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Sola Scripture? Part Two
- Thread starter Bible-boy
- Start date
There is an interesting article:
Just as it is impossible to fear your mother and father and keep the Shabbat if you do not fear G-d, so it is impossible to keep the Sabbatical year and the Yovel year, if you do not fear G-d. Because there is no Temple and because both the Sabbatical and Yovel years are applicable only in the land of Yisrael, they cannot be properly celebrated. They can and should be remembered however, by every believer, why? Because the Shabbat points to Yom Kippur, the Sabbatical year points to Yom Kippur, the Yovel year points to Yom Kippur and Yom Kippur points to Yeshua.
Rabbi Jack Farber
(from : http://www.cmy.on.ca D'Var)
Just as it is impossible to fear your mother and father and keep the Shabbat if you do not fear G-d, so it is impossible to keep the Sabbatical year and the Yovel year, if you do not fear G-d. Because there is no Temple and because both the Sabbatical and Yovel years are applicable only in the land of Yisrael, they cannot be properly celebrated. They can and should be remembered however, by every believer, why? Because the Shabbat points to Yom Kippur, the Sabbatical year points to Yom Kippur, the Yovel year points to Yom Kippur and Yom Kippur points to Yeshua.
Rabbi Jack Farber
(from : http://www.cmy.on.ca D'Var)
Quoting BobRyan,
"I vote for going back to "Sola Scriptura" as a principle/doctrine that we see endorsed in scripture. We have more than enough space to ALSO devote focused time to God's Commandments as they are supported in God's Gospel on other threads."
I have seen through your intentions and now understand better your scheming. Take this 'vote' of yours, and in view of it, re-consider an old thread on 'Atonement', with reference to Hb8:4 and John saying "Touch me not ...". I could never understand why you so hammered on these text to 'prove' Jesus wasn't "priest while on earth" DESPITE you being an Adventist and YOUR Mrs White says He was. This is where YOUR 'sola Scriptura' brings one if HIS OWN Sola Scriptura. YOU, decided "if he were on earth he would not be a priest at all" would mean just what BobRyan teaches and all the others are wrong, because that is YOUR Sola Scriptura that knows no Subjunctive. You won't accept even if Mrs White says different from BobRyan - claiming the principle 'Sola Scriptura'. BobRyan has become Sola Scriptura.
"I vote for going back to "Sola Scriptura" as a principle/doctrine that we see endorsed in scripture. We have more than enough space to ALSO devote focused time to God's Commandments as they are supported in God's Gospel on other threads."
I have seen through your intentions and now understand better your scheming. Take this 'vote' of yours, and in view of it, re-consider an old thread on 'Atonement', with reference to Hb8:4 and John saying "Touch me not ...". I could never understand why you so hammered on these text to 'prove' Jesus wasn't "priest while on earth" DESPITE you being an Adventist and YOUR Mrs White says He was. This is where YOUR 'sola Scriptura' brings one if HIS OWN Sola Scriptura. YOU, decided "if he were on earth he would not be a priest at all" would mean just what BobRyan teaches and all the others are wrong, because that is YOUR Sola Scriptura that knows no Subjunctive. You won't accept even if Mrs White says different from BobRyan - claiming the principle 'Sola Scriptura'. BobRyan has become Sola Scriptura.
If we shut our ear for each other, we shall never hear the Word of God. As Karl Barth has explained, "Gehor-SAMkeit" -'obedience' is to HEAR or LISTEN to one another!
Therefore I think CLaudiaT with her lengthy references to Mrs White does more justice to the principle of Sola Scriptura than BobRyan with his version of the principle - to listen to no one else.
Therefore I think CLaudiaT with her lengthy references to Mrs White does more justice to the principle of Sola Scriptura than BobRyan with his version of the principle - to listen to no one else.
