Some thoughts on the Biblical Shabbat - Sabbath

As has already been pointed out - the Hebrews 4 text says it did not profit them "Because it was not united by faith by those who heard" - this is true of "Some of them" ... "Therefore it remains for SOME to enter to His rest" Heb 4:6.

Why "some" ? Because chapter 11 of this same book will show the giants of "Faith" of the OT - including those who heard the Gospel.

The book of Hebrews only shows lack of rest for those without faith, but for ALL it shows the Gospel was preached to them - and for the great host of OT saints shown in Hebrews chapter 11 it explicitly shows them to be giants of faith "Of whom the world was not worthy" Heb 11:38

In fact it shows Noah to have participated in the great Gospel theme of "righteousness by faith", long before there even was a Jew.

In Christ,

Bob

[ December 14, 2002, 12:11 AM: Message edited by: BobRyan ]

 

Demonstrate from the New Testament the command for the believer to keep the Sabbath.

It's in the OT. There's nothing in the NT that commands Christians to abandon the Sabbath.

Some will quote Gal2:19 (For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God), to which someone can counterargue 1Cor7:19 (...keeping the Commandments of God is what matters) or Rev14:12 (Here is the patience of the saints... who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus).

Some will quote Col2:16 (Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days), which I counter does not abandon the Sabbath, but that HOW one keeps the sabbath should not be judged by outsiders. It's an expansion of Jesus getting berated for doing God's work on the Sabbath, to which Jesus replies "the Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath". Again, Jesus doesn't abandon the Sabbath, he spmily puts it into perspective.

 

Jesus kept the Sabbath, only as far as the O.T. law was concerned, not Rabbinical law. He did that because the age of law had not entirely passed yet. Once he died on the cross, and rose again, believers first met every day, and then began to meet primarily on the first day of the week in remembrance of the ressurection. That much can be demonstrated from Scripture. It can also be demonstrated from Scripture that no day is holier than any other day, and that any day is acceptable to worship on, including the Sabbath, or Sunday, or Monday, etc. It really doesn't matter to God. The principle in Creation was to take one day out of seven for rest, not necssarily the Sabbath. The Sabbath was set aside exclusively for the Jewish nation (Exodus 31).
DHK

[ December 05, 2002, 01:55 PM: Message edited by: DHK ]

 

Once he died on the cross, and rose again, believers first met every day, and then began to meet primarily on the first day of the week in remembrance of the ressurection. That much can be demonstrated from Scripture. It can also be demonstrated from Scripture that no day is holier than any other day, and that any day is acceptable to worship on, including the Sabbath, or Sunday, or Monday, etc. It really doesn't matter to God. The principle in Creation was to take one day out of seven for rest, not necssarily the Sabbath.

Generally, I agree with you. I think the jist of the NT discussions about the Sabbath are not to abandon it, but that it doesn't matter if it's Saturday, Sunday, or from Sundown to Sundown, etc. The point is to take one day in seven to rest, and that the rest should be one of thanks and devotion to God. My first post here was the concern that there are countless Christians who don't honor this command from God. God who created Man made him to require a day of rest once every seven days. Anyone who's worked eight days straight without a day off can attest to that. If we don't follow the manual, the car's gonna break down!!! From everything I know, we didn't get new bodies after Jesus' ressurrection. They're the same bodies that are governed by the Ten Commandments.

 

Actually the point made in Hebrews 11 is that Noah was a saint saved under the One Gospel (Gal 1:6-9) doctrine of "Righteousness by Faith".

This means that all attempts to inject a "two-gospel" model in to scripture fails as Hebrews 4 points out explicitly "WE have had the Gospel preached to us JUST as THEY also". 4:1.

There is no evidence "at all" that Abraham did not take God's name in vain or that he did not covet.

Arguments such as those - are arguing "from the void" of what the text "Does not say".

IF we could "discover" that whenever the law against taking God's name in vain is not applied to someone - then they "must have broken it" - then we would have a "very different Bible" indeed. But such a "rule" is never employed in exegetically based Bible studies.

Neither can it be argued that if one of the 10 commandments is not mentioned in Malachi - that the people of that day - stopped keeping the 10 commandments.

Neither can it be argued that the "Laws, Statutes and Commandments" that God speaks of in Genesis 26:5 are exhaustively spelled out prior to Genesis 26. For example in Genesis 7:2 the law regarding clean and unclean animals is mentioned but is not "spelled out" - not "defined" until Lev 11.

Instead of closing our eyes to this - we observe it and learn. So that God's Holy Seventh Day memorial of creation first mentioned in Genesis 2:2-3 and letter "spelled out" in Exodus 20 is accepted in the same way. And we can "Believe Christ" when He states that "the Sabbath was Made for Man" Mark 2:27.

