Sola Scripture? Part Two

[BobRyan]

Mike said
I've always sensed that they view Ellen White as one who had some good insights that they feel are credible, but they dont lift writings up to the level of scripture as the Mormons, JW's and Catholics do with their un-biblical teachings.

I could be wrong about that, however.

True. SDAs view Ellen White much as we might view one of the prophets in 1Cor 14 who were said to give prophetic messages but who never wrote a word of Scripture.

The Word of God is STILL the SOLE judge of all doctrine - the standard for all faith and practice EVEN if you live in the church of Corinth and experience the 1Cor 14 gifts in that first century church!

(Can you tell that I would really like to keep this thread on topic?)

In Christ,

Bob

 

[Claudia_T]

Originally posted by Eric B:
I'm sorry, and I was actually trying to think of a nicer word, but was inbetween other tasks at the moment, but that is what it is.
You are posting on a Baptist board this stuff that criticizes the majority of Baptists (and other Christians here) for not keeping a practice that your denomination believes in. The material often speaks of the great endtime deception being Sunday worship (which is highly unlikely; of all the moral and political issues the Church is arguing over, that is the least thing on people's minds), and the insinuation is that we all are the ones who are deceived, sinning, trampling God's Law and saying there is no law, etc.; and will be caught up in the Beast worship if we do not heed this person and her prophesies, or those of you who follow her. That is propaganda.

well you are certainly entitled to your opinion.

I didnt know that any doctrine that disagrees with yours was considered to be "propaganda".

I just always viewed it as Biblical.

sorry.

 

[Claudia_T]

D28guy and BobRyan,

Thank you so much for being understanding... I appreciate it very much

Claudia

 

[Claudia_T]

Originally posted by standingfirminChrist:
Mike,

Not all were by EG White. Many were by EJ Waggoner and other authors. The bottom line is, when credit is due, credit should be given.

I think its somewhat unfair you accusing me of plagurizing and all the rest of it.

You coudlve just asked me.

The truth is that I had posted the very same articles by EJ Waggoner and AT Jones over and over again in here and given them credit and so I thought everyone already knew who wrote them.

But I was just trying to avoid trouble since a couple of the people on here kept starting in on me about supposedly me not wanting to debate and so on and so forth. I was just trying to avoid all the hassle of them starting in on me about it.

Besides that their work was written in the 1800s or maybe some of it in the 1900s.

If its that big a deal I wont post any more of their writings. I just like the way they explain Romans 7 and didnt think it mattered since everybody already knew who wrote it anyway since Id posted it so many times before with their names on it.

To me it seems like you all are just trying to find something to "get" me with and it wouldve been nice if you'd of just asked me about it all to begin with.

But thats fine, I wont post anything by them anymore since it seems like either way, Im sunk. If anyone else posts something by someone else it seems like its no big deal but if I do, its the end of the world and Im supposedly "going by what Pope Ellen White says". So if I say who wrote it (which everyone already knows who wrote it anyway) I get harrassed and if I dont say then I get harrassed anyway. and by the way Ellen Whites work isnt copyrighted either.

I just wish Id of been given the chance to explain myself before being accused.

so fine, I wont post any of it anymore.

thanks,

Claudia

[ May 09, 2006, 06:09 AM: Message edited by: Claudia_T ]

 

[Claudia_T]

also, Im thinking that the reason you KNEW it was from my website at http://www.religiouscounterfeits.org/romans_chapter7.htm

was because I had posted the very same article in here over and over again, many times linking from my website at that address.. and giving credit to Wagoner and Jones for it


ya think???

sorry but its REALLY difficult for me not to think that you all just didnt like some of the things that Ive been saying and that you are just using this copyright thing to get back at me.

but that is just fine with me I will no longer post any of their materials.

Claudia

 

[Claudia_T]

Read this

and if you will go look at this thread you will see just what I am talking about.

If I post an article from Jones or Waggoner they start in on me about being in a "cult" and everything else.

So I was just trying to avoid all of that for my sake and the sake of this message board as well.