Jesus is my salvation; He is not 'my' Sabbath Day - that Day, belongs to Him; it isn't mine - or yours, with respect. At best it is 'ours' - the Church's Day of Rest, the Church being the beneficiary (spelling?) and gaurdian of its Lord's Day - which is given the Church for its life and living. Where is the Church if not assembled and worshipping through communion of the saints? Nowhere! That's the purpose of the Day of Worship - which never can or may be arbitrary but an act of obedience and faith in action and at rest - in Christ.Originally posted by DHK:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Gerhard Ebersoehn:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by DHK:
Jesus is my Sabbath. I have entered into his rest.
"To hallow 'the Lord sun's day'"? as you say, is the same as saying that you hallow on the "day of Saturn?" Do you worship Saturn?" Do you wordhip the gods of the Romans? Christians worship on the first day of the week, the day that Christ rose from the dead. Your argument is a red herring.
DHK
That 'red-herring' tune - since who was it used it, has turned rotten. </font>[/QUOTE]I said that Jesus is my Sabbath.
You twisted what I said, and said "Jesus is not my sabbath (Day)."
The two are completely different, as you know. Why did you twist what I said.
Hebrews chapter four teaches that Jesus is our Sabbath.
Colossians 2:16-17 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.
--The Sabbath is a shadow. It is not real. It is not the genuine article. My shadow gives an image or an outline of me. That is all a shadow does. It gives a dim image. That is what it did in the Old Testament. It gave a dim image of Christ who is our real rest. The Sabbath was the rest for the people of Israel. Christ is my rest. He is rest for every believer. We enter into his rest, the day that we are saved. He said: Come unto me... and I will give you rest. He is our Sabbath. Nowhere in the New Testament is the believer commanded to keep the Sabbath Day.
DHK </font>[/QUOTE]I did not twist what you have said - I said my own thing; my apologies. As we both know, the two are different things.
Hb4 teaches that Jesus is - not ours but - GOD's 'Rest' - katapausis/anapausis - and that "THEREFORE-ARA", "THERE REMAINETH for the People of God (of whichever age or dispensation: GOD's People) a KEEPING of the Sabbath DAY": "sabbatismos" - different things altogether - the one GOD's; the latter ours or the People's!
Then, jumping to Col, "therefore-oun" (because of Christ's triumph, vss 12-14) "Do not you (the Church) be judged by anyone (tis - of the world) judge you in/with respect to ..." it, i.e., the 'feasting' there described. "For in fact (verse 17 now) this (your feasting your Sabbath Days) is but the shadow of what is a coming: EVEN THE BOBY THAT IS CHRIST'S ... INCREASING WITH THE INCREASE OF GOD" -alleluiah!
I sometimes expect people to read a little further than the first verse. We all have Bibles don't we?Originally posted by DHK:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Gerhard Ebersoehn:
Sorry for the wrong knobs pressed.
Dear DHK,
You supply two Scriptures up here. Now please, where is the reference to the resurrection?
Luke 24:1-2 Now upon the first day of the week, very early in the morning, they came unto the sepulchre, bringing the spices which they had prepared, and certain others with them. And they found the stone rolled away from the sepulchre.
Luke 24:2-3 And they found the stone rolled away from the sepulchre. And they entered in, and found not the body of the Lord Jesus.
Luke 24:5-6 And as they were afraid, and bowed down their faces to the earth, they said unto them, Why seek ye the living among the dead? He is not here, but is risen: remember how he spake unto you when he was yet in Galilee,
Does it say that he arose or not?
DHK </font>[/QUOTE]Do these verses anywhere furtheron say that He rose ON THE FIRST DAY? or can't I or you, read? "Now remember ..." He IS IS IS Risen that is indefinitely at some time and on another day PAST - which only could have been the past Sabbath Day. Daoes it say that He rose ON THE FIRST DAY or not? No! it says not so - it says differently - in by implication say He had risen already the previous day.
Sorry, sincerely sorry, but this is arch-romish error! This 'church' is antichrist.Originally posted by nate:
The Church is the Pillar and Ground of truth does your Bible not say that Claudia? I know it does because you use the KJV. The Church made Sunday the day of worship thus enacting upon the Scripture which gives it that authority it has acted.
In Christ,
Nate
Dear DHK,
You know how wonderful and humbling it is that you and this Board would allow discussion of this matter? I say thank you; and thank You o Lord, for the opprtunity. I cannot do this through any SDA medium. They either ignore it as had I never spoken to them, or -if ever- with most feeble arguments escape sincere discussion.
You know how wonderful and humbling it is that you and this Board would allow discussion of this matter? I say thank you; and thank You o Lord, for the opprtunity. I cannot do this through any SDA medium. They either ignore it as had I never spoken to them, or -if ever- with most feeble arguments escape sincere discussion.
Quoting DHK,
"--The Sabbath is a shadow. It is not real. It is not the genuine article. My shadow gives an image or an outline of me. That is all a shadow does. It gives a dim image. That is what it did in the Old Testament. It gave a dim image of Christ who is our real rest. The Sabbath was the rest for the people of Israel. Christ is my rest. He is rest for every believer. We enter into his rest, the day that we are saved. He said: Come unto me... and I will give you rest. He is our Sabbath. Nowhere in the New Testament is the believer commanded to keep the Sabbath Day."
Here Paul says "these things": "Sabbaths'-feasts" of the Christians, "are a shadow, indeed of the REALITY WHICH IS CHRIST'S" - 100% literal and accurate translation of "ha estin skia ... sohma tou Xristou". Now what gives THIS, 'shadow' its "image and outline" - that is the crux of the matter! It is the Church, the "Body that is of Christ's (own)". And to which 'day' as this 'shadow' does it refer? To the Sabbaths of feasts" - the only New Testament Sabbath, the Lord's REAL "DAY"-"hehmera kuriakeh".
"--The Sabbath is a shadow. It is not real. It is not the genuine article. My shadow gives an image or an outline of me. That is all a shadow does. It gives a dim image. That is what it did in the Old Testament. It gave a dim image of Christ who is our real rest. The Sabbath was the rest for the people of Israel. Christ is my rest. He is rest for every believer. We enter into his rest, the day that we are saved. He said: Come unto me... and I will give you rest. He is our Sabbath. Nowhere in the New Testament is the believer commanded to keep the Sabbath Day."
Here Paul says "these things": "Sabbaths'-feasts" of the Christians, "are a shadow, indeed of the REALITY WHICH IS CHRIST'S" - 100% literal and accurate translation of "ha estin skia ... sohma tou Xristou". Now what gives THIS, 'shadow' its "image and outline" - that is the crux of the matter! It is the Church, the "Body that is of Christ's (own)". And to which 'day' as this 'shadow' does it refer? To the Sabbaths of feasts" - the only New Testament Sabbath, the Lord's REAL "DAY"-"hehmera kuriakeh".
Quoting DHK'
"We enter into his rest, the day that we are saved. He said: Come unto me... and I will give you rest. He is our Sabbath. Nowhere in the New Testament is the believer commanded to keep the Sabbath Day."
We enter into his rest, the day that we are saved ... and each day of our lives afterwards - evey Sabbath Day as the Body of Christ's to as the Communion of the Saints enjoy this salvation, share it and proclaim it - experiencing it as the One Body of Christ.
He said: Come unto me... and I will give you rest ... 'rest' - not Sabbath Day. But He had indeed given us His Day, "The Lord's Day" of which He "the Son of man is Lord" - even "the Sabbath of the LORD your God". What could be clearer, for even "the Seventh Day is the Sabbath of the LORD your God"? "For the Scriptures declare: For thus God concerning the Seventh Day has spoken: And God on the Seventh Day FINISHED, ALL the works of God". It is a New Testament Word -- nowhere in the New Testament is the believer commanded to keep the Sabbath Day. Why should he? It would be most inept and unbecoming!
"We enter into his rest, the day that we are saved. He said: Come unto me... and I will give you rest. He is our Sabbath. Nowhere in the New Testament is the believer commanded to keep the Sabbath Day."
We enter into his rest, the day that we are saved ... and each day of our lives afterwards - evey Sabbath Day as the Body of Christ's to as the Communion of the Saints enjoy this salvation, share it and proclaim it - experiencing it as the One Body of Christ.
He said: Come unto me... and I will give you rest ... 'rest' - not Sabbath Day. But He had indeed given us His Day, "The Lord's Day" of which He "the Son of man is Lord" - even "the Sabbath of the LORD your God". What could be clearer, for even "the Seventh Day is the Sabbath of the LORD your God"? "For the Scriptures declare: For thus God concerning the Seventh Day has spoken: And God on the Seventh Day FINISHED, ALL the works of God". It is a New Testament Word -- nowhere in the New Testament is the believer commanded to keep the Sabbath Day. Why should he? It would be most inept and unbecoming!
If you fear God, why are you afraid to call on His Name?Originally posted by Eliyahu:
There is an interesting article:
Just as it is impossible to fear your mother and father and keep the Shabbat if you do not fear G-d, so it is impossible to keep the Sabbatical year and the Yovel year, if you do not fear G-d. Because there is no Temple and because both the Sabbatical and Yovel years are applicable only in the land of Yisrael, they cannot be properly celebrated. They can and should be remembered however, by every believer, why? Because the Shabbat points to Yom Kippur, the Sabbatical year points to Yom Kippur, the Yovel year points to Yom Kippur and Yom Kippur points to Yeshua.
Rabbi Jack Farber
(from : http://www.cmy.on.ca D'Var)
In any case, "G-d" as little resembles God's Name as does 'God', written full-out, if sound or spelling is to determine the Name of God. You may even write something like 'Yahweh' - but can never be sure that was or is God's Name for real as far as human language is concerned.
I find this COG habit very annoying and hypocritical phariseeism.
What is most irritating is that they insist on rendering Jesus' Name something like Yehashuah or any variant but 'Jesus', not knowing themselves a thing about which they're so persistent -- YET they deny Jesus His Divinity! Now it - to me - has become blaspheming!
Quoting Eliyahoo,
"Because the Shabbat points to Yom Kippur"
It becomes most obvious Christianity has nothing to learn from Judaism. Take this statement, for example. No, it's Yom Kippur that pointed to Christ and to the Sabbath; not vice versa.
"Because the Shabbat points to Yom Kippur"
It becomes most obvious Christianity has nothing to learn from Judaism. Take this statement, for example. No, it's Yom Kippur that pointed to Christ and to the Sabbath; not vice versa.
Quoting SMM,
"How we got from Sola Scriptura to Sabbath Rest I don't have a clue."
Because all and every argument to make of 'Sabbath Rest' NOT 'Sabbath Day' is NOT Sola Scriptura!
"How we got from Sola Scriptura to Sabbath Rest I don't have a clue."
Because all and every argument to make of 'Sabbath Rest' NOT 'Sabbath Day' is NOT Sola Scriptura!
Rv:22:19: And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.Originally posted by nate:
The Church is the Pillar and Ground of truth does your Bible not say that Claudia? I know it does because you use the KJV. The Church made Sunday the day of worship thus enacting upon the Scripture which gives it that authority it has acted.
In Christ,
Nate
Nate,
The Church has no right to remove commandments, switch them around, change commandments.
The Sabbath Commandment was made to commemorate the fact that in 6 days God created the heavens and the earth and rested on the 7th day from all the works He had done.
You can hardly change that around, any more than you could change your birthday.
You cant go directly against what is already written in the Scriptures and then claim that to be "sola scriptura".
Even the Catholic Church itself says that if you really want to follow sola scriptura you ought to become a Seventh Day Adventist because the Catholic Church changed the Sabbath and Protestants are following what the Catholic Church says instead of what the Bible says.
Claudia
okaaayyyyyy... well alrighty then!Originally posted by Gerhard Ebersoehn:
Quoting BobRyan,
"I vote for going back to "Sola Scriptura" as a principle/doctrine that we see endorsed in scripture. We have more than enough space to ALSO devote focused time to God's Commandments as they are supported in God's Gospel on other threads."