In Christ,

Bob

[ December 13, 2002, 09:22 PM: Message edited by: BobRyan ]

 

Certainly true of Abraham and of Moses and of David and of every OT Sabbath-keeping saint listed in Hebrews 11.

"Rebellion" against God is never "taught" in the Gospel - nor is "obedience to God" condemned by God's own model of salvation. Obedience is the fruit of salvation such that our faith "Establishes the Law" Romans 3:31.

Because of that alone - Paul can say of God's method of justification "It is not the Hearers of the Law that are Just before God but the Doers of the Law will be Justified" Romans 2:13.

So all those OT saints were not saved "By their obedience" - but their obedience to God - our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ - was the "fruit" (Matt 7) of the transforming - Gospel power of the Holy Spirit in creating in them a New Heart - in writing the law upon their heart as the New Covenant promises.

As is honoring one's Father and Mother a "work" - and so also is loving God with all of our heart a "Work" Deut 6:5 as well as loving our Neighbor as ourself a "work" Lev 19:18. But all this "work" of the born-again saint - is done through God the Holy Spirit working in us - writing His Law upon the heart.

In Christ,

Bob

 

#1. There is no statement in all of scripture that says "the age of law had entirely passed".

#2. You are very correct in arguing that ALL that Christ spoke in the 4 Gospels was Fully "under the Law" as it was pre-cross and can not possibly be contrued as anti-God or anti-God's-Law.

When Christ says "IF you Love Me Keep My Commandments" John 14:14 - this is spoken to God's saints "Pre-Cross" in the fullness of the 10 Commandment obligation for the saints of God.

No question - even if one uses the model that you propose.

And as Christ states in Matt 28 the Gospel message is to go out "Teaching them to observe All things that I have commanded you". Christ IS God - His commandments are "God's Commandments" in every respect.

Believers "met" all through history on days other than God's seventh-day Holy Day - memorial of Creation. That never "abolished" His own Holy day that He made holy in Genesis 2:3.

There is no statement in all of scripture that "the saints met primarily on day one".

There are more "Sabbath after Sabbath" meetings of believers recorded in the NT than "day one after day one" meetings.

Actually no such thing can be demonstrated from scripture. Instead scripture demonstrates that God Himself "Sanctified the Seventh-day and Made it Holy" Exodus 20:11 by His actions in Genesis 2:3. In Fact in Exodus 20:11 it is God Himself speakig of that Genesis 2:3 act - saying that it was That Act that made the Day Holy.

Arguing "oh no it did not" would be a direct contradiction of the text of scripture.

Arguing that "Well then it is not to be continued as God's Own Holy day after the cross" is a direct issue with Isaiah 66 that states that EVEN in the New Earth of Rev 21 - "From Sabbath to Sabbath All Mankind shall come before Me to Worship".

There is no way to get scripture to contradict itsefl on these points.

First of all - in that Isaiah 66 context you can easily argue that we may come before God and worship as often as we like - even then. But to argue that rebellion against God's Sabbath as described in Isaiah 66 - regarding the New Earth - is going to be "acceptable" to God - does not fit with the text of scripture.

And it is Christ Himself that argues that God Made the Sabbath "for mankind" Mark 2:27.

It is a blessing that we will continue to enjoy throughout all eternity in the New Heavens and New Earth. God's own Holy day of Gen 2:3 - the memorial of His creative work - made a holy day in that Gen 2:2-3 event - and the continued call for all mankind to "Worship Him who made the heavens and the earth and sea and the springs of water" Rev 14:7 as Exodus 20 instructs.

In Christ,

Bob

 

In all of your above responses you have still avoided the original question here. You have yet to demonstrate any where in the New Testament any command for the believer to keep the Sabbath.
Why are you avoiding the issue here?
DHK

 

As has already been stated - repeatedly regarding the 10 commandments in the NT - and specifically the Sabbath commanded for NT saints..

There REMAINS therefore a Sabbath Rest for the People of God Hebrews 4:9

So Speak and Act as those who are to be Judged by the Law of Liberty" James 2:12

And As Christ said - "The Sabbath was MADE for MANKIND" Mark 2:27

Scripture declares "From Sabbath to Sabbath shall ALL MANKIND come before me to Worship" Isaiah 66:23

Christ Himself delcares to the saints "IF you love Me KEEP My Commandments" John 14:14.

The idea that this NT statement of Christ, before the Cross did not include His own 4th commandment memorial of Creation regarding the day that He made Holy in GEn 2:3 - can not be sustained in the light of scripture.

Of course some will object saying that most of these are merely the words of Christ - God the Son. I readily admit that I am relying upon His NT word and in fact ALL of scripture for this point.

