Sola Scripture? Part Two

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

Quoting Eliyahoo,
". What you said sounds that they gathered on Sabbath, then continued the gathering to next day, then at that time they collected the money and broke the bread. So, you are claiming two days service."
Not at all. I say what the word 'sunehgmenohn' presicely in the Greek means, that "being gathered together still on the First Day after we had assembled (before / earlier), Paul discussed ...". There is only one possible implication: Tha actual "gathering together" took place - had taken place - the day before which was 'Saturday'

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

Quoting Eliyahoo,
"3. Pentecost and Day of Firstfruits fell on the first day of the week always. Study Lev 23 more."


Go tell the Jews! They will laugh at you - for one simple reason, you take the word 'sabbath' there (in Lv23) to be the 'weekly' sabbath. Not so; this 'sabbath' was the sabbath of the passover specifically, and could fall on any day of the week - depending on the conincidence of spring equinox and new moon.

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

Originally posted by SpiritualMadMan:
I like Blessings...

Galatians 3:13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:

The Curses, the "Have To's", are done away with in Christ...

But, guess what...

The Blessings remain!

All carrot... No *real* stick...

That sure changes the "Want To's"...

No my dear man, the curse is the "wages of sin" - death.
Christianity without any 'have to's'? I don't know about it! But we, Christians, have ONE LAW, the Word of God the Risen, Living Lord Jesus Christ. 'TO' follow Him means 'TO' believe in Him and so 'TO' obey Him. Christianity is nothing but 'TO's'! THE LAW RULES supreme in our hearts. THAT LAW, never gave the slightest indication to His followers to keep Sunday. And THAT LAW by His own doing of dying and rising to establish eternal covenantal rule over his subjects, gave us every indication to "feast Sabbaths" - as Paul in Col2 said, in the face of the world that judge us for doing so.

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

Originally posted by Eliyahu:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Claudia_T:
God has pronounced a special blessing upon all Gentiles who keep the Sabbath (See Isaiah 56:6,7)

This Sabbath blessing is in the prophecy that refers wholly to the Christian dispensation (See Isaiah 56)

I keep Sabbaths by believing in Jesus since Jesus Christ is the eternal Sabbath and I rest in Him eternally, instead of keeping the Law as Holy Spirit is my Law. </font>[/QUOTE]I believe you unwittingly have fallen vistim to this most hypocritical selfrighteous lie, that cries out against any who might think it the practice of a righteous devotion to keep holy the Lord's single Sabbath, but who improve on God's design and boast every and all days alike so holily kept and exalted as were they God themselves.

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

Quoting Claudia T,
"Lots of people say Jesus is their rest and their Sabbath, etc. But where do you get that out of the Scriptures?"

If people would say that while not in context of Sabbath-rowing, I have no reason to take their word for it - Who are any man to say another isn't Christ's?

But strange how seldom we hear this argument not in the context of anti-Sabbath-rowing and railing. Then for sure it's false and hypocricy, and do they certainly not get it 'out of Scripture', I agree.

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

Quoting Eliyahoo,
"instead of keeping the Law as Holy Spirit is my Law."

Christ is the Christian's Law - He cannot deny Himself because He is God, and therefore cannot deny the Law that still is His Word and Law, but has gone into retirement for it has found its Successor Jesus who died and rose again - God's rest and ours by faith IN HIM!
I also doubt your claim the Holy Spiri being the Law unto you, because you might so easily mistake Him for your own whims. Any 'spirit' that witnesses to the Christ is antichrist - so if your 'holy spirit' claims diffrently from ALL the Word of God - Incarnate or Written- it is the devil bluffing you.

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

Sorry, '... any spirit that witnesses NOT to the Christ ...

 

[SpiritualMadMan]

Originally posted by Gerhard Ebersoehn:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by SpiritualMadMan:
I like Blessings...

Galatians 3:13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:

The Curses, the "Have To's", are done away with in Christ...

But, guess what...

The Blessings remain!

All carrot... No *real* stick...

That sure changes the "Want To's"...