I figure by now everyone knows who wrote the stuff since I have posted it before and given credit a jillion times. and it ISNT COPYRIGHTED.

so its really unfair of you to try to paint me out to be someone trying to "plagurize" someone elses work.

Its just difficult for me right now, very difficult. I am laid up most the time here in bed trying to type laying on my back and cant stay like that very long. Copying and pasting is easier for me.

Im bored out of my mind with nothing to do and just wanted some place where I could chat.


I had no idea people would make such a huge deal out of all of this and I am sorry. I repent in dust and ashes, etc... and I wont do it again.

Claudia

 

[Bible-boy]

Originally posted by Claudia_T:
Read this

and if you will go look at this thread you will see just what I am talking about.

If I post an article from Jones or Waggoner they start in on me about being in a "cult" and everything else.

So I was just trying to avoid all of that for my sake and the sake of this message board as well.

I figure by now everyone knows who wrote the stuff since I have posted it before and given credit a jillion times. and it ISNT COPYRIGHTED.

so its really unfair of you to try to paint me out to be someone trying to "plagurize" someone elses work.

Its just difficult for me right now, very difficult. I am laid up most the time here in bed trying to type laying on my back and cant stay like that very long. Copying and pasting is easier for me.

Im bored out of my mind with nothing to do and just wanted some place where I could chat.


I had no idea people would make such a huge deal out of all of this and I am sorry. I repent in dust and ashes, etc... and I wont do it again.

Claudia

Hello Claudia,

I am sorry that you are having physical trouble right now. However, I must point out that it is not clear to everyone when you post huge long quotations without references to the original author that you are not attempting to portray yourself as the author. New posters to the forum would have no way of knowing what you have previously posted.

Likewise, huge long quotations are not enjoyable to read and make discussion/debate nearly impossible. Several Moderators and many of your fellow posters have repeatedly asked you not to post such long quotations. Please honor those requests.

Perhaps for the time being, if you are unable to type our own posts, it would be best for you not to post for a while. In any case your posting of huge long cut and paste quotations must stop. Thank you for your cooperation in this matter. I pray you will be better soon.

Yours in Christ,

Bible-Boy,
Forum Moderator

[ May 09, 2006, 07:24 AM: Message edited by: Bible-boy ]

 

[D28guy]

Claudia,

"Its just difficult for me right now, very difficult. I am laid up most the time here in bed trying to type laying on my back and cant stay like that very long. Copying and pasting is easier for me.

Im bored out of my mind with nothing to do and just wanted some place where I could chat."

Is this the "feet" problem you mentioned in another post somewhere?

I didnt know you were having such substantial physical problems. I sure will pray for you, and I'm sure others here will as well.

In~His~Grace~

Mike

 

[BobRyan]

Originally posted by Claudia_T:
Read this

and if you will go look at this thread you will see just what I am talking about.

If I post an article from Jones or Waggoner they start in on me about being in a "cult" and everything else.

So I was just trying to avoid all of that for my sake and the sake of this message board as well.


I had no idea people would make such a huge deal out of all of this and I am sorry. I repent in dust and ashes, etc... and I wont do it again.

Claudia

This is a thread on "sola scriptura". This thread above all others would be a good place not to quote any SDA sources to make the case FOR sola scriptura UNLESS someone is asking "Do SDAs believe in Sola Scriptura".

The entire "sola scriptura debate" could be framed as "do you simply listen to your own religious leaders/traditions/sayings or do you go to the Bible ALONE for doctrine".

That is a good place to argue from "the Bible alone".

In Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

My point has been that in every denomination - all are human all have sinful natures. The sinful nature "naturally" goes to other sources to man-made-tradition instead of "sola scriptura" to make a doctrinal point. It does not matter what church you belong to -

The example of the RCC is just an "institutionalized" version of that error.

In Christ,

Bob

 

[Claudia_T]

Originally posted by D28guy:
Claudia,

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />"Its just difficult for me right now, very difficult. I am laid up most the time here in bed trying to type laying on my back and cant stay like that very long. Copying and pasting is easier for me.