In Christ,

Bob

[ December 14, 2002, 12:08 AM: Message edited by: BobRyan ]

 

Rightly divide the Word of truth. The rest that the author of Hebrews is speaking of is Jesus Christ Himself. "Come unto me all ye that labor and are heavy laden and I will give you rest." "Enter into my rest." Christ is our Sabbath. He is our Rest. It is not talking of a day; rather a person: the Lord Jesus Christ--He is the only one that can give you rest. That is the point that the author of Hebrews was making.

So Speak and Act as those who are to be Judged by the Law of Liberty" James 2:12
And what has the "law of liberty" got to do with the Sabbath day? James never mentioned the Sabbath day at all did he?

Rom.8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:

Verse two speaks of a law of liberty--law of the Spirit of life. That law has made me free from the law of sin and death. What law? The law of sin and death, explained in verse three: "what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh." What law was that? It was the Mosaic law. It was keeping the Sabbath, and other laws specifically directed to the Jews. The law could not save; so God sent His Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, He condemned sin in the flesh.
Rom.8:4 "That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us." The righteousness of the is fulfilled. I do not have to keep that law any longer. The Sabbath no longer applies.

And As Christ said - "The Sabbath was MADE for MANKIND" Mark 2:27
Yes, it was made for man. First, He was speaking pre-cross to the Pharisees. Second, the point that He was making was that the Sabbath was for man, i.e., for man's benefit, not for man to be a slave to. The Pharisees had put even more restrictions on the Sabbath than there were in the Old Testament Law. The Jews had become slaves of the Sabbath. Jesus said this was wrong. The Sabbath was made FOR man, not the other way around. You still have it "the other way around." You want to make man a slave to the Sabbath Day, which even then Christ said was unnecessary.

Scripture declares "From Sabbath to Sabbath shall ALL MANKIND come before me to Worship" Isaiah 66:23
Again, rightly divide the Word of Truth. What does the chapter talk about? What is its context. When will this occur. It is not speaking of the present time is it? The verb "shall" is future. It is speaking of a future event, when Christ shall come and set up his Millennial Kingdom on earth. The Jews as a nation will be saved. Christ will rule with a rod of iron. And yes the Sabbath at that time will be reinstituted. That has nothing to do with the here and now. Read through the whole chapter. Are the other events mentioned concerning the lion, the lamb, and the adders, taking place today?

Christ Himself delcares to the saints "IF you love Me KEEP My Commandments" John 14:14.
What commandments was He speaking of? The Ten Commandments? I hardly think so!

John 13:34 A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another.
35 By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another.

His commandments centered around love, not the law.

The idea that this NT statement of Christ, before the Cross did not include His own 4th commandment memorial of Creation regarding the day that He made Holy in GEn 2:3 - can not be sustained in the light of scripture.
More accurately keeping the fourth commandment by New Testament beleivers cannot be sustained by Scripture.

Of course some will object saying that most of these are merely the words of Christ - God the Son. I readily admit that I am relying upon His NT word and in fact ALL of scripture for this point.
You are not relying on a proper harmonization of Scripture passages. There is a good amount of Scripture concerning the Sabbath that you conveniently choose to ignore, especially when Paul (in Col.2:16,17) refers to the Sabbath as simply a shadow of things to come. It is only a shadow, an image, and not the real thing. The real thing is explained in Hebrews 4. Jesus is our Sabbath. The Sabbath Day itself was just a shadow, an image of that which was to come. We are to enter into His rest, for the Sabbath Day could never give the Perfect peace (rest) that Jesus alone gives.
DHK

[ December 14, 2002, 02:23 AM: Message edited by: DHK ]

 

There REMAINS therefore a Sabbath Rest for the People of God Hebrews 4:9

Rightly dividing the word of truth means not injecting into the text "Christ is the Sabbath" as the attmept above seems to "want" to do.

the Hebrews 4 text stands as it reads - there DOES "REMAIN - a Sabbath rest for the people of God".

Trying to "turn that INTO - there remains therefore a Jesus Christ for the people of God" would mean that BOTH the OT and NT saint STILL have Jesus Christ JUST as they STILL have Sabbath.

Your case is not resolved with that solution. Better to just stick with the text as it reads.

-----------------------------

Matt 11 "Come unto me all ye that labor and are heavy laden and I will give you rest."

And so we see - BEFORE the cross (Matt 11) Christ is STILL offering rest - and the Sabbath is Fully in force - EVEN by the most law-destroying models that have been proposed. There was no conflict between the creator - Jesus Christ, and His own Creation memorial - holy Seventh-day - Not even Before the cross, much less afterwards.

Rightly dividing the word of truth means that we find unity and harmony in scripture and in this case it shines forth brilliantly. Christ - Before the Cross - Before nailing anything to the cross, is offering Rest - AND is not in any way hindered by His Own Memorial of His own Creative Acts. His own Holy Day does nothing to oppose Him - OT or NT. Perfect harmony between the rest of the Creator and the Holy Day that the Creator made to "mankind".