No my dear man, the curse is the "wages of sin" - death.
Christianity without any 'have to's'? I don't know about it! But we, Christians, have ONE LAW, the Word of God the Risen, Living Lord Jesus Christ. 'TO' follow Him means 'TO' believe in Him and so 'TO' obey Him. Christianity is nothing but 'TO's'! THE LAW RULES supreme in our hearts. THAT LAW, never gave the slightest indication to His followers to keep Sunday. And THAT LAW by His own doing of dying and rising to establish eternal covenantal rule over his subjects, gave us every indication to "feast Sabbaths" - as Paul in Col2 said, in the face of the world that judge us for doing so.</font>[/QUOTE]Hmmm what do you do with this passage?

Galatians 3:10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.

Galatians 3:11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.

Galatians 3:12 And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.

Galatians 3:13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:

White Space Is Free...

I had trouble reading and understanding your post...

And, did not understand your conclusions...

I do agree that death is a part of the curse, and that death curses us...

But, the Law also became a curse to us because while it was intended to bring life it could only bring death...

As for no "Have To's" did you miss the point of changed, "Want To's"?

The Love of Christ, not the Law constrains our actions now... Not because we are being forced to... But, because we "Want To".

SMM

 

[DHK]

Originally posted by Gerhard Ebersoehn:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by DHK:
Luke 24:1-2 Now upon the first day of the week, very early in the morning, they came unto the sepulchre, bringing the spices which they had prepared, and certain others with them. And they found the stone rolled away from the sepulchre.

Mark 16:1-2 And when the sabbath was past, Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James, and Salome, had bought sweet spices, that they might come and anoint him. And very early in the morning the first day of the week, they came unto the sepulchre at the rising of the sun.

Scripture doesn't contradict itself. The Sabbath was past. Christ arose on the first day of the week--Sunday. The Sabbath is not binding on the Christian. For sake of argument, if he did rise on the Sabbath, there is still no command to keep the Sabbath for the Christian. It is a sign of the covenant between Jehovah and the nation of Israel and their generations forever. Check Exodus 31.
DHK

You are blind to the fact of which mention is being made here. Not a word to be read here about the resurrection. The ONLY Scripture describing the actual events that surrounded the resurrection is Matthew 28:1. </font>[/QUOTE]If you say there is no mention of the resurrection in the above verses then you didn't read them. If you deny that Christ arose on the first day of the week (Sunday) then you also didn't read the above Scriptures. If you deny that the Sabbath was a sign of the covenant made between Jehovah and Israel and her generations forever (and therefore has nothing to do with the Gentiles (Christians), then you have not studied Exodus 31. The Sabbath is not for today. There is no command in the Scripture for the Christian to keep the Sabbath today.
DHK

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

Originally posted by SpiritualMadMan:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Gerhard Ebersoehn:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by SpiritualMadMan:
I like Blessings...

Galatians 3:13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:

The Curses, the "Have To's", are done away with in Christ...

But, guess what...

The Blessings remain!

All carrot... No *real* stick...

That sure changes the "Want To's"...

No my dear man, the curse is the "wages of sin" - death.
Christianity without any 'have to's'? I don't know about it! But we, Christians, have ONE LAW, the Word of God the Risen, Living Lord Jesus Christ. 'TO' follow Him means 'TO' believe in Him and so 'TO' obey Him. Christianity is nothing but 'TO's'! THE LAW RULES supreme in our hearts. THAT LAW, never gave the slightest indication to His followers to keep Sunday. And THAT LAW by His own doing of dying and rising to establish eternal covenantal rule over his subjects, gave us every indication to "feast Sabbaths" - as Paul in Col2 said, in the face of the world that judge us for doing so.</font>[/QUOTE]Hmmm what do you do with this passage?

Galatians 3:10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.

Galatians 3:11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.

Galatians 3:12 And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.

Galatians 3:13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:

White Space Is Free...

I had trouble reading and understanding your post...

And, did not understand your conclusions...

I do agree that death is a part of the curse, and that death curses us...

But, the Law also became a curse to us because while it was intended to bring life it could only bring death...

As for no "Have To's" did you miss the point of changed, "Want To's"?

The Love of Christ, not the Law constrains our actions now... Not because we are being forced to... But, because we "Want To".

SMM </font>[/QUOTE]Now I agree with you and cannot do so more! 'Want To's' - that is grace - "the love of Christ constraineth". WHAT? To hallow "the lord sun's day"? in the Scriptures? 'Sola Scriptura'? Come on, all Christians, we do NOT believe all that?! But whereas it is "the Sabbath OF THE LORD your God": who could 'want to' otherwise? Especially since Christ rose from the dead; was promised to rise from the dead on the Sabbath Day; and was prophesied - IN THE ESCRIPTURES - to rise from the dead on the Sabbath Day - who; which christian, would not? Are Christian expectation to disappoint? In other words, will God not honour His Word? Never, of course! So that's why the Christian is made free and is free, to "enter into" and enjoy "a keeping of the Sabbath Day still valid for the People of God": "For Jesus had given them rest" ... Hb4.

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

Originally posted by DHK:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Gerhard Ebersoehn:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by DHK:
Luke 24:1-2 Now upon the first day of the week, very early in the morning, they came unto the sepulchre, bringing the spices which they had prepared, and certain others with them. And they found the stone rolled away from the sepulchre.

Mark 16:1-2 And when the sabbath was past, Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James, and Salome, had bought sweet spices, that they might come and anoint him. And very early in the morning the first day of the week, they came unto the sepulchre at the rising of the sun.

Scripture doesn't contradict itself. The Sabbath was past. Christ arose on the first day of the week--Sunday. The Sabbath is not binding on the Christian. For sake of argument, if he did rise on the Sabbath, there is still no command to keep the Sabbath for the Christian. It is a sign of the covenant between Jehovah and the nation of Israel and their generations forever. Check Exodus 31.
DHK

You are blind to the fact of which mention is being made here. Not a word to be read here about the resurrection. The ONLY Scripture describing the actual events that surrounded the resurrection is Matthew 28:1. </font>[/QUOTE]If you say there is no mention of the resurrection in the above verses then you didn't read them. If you deny that Christ arose on the first day of the week (Sunday) then you also didn't read the above Scriptures. If you deny that the Sabbath was a sign of the covenant made between Jehovah and Israel and her generations forever (and therefore has nothing to do with the Gentiles (Christians), then you have not studied Exodus 31. The Sabbath is not for today. There is no command in the Scripture for the Christian to keep the Sabbath today.
DHK </font>[/QUOTE]

 

[DHK]

Jesus is my Sabbath. I have entered into his rest.
"To hallow 'the Lord sun's day'"? as you say, is the same as saying that you hallow on the "day of Saturn?" Do you worship Saturn?" Do you wordhip the gods of the Romans? Christians worship on the first day of the week, the day that Christ rose from the dead. Your argument is a red herring.
DHK

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

Sorry for the wrong knobs pressed.

Dear DHK,

You supply two Scriptures up here. Now please, where is the reference to the resurrection? The implication is there for sure; but that is the implication of a PAST Resurrection; there is no 'live' description nor immediate chronological connection. This is where each and every of the MANY assumed 'discrepancies' and 'contradictions in the Gospels', originate. I believe the inerrancy of the Scriptures - the original. Taking Sunday morning for the day and time of Jesus' resurrection brings about and deserves the scorn Christianity receives from unbelievers.
My stance in the first place is: When would it - from the whole of the Scriptures - to be expected that Jesus would accomplish and finish "all the works of God" - even the "works" of "the exceeding greatness of His power"? Just where Paul describes that POWER: "WHEN (God) raised Him from the dead". "O that I may know Him and the power of His resurrection" - is the only knowledge of God's Day of salvation-rest.

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

Originally posted by DHK:
Jesus is my Sabbath. I have entered into his rest.
"To hallow 'the Lord sun's day'"? as you say, is the same as saying that you hallow on the "day of Saturn?" Do you worship Saturn?" Do you wordhip the gods of the Romans? Christians worship on the first day of the week, the day that Christ rose from the dead. Your argument is a red herring.
DHK

Jesus is my salvation; He is not 'my' Sabbath Day - that Day, belongs to Him; it isn't mine - or yours, with respect. At best it is 'ours' - the Church's Day of Rest, the Church being the beneficiary (spelling?) and gaurdian of its Lord's Day - which is given the Church for its life and living. Where is the Church if not assembled and worshipping through communion of the saints? Nowhere! That's the purpose of the Day of Worship - which never can or may be arbitrary but an act of obedience and faith in action and at rest - in Christ.

That 'red-herring' tune - since who was it used it, has turned rotten.

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

Quoting DHK
"Christians worship on the first day of the week, the day that Christ rose from the dead."

This has broken my heart; this insignificant no con poop man's heart; but it did (for what it might be worth to you or to God) - this, how WRONG Christians are in this respect, and how UNREPENTIVE. But it had its positive side: That I found my solace in the Lord of the Sabbath Day in the end. "He shall make you ride the heights of the earth", is a Sabbath-Scripture; not for the Jews only, but for every believer in that ONE WHO would one day make true His promise.