I have seen through your intentions and now understand better your scheming. Take this 'vote' of yours, and in view of it, re-consider an old thread on 'Atonement', with reference to Hb8:4 and John saying "Touch me not ...". I could never understand why you so hammered on these text to 'prove' Jesus wasn't "priest while on earth" DESPITE you being an Adventist and YOUR Mrs White says He was. This is where YOUR 'sola Scriptura' brings one if HIS OWN Sola Scriptura. YOU, decided "if he were on earth he would not be a priest at all" would mean just what BobRyan teaches and all the others are wrong, because that is YOUR Sola Scriptura that knows no Subjunctive. You won't accept even if Mrs White says different from BobRyan - claiming the principle 'Sola Scriptura'. BobRyan has become Sola Scriptura.
Colossians 2:16-17 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.
This is not referring to the 7th day Sabbath of the Ten Commandment Law.
This refers only to the sabbaths which were "a shadow of things to come" and not to the seventh-day Sabbath. There were seven yearly holy days, in ancient which were also called sabbaths. These were "in addition to", or "beside the sabbaths of the Lord" (Leviticus 23:38), or seventh-day Sabbath.
These foreshadowed, or pointed to, the cross and also they ended at the cross.
The seventh-day Sabbath was made BEFORE sin had even entered the world, and therefore could not foreshadow anything in regards to deliverance from sin.
Colossians chapter 2 differentiates and specifically mentions the sabbaths that were "a shadow."
You can go to Leviticus chapter 23 to see where these seven yearly sabbaths which were abolished are listed.
Thats why its talking about "new moons" and "meats and drinks" and all of that... because it isnt referring to the 10 commandments at all.
Claudia
This is not referring to the 7th day Sabbath of the Ten Commandment Law.
This refers only to the sabbaths which were "a shadow of things to come" and not to the seventh-day Sabbath. There were seven yearly holy days, in ancient which were also called sabbaths. These were "in addition to", or "beside the sabbaths of the Lord" (Leviticus 23:38), or seventh-day Sabbath.
These foreshadowed, or pointed to, the cross and also they ended at the cross.
The seventh-day Sabbath was made BEFORE sin had even entered the world, and therefore could not foreshadow anything in regards to deliverance from sin.
Colossians chapter 2 differentiates and specifically mentions the sabbaths that were "a shadow."
You can go to Leviticus chapter 23 to see where these seven yearly sabbaths which were abolished are listed.
Thats why its talking about "new moons" and "meats and drinks" and all of that... because it isnt referring to the 10 commandments at all.
Claudia
A better ocasion in the NT 'for' the Sabbath could not be found- what irony you narrow-minded SDA's refuse to 'receive further light' on the sabbath-truth, as your own Mrs White has -correctly once- 'prophesied'.Originally posted by Claudia_T:
Colossians 2:16-17 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.
This is not referring to the 7th day Sabbath of the Ten Commandment Law.
This refers only to the sabbaths which were "a shadow of things to come" and not to the seventh-day Sabbath. There were seven yearly holy days, in ancient which were also called sabbaths. These were "in addition to", or "beside the sabbaths of the Lord" (Leviticus 23:38), or seventh-day Sabbath.
These foreshadowed, or pointed to, the cross and also they ended at the cross.
The seventh-day Sabbath was made BEFORE sin had even entered the world, and therefore could not foreshadow anything in regards to deliverance from sin.
Colossians chapter 2 differentiates and specifically mentions the sabbaths that were "a shadow."
You can go to Leviticus chapter 23 to see where these seven yearly sabbaths which were abolished are listed.
Thats why its talking about "new moons" and "meats and drinks" and all of that... because it isnt referring to the 10 commandments at all.
Claudia
You identify the SDA Church as Laodecea - yourselves ; not I or any others. But show them how and in which respect ... typically Laodecean you're rejected out of hand, so self-satified are you people.
Claudia it's years now since I first referred you to http://www.biblestudents.co.za where you will find more than six hundred pages just on Colossians 2:16-17. But you prefer the preferences of God's Sabbath Day's judges, thinking those pages not worth a glance.
Claudia it's years now since I first referred you to http://www.biblestudents.co.za where you will find more than six hundred pages just on Colossians 2:16-17. But you prefer the preferences of God's Sabbath Day's judges, thinking those pages not worth a glance.