In Christ,

Bob

 

So Speak and Act as those who are to be Judged by the Law of Liberty" James 2:12

James tells us IN the text. The "Law of Liberty" IS that Unit of law that contains the commandments of God - "Do not commit adultery, Do not murder". James 2: 11

And of that Entire Unit - James says "He who stumbles in ONE point has become guilty of ALL" James 2:10. The ENTIRE unit is being violated by breaking even ONE of the commandments.

So - the question is asked - and What does that Law of Liberty - the 10 commandments - have to do with the Sabbath? What indeed.

James also quotes One of the commandments of the "Royal Law" James 2:8 - as found in Lev 19:18.

The other one (as Christ states) is the commandment found in Deut 6:5 telling us to Love God with all of our hearts.

So it is BOTH the Law of Love AND the 10 Commandment Law of Liberty that James quotes.

Paul quotes this in Ephesians 6:1-2 and in Romans 7:7-10.

The Unit of Law is referenced in both Paul and James' writings "he who breaks one is Guilty of ALL" according to James, and Paul states in Ephesians 6 - that the 5th commandment "is the First commandment with a promise". The Unit continues to be recognized authorotatively in the NT.

We are free to "observe" all of this as it reads "In the text" and rejoice that the Creator's own Holy Day - "made For mankind" continues to bless us today - as it did in Gen 2:2-3.

Those who argue that the commandm against taking God's name in vain is "the law of death" - or that the Law regarding the Creator's own memorial of creation "made FOR mankind" was given for mankind's "Death" are not dividing accurately the word of truth.

They may rejoice that the 10 commandments are no longer being kept by some Christians - but this is not the position Paul takes. Rather Paul states "We Establish the LAw by faith rather than making it Void by Faith" Rom 3:31.

The law was never given as a "Savior" - but neither is rebellion against God's Law a "sign" of submitting to God. God's Law is "Holy Just and good" according to Paul (Romans 7) - it is what "Defines sin" -- "THou shalt no kill..thou shalt not steal.." etc. It authorotatively points to our need of salvation since by its definition we are sinners. The Law of God defines sin - and shows us to be sinners.


So - shall we now make Void the Law of God through faith - God Forbid - Rather we Establish the Law Rom 3:31.

For it is Not the hearers that are just before God - but the Doers of the Law will be Justified. Rom 2:13

In Christ,

Bob

 

And As Christ said - "The Sabbath was MADE for MANKIND" Mark 2:27

Agreed - as I said some will object to my quoting the words of Christ in the Gospels - but much of the support does come from there.

"The Sabbath was Made for Mankind" Mark 2:27 refernces that Gen 1-2:3 scenario where Both were made in the same Week.

Agreed - God have it to mankind as a blessing - as the memorial of His creation. "Worship Him who Made the Heavens and the Earth and the Sea" Rev 14:7 - and even after the cross we see "From Sabbath to Sabbath.. Shall ALL mankind come bofore me to worship" - Isaiah 66. What a blessing indeed.

Hardly - a "law of death" for our destruction. But at the same time, it does show that by our rebellion against it - we "are sinners" - the law defines righteousness and our rebellion against it - shows us to be sinners.

And as you noted in your message - the Jews had corrupted both the Sabbath and much of the Law and Religion that God ordained. Christ on the other hand - perfectly restored and fulfilled that which His own perfect Law required. HE Perfectly loved God and Perfectly Loved man and Perfectly worshipped God, perfectly honoring His Own memorial of His Own Creator work - Perfectly restoring the "Blessing" aspect of the Sabbath as it was intended "For Mankind" since it's making.

In Christ,

Bob

 

Scripture declares "From Sabbath to Sabbath shall ALL MANKIND come before me to Worship" Isaiah 66:23

Isaiah 66 speaks of the "New Heavens and New Earth" that we find in Rev 21:1-3. A time "After" the Cross - a NT period of time post cross where ALL mankind will come before God to worhip - and so we see a future time when EVEN those who today reject the Creator's memorial of Creation - will one day come before God and worship along with "ALL mankind" -- "From Sabbath to Sabbath".

Post Cross. NT saints - worshipping God.

There is no mention of a "Millenial Kingdom" here - but in Rev 21 where we "see" the timeline worked out - it is clearly "after the 1000 years of Rev 20" that we find the "New Heavens and New Earth" of Rev 21.

Are you saying that what you are now calling the "law of death" will come back in the future?

You see - even by your own model - the Sabbath DOES apply after the cross "to ALL mankind" you are simply looking for a brief segment of time where it does not apply and you are seeking to place the Rev 21 "New Heaven and New Earth" as an event that happens in the middle of Rev 20's 1000 years.

But scripture simply does not support such efforts.

In Christ,

Bob

[ December 15, 2002, 05:39 PM: Message edited by: BobRyan ]

 

Christ never perfectly restored the Sabbath Day. