and He were to ask you: "Why should I let you into my Heaven," what would you answer?charles_creech78 said:I don't want to live up to my standards. I want to live up to Gods.
IS THE TEN COMANDMENTS IN THE LAW? Fisnish the rest of it.Ga 3:11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.DHK said:But you don't live up to God's standard. His standard is perfection, sinlessness. It is sinless in thought, word and deed. If you were to stand before God right now and He were to ask you: "Why should I let you into my Heaven," what would you answer?
Galatians 3:10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.
1 Corinthians 6:19-20 What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own? For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.charles_creech78 said:Cr 3:17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which [temple] ye are.
Absolutely, the Ten Commandments is not only in the Law but is often referred to as the Law, and the Jews could not keep it. Neither can you.charles_creech78 said:IS THE TEN COMANDMENTS IN THE LAW? Fisnish the rest of it.Ga 3:11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.
Ga 3:12 And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall (LIVE) in them.
Yes, and you have broken those too, haven't you?charles_creech78 said:What about the Laws Christ put in our hearts and minds. Do you not have those laws in your heart??
Ok DHK have I told you I could not sin. And by the way you want to judge me now did n't Christ say something about that. Because I speak the truth you get upset with me. Where have I lied because I said someone that is born again cannot commit sin. Is that it . I did not say that but GOD said it. Are you calling GOD a lier. Why is it that you are upset with. Is it because God can make a man perfect like this. An't the potter have power over the clay. Is it something you have done and another has not done...? Your sins are your sins and you will be judged by them. But know this everything a man does it will be judged weather it be good or bad.So, did Jesus come in vain. The flesh was weak under the Law Covenant, so Jesus came and died and set up the Grace Covenant, where we have the indwelling of the Holy Ghost and of Jesus Christ.DHK said:Yes, and you have broken those too, haven't you?
I can only judge according to the Word of God which teaches:charles_creech78 said:Ok DHK have I told you I could not sin. And by the way you want to judge me now did n't Christ say something about that.
I do not believe for a second that you actually believe this. If you do, then you are preaching a fall from grace. I don't think you are meaning to say that but it is whats being said. Again, please correct me if I am wrong.if David had of lived under the Grace Covenant and not repented, that he surely would be in Hell.
Nothing new there Charles. I too believe in eternal security. However, you don't. You believe that one can lose their salvation. You have told us that if you sin, even as David sinned, then had a heart attack without a chance to repent (even in this dispensation), then your eternal security would not hold up. You would lose your salvation, right?charles_creech78 said:Eternal Security
John 10:9. "My Father, who has given {them} to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch {them} out of the Father's hand. 30. "I and the Father are one."
John 6:39. "This is the will of Him who sent Me, that of all that He has given Me I lose nothing, but raise it up on the last day
John 14:16. "I will ask the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may be with you forever;
II Corinthians 1: 22. who also sealed us and gave {us} the Spirit in our hearts as a pledge.
Ephesians 4:30. Do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption
Philippians 1: 6. {For I am} confident of this very thing, that He who began a good work in you will perfect it until the day of Christ Jesus.
Hebrews 7:25. Therefore He is able also to save forever those who draw near to God through Him, since He always lives to make intercession for them.
I Peter 1: 5. who are protected by the power of God through faith for a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.
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No I am saying if you commit a sin like that YOU NEVER HAD SALVATION.DHK said:Nothing new there Charles. I too believe in eternal security. However, you don't. You believe that one can lose their salvation. You have told us that if you sin, even as David sinned, then had a heart attack without a chance to repent (even in this dispensation), then your eternal security would not hold up. You would lose your salvation, right?
Outsider said:Charles,
I think I understand what you are saying. Please correct me if I am wrong.
I see your view and it has merrit, but I think you feel as if you are backed into a corner and it sounds like you are just defending your point instead of either being willing to accept the truth or explaining the truth out in full.
I do not believe for a second that you actually believe this. If you do, then you are preaching a fall from grace. I don't think you are meaning to say that but it is whats being said. Again, please correct me if I am wrong.
Lets face the facts. If God saves you then you are saved! Period!!!
You cannot undo what God Himself has done.
Now, the real question is can a Christian commit a sin?
I have seen quotes from both sides of the debate using scripture out of context. Either trying to prove a point or just not understanding what the scripture is truley saying. I have done it myself on many occations only to find out later.
If we are all calm and honest, we will come to the understanding that we all, Christian or not, still commit sin. Remember, according to Christ, if we even get angry with a brother for no cause, it is the same as murder. If I get angry in that fashion, and have a heart attack and die, it will not cause me to go to hell. If I live for 5 years and never repent of it, If I was saved before hand, I am still saved now.
What I think he might be saying (I appologize if I speak incorrectly) is that a Christian will repent of their sin. If they don't, they will have no peace until they do. It will bear on a Christian until they do repent. If they have no desire to repent, that should be a huge red flag, meaning they never were saved to begin with.
I think if we are honest, we all know of people who "Play church". They go every weekend but there has been no change in their life. Some people look the other way, some are very vocal to point it out. Lets face it, if you are born again, you are a new creature. There will be a change!!!!
What sin can a Christian commit?
We are commanded to be holy as He is holy. It is not permitted for us to commit any sin. Making excuses doesn't cut it. If you tell a lie or commit adultry, it is a sin. We are all COMMANDED TO BE PERFECT!
I for one fall short daily in some aspect. If we truly examine ourselves, I feel we will all admit that, maybe not, but I do. I find myself many times a day thanking the Lord for the blessings and what He has done for me, I also find myself asking Him to forgive me of all my short commings....(Sin). There is always more I can do, when I don't do it, to me it is sin and I need to repent of it!
Can a Christian commit adultry, murder, or stay out of church for a year or two? I have to be honest, I don't know. If they are saved before hand, they are still saved. If they are able to live like that and feel no regret or need of repentance, I will boldly say that should be a huge red flag. If they do it once and repent (I mean true repentance, not just saying they are sorry) and do not continue in that lifestyle, again, that should be a red flag too. I also believe that there may still be big consequences for those actions. But thats another long story...
Charles, you may not agree with me on that last point (Maybe nobody agrees with me on any point), but this is how I see it.
The inward man is sealed. It cannot perform sin. It is perfect because it is born of the Spirit of God. When God looks at us He sees the blood of Christ. If it was applied to a persons soul then they are sealed. As long as we are in these body's, we are always at war. If we fall short on anything, it is a battle we have lost, but the war is already decided. If you have Christ, you have the victory.
I don't know anyones heart, I only see the fruits they bear. God searches the hearts of men. We have the strength to live a perfect life but I don't think any do. I am truly torn on the subject, but I have to believe that if I stop leaning on Christ and try to do things my way, it won't be long before I sin and the longer I try to work it out myself, the deeper I will go. This would either mean I was decieved this whole time, in claiming to be something I was not, or I have lost the joy of my salvation. I don't think it was that I was saved and then slid back out of grace.
I enjoy this discussion, we all may learn something.
That is a judgment you don't get to make.charles_creech78 said:No I am saying if you commit a sin like that YOU NEVER HAD SALVATION.
I did not.Romans 6:DHK said:That is a judgment you don't get to make.
You are not God. Why do you put yourself in the place of God.
I admit that I sin. You have just labeled or accused me of being unsaved. That is not your call.
That doesn't say we are perfect. It indicates that we, once we are saved, are created to do good works.charles_creech78 said:Delivered from being Dead in Trespasses and sin
1. And you were dead in your trespasses and sins, 2. in which you formerly walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, of the spirit that is now working in the sons of disobedience. 3. Among them we too all formerly lived in the lusts of our flesh, indulging the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, even as the rest. 4. But God, being rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, 5. even when we were dead in our transgressions, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), 6. and raised us up with Him, and seated us with Him in the heavenly {places} in Christ Jesus, 7. so that in the ages to come He might show the surpassing riches of His grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. 8. For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, {salvation is} the gift of God; 9. not as a result of works, so that no one may boast. 10. For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them.
There is no hint here of being sinless.Romans 5: 20. The Law came in so that the transgression would increase; but where sin increased, grace abounded all the more, 21. so that, as sin reigned in death, even so grace would reign through righteousness to eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
That is the goal, not the reality. We still have a sin nature. Read through chapter 7 of Romans and see the struggle that Paul has with sin. It was Paul that said:Romans 6:6. knowing this, that our old self was crucified with {Him,} in order that our body of sin might be done away with, so that we would no longer be slaves to sin;
These are the consequences of someone who has committed themselves to Christ, and has yielded themselves totally to Him. But no one does that 100% of the time, 100% of their lives. They sin. Paul admitted to sinning. Please read Romans chapter 7. You seem to ignore that chapter.7. for he who has died is freed from sin. 11. Even so consider yourselves to be dead to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus. 22. But now having been freed from sin and enslaved to God, you derive your benefit, resulting in sanctification, and the outcome, eternal life.23. For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
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Apply this to your own life, or admit that you are as perfect as Christ, and could also die for the sins of a man.charles_creech78 said:I did not.Romans 6:
10: For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.
11: Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.
12: Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.
13: Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.
14: For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.
15: What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.
16: Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?
17: But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.
18: Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.
I do apply it to my own life, what do you think I been talking about. It is to the Christian man. If someone can not live up to them, it is not his fault, he just does not have God to help himDHK said:Apply this to your own life, or admit that you are as perfect as Christ, and could also die for the sins of a man.