Im bored out of my mind with nothing to do and just wanted some place where I could chat."

Is this the "feet" problem you mentioned in another post somewhere?

I didnt know you were having such substantial physical problems. I sure will pray for you, and I'm sure others here will as well.

In~His~Grace~

Mike </font>[/QUOTE]Mike,

Yes its that same problem, I will just tell you a little about it here. And I'd be very happy if you'd pray for me, please.

I reinjured my foot from walking around for hours worrying about something. This time it didnt get better, but worse. Its gotten to where if I sit down at all in a chair, in the car, etc... my foot will turn purpleish and the pressure is so bad I cant stay there for more than a minute or two. I have to either lie down or walk and walking isnt easy.

It feels like when you were a kid and you'd hang upside down on the monkey bars and your head felt like it was going to explode so you had to climb down. It does that if I elevate my feet in the air when Im lying down too.

The only two things I can find so far that cause this are pinched nerves in the feet or a injured artery. The other foot started doing this exact same thing. And they have been doing all sorts of other weird things too I think maybe just because of lack of circulation.

So Ive had to lie down in bed alot. Alot of the time on my right side or left. If I lie on my back sometimes it turns purpleish.

anyway Im tyring to use this laptop computer and its new to me and a real pain. But as I said its really boring lying here not being able to go anywhere or do anything, and thus this is why Ive been on this message board so much lately.

Please pray for me, Id really appreciate it. Also, please pray for my mental state because sometimes I wonder if it will ever get better or if Im going to be like this the rest of my life which seems unbearable to me.

Actually yesterday I was able to drive down to the grocery store on my own and did good. So in some ways it has gotten better yet worse since the other foot is doing the same thing.

Plus since the doctor I had been seeing cant figure out whats wrong their solution was for me to do rehabilitation exercises and Im not sure thats the best idea if I have injured arteries.
So Im going back to my first doctor to try the cortisone shots in case its pinched nerves, and if it is it will be fixed. I just was afraid to get those at first since I didnt know what it was. But they did some nerve tests and didnt think it was that. I want to go ahead and have the shots just to rule that out since it might be my only hope.

Then Ive got all sorts of other problems too which is why I was pacing around the house worrying in the first place. But alot of good that did me, right? it just made things worse for me.

Claudia

 

[Eric B]

well you are certainly entitled to your opinion.

I didnt know that any doctrine that disagrees with yours was considered to be "propaganda".

I just always viewed it as Biblical.

sorry.

Uh, that IS the very definition of it:
From Wiktionary:
propaganda
speech or writing advancing one's cause or ideas, or denouncing one's opponents.

That is exactly what that material is. (and of course, evetryone who does this under the premise of being Biblical thinks it's biblical).
Once again, sorry I coudn't think of a nicer sounding word, but it does fit the bill on all counts.

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

Originally posted by Claudia_T:
is Gerhard for or against the Sabbath? One minute he sounds like hes for it and then next minute he isnt

I could ask you the same question, dear ClaudiaT.

If you keep or believe the Sabbath for the same reason the Jews do - the Law and nothing but the Law; creation and nothing but creation - you're in actual fact 'against the Sabbath' for its only valid Christian reason ( the reason why the Church at large believes Sunday - by mistake ) namely, the resurrection of Jesus from the dead on it. As Karl Barth has said, what makes this day this peculiarly meaningful day (he, speaking of Sunday, of course; I, speaking of the Seventh Day Sabbath), is what happened on it an to it".
What happened, was Jesus' resurrection.

And what Bible study has shown me, was just this result - august and glorious - concerning the Sabbath of the Lord your God - NOT concerning Sunday!

 

[rbell]

Claudia,

We've had differences in interpretation and some pretty animated (though between us, amiable) discussions.

But pain is a booger to live with. Sorry that you've been dealing with it.

May God heal your foot, and give you peace of mind.

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

Originally posted by Claudia_T:
If a Jew becomes a Christian then when Paul kept the Sabbath why dont you think we need to? If he was a Christian. This isnt making any sense to me

'We' - Christian believers - need to for no reason at all but the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead. I find in the whole New Testament no reason besides why the Church kept the Sabbath Day - why the the NT has no word to say about it but this!

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

Originally posted by DHK:
Luke 24:1-2 Now upon the first day of the week, very early in the morning, they came unto the sepulchre, bringing the spices which they had prepared, and certain others with them. And they found the stone rolled away from the sepulchre.

Mark 16:1-2 And when the sabbath was past, Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James, and Salome, had bought sweet spices, that they might come and anoint him. And very early in the morning the first day of the week, they came unto the sepulchre at the rising of the sun.

Scripture doesn't contradict itself. The Sabbath was past. Christ arose on the first day of the week--Sunday. The Sabbath is not binding on the Christian. For sake of argument, if he did rise on the Sabbath, there is still no command to keep the Sabbath for the Christian. It is a sign of the covenant between Jehovah and the nation of Israel and their generations forever. Check Exodus 31.
DHK

You are blind to the fact of which mention is being made here. Not a word to be read here about the resurrection. The ONLY Scripture describing the actual events that surrounded the resurrection is Matthew 28:1.

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

As to your last paragraph,

Absolutely so! But you, a covenantal believer, should realise the covenantal truth contained in all this: It is eschatological of Jesus Christ - and so became fulfilled and actuallised - one might truly say, 'legalised' - first and originally, in and through Christ, so that also the Seventh Day Sabbath only received its eschatological, prophetic, promised, covenantal meaning and essence and glory, first in Jesus Christ. And I can refer to you GREAT Calvinists who all so argue about the Sabbath - trying to justify the Sunday. Ironic, perplexing, astonishing, is all I can say.

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

Originally posted by Claudia_T:
God has pronounced a special blessing upon all Gentiles who keep the Sabbath (See Isaiah 56:6,7)

This Sabbath blessing is in the prophecy that refers wholly to the Christian dispensation (See Isaiah 56)

Now you're starting to see the light, Claudia!

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

Unfortunately your Church teaches there is no 'symbolism' in the Sabbath. Bacchiocchi tried to deviate from this stance, but got so far as to some philotrophical semblance that could be discovered in the Fourth commandment. When I confronted him to go through with his arguments and apply the wholesome element to the resurrection, he scorned at me. Now I tell you that if not for the final and complete salvation-meaning found and given in the resurrection of Christ from the dead, then all the 'healing ministries' of Jesus specifically of the Sabbath Day, were of no avail and in themselves void of eschatological meaning.

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

Originally posted by Eliyahu:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Eliyahu:

Originally posted by Gerhard Ebersoehn:

Eliyahu,
Every assertion you make is FALSE, one way or the other.
"They collected the money on the first days of the week. ( 1 Cor 16:2)", Correct - so as not to do it on the Sabbath!

"They broke the Bread on the First day of the Week ( Acts 20:7)&gt;&gt; False, false false - so 'translated' as to support Sunday observance. The Greek says they on the first day of the week were together gathered still after having had assembled together for Holy Communion when Paul discussed matters with the disciples mentioned earlier in the same chapter. Conclusion: They had to have gathered the previous day, the Sabbath, for Holy Communion. Thanks, your perversions don't go up!
"You missed the Pentecostal meetings were on Sunday, First fruits day was Sunday."

The first Pentecost (Shavuot) also fell on the Sabbath Day. By co-incidence? Never! By God Almighty's eternal council yes!

1. Do you mean They gathered on Sabbath and then collected the money next day?

2. What you said sounds that they gathered on Sabbath, then continued the gathering to next day, then at that time they collected the money and broke the bread. So, you are claiming two days service.

3. Pentecost and Day of Firstfruits fell on the first day of the week always. Study Lev 23 more. </font>

I mean they normally went to Church on Sabbath, then "PRIVATELY put aside" - for future collection - their contributions; which would be collected in one sum when Paul would visit.