 

[SpiritualMadMan]

I would like to take part in the exchange...

But, I am having trouble deciphering the posts...

Because the formatting and punctuation leave the intent and meaning somewhat ambiguous...

Also there are a lot of sentence fragments from which no conclusion or meaning can be derived...


The idea of Jesus being our Sabbath Rest may come from a combination of

Matthew 11:28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.

Hebrews 4:9 There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.

The NIV renders it

Hebrews 4:9 There remains, then, a Sabbathrest for the people of God;

Which the Greek supports...

How we got from Sola Scriptura to Sabbath Rest I don't have a clue.

But, here we are!

SMM

 

[BobRyan]

Did a little research. Claudia managed to set the stage for switching this thread over to beig another "Sabbath" thread here --

http://www.baptistboard.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php/topic/28/3883/6.html#000091

I agree that Sabbath is in the Bible - and I agree with Claudia that ignoring the Sabbath is done "in spite of what is said IN Scriptura about it" -- but that subject is loaded - I don't see how can possibly debate BOTH the Sabbath AND the sola-scriptura subject on the same thread.

I vote for going back to "Sola Scriptura" as a principle/doctrine that we see endorsed in scripture. We have more than enough space to ALSO devote focused time to God's Commandments as they are supported in God's Gospel on other threads.

In Christ,

Bob

 

[Claudia_T]

Actually all I said was that I couldnt see how Protestants claim sola scriptura when they at the same time are following Catholic tradition in keeping the sunday sabbath.

Its not my fault they all started talking about the sabbath.

 

[DHK]

Originally posted by Gerhard Ebersoehn:
Sorry for the wrong knobs pressed.

Dear DHK,

You supply two Scriptures up here. Now please, where is the reference to the resurrection?

I sometimes expect people to read a little further than the first verse. We all have Bibles don't we?

Luke 24:1-2 Now upon the first day of the week, very early in the morning, they came unto the sepulchre, bringing the spices which they had prepared, and certain others with them. And they found the stone rolled away from the sepulchre.
Luke 24:2-3 And they found the stone rolled away from the sepulchre. And they entered in, and found not the body of the Lord Jesus.
Luke 24:5-6 And as they were afraid, and bowed down their faces to the earth, they said unto them, Why seek ye the living among the dead? He is not here, but is risen: remember how he spake unto you when he was yet in Galilee,

Does it say that he arose or not?
DHK

 

[DHK]

Originally posted by Gerhard Ebersoehn:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by DHK:
Jesus is my Sabbath. I have entered into his rest.
"To hallow 'the Lord sun's day'"? as you say, is the same as saying that you hallow on the "day of Saturn?" Do you worship Saturn?" Do you wordhip the gods of the Romans? Christians worship on the first day of the week, the day that Christ rose from the dead. Your argument is a red herring.
DHK

Jesus is my salvation; He is not 'my' Sabbath Day - that Day, belongs to Him; it isn't mine - or yours, with respect. At best it is 'ours' - the Church's Day of Rest, the Church being the beneficiary (spelling?) and gaurdian of its Lord's Day - which is given the Church for its life and living. Where is the Church if not assembled and worshipping through communion of the saints? Nowhere! That's the purpose of the Day of Worship - which never can or may be arbitrary but an act of obedience and faith in action and at rest - in Christ.

That 'red-herring' tune - since who was it used it, has turned rotten. </font>[/QUOTE]I said that Jesus is my Sabbath.
You twisted what I said, and said "Jesus is not my sabbath (Day)."
The two are completely different, as you know. Why did you twist what I said.
Hebrews chapter four teaches that Jesus is our Sabbath.

Colossians 2:16-17 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.
--The Sabbath is a shadow. It is not real. It is not the genuine article. My shadow gives an image or an outline of me. That is all a shadow does. It gives a dim image. That is what it did in the Old Testament. It gave a dim image of Christ who is our real rest. The Sabbath was the rest for the people of Israel. Christ is my rest. He is rest for every believer. We enter into his rest, the day that we are saved. He said: Come unto me... and I will give you rest. He is our Sabbath. Nowhere in the New Testament is the believer commanded to keep the Sabbath Day.
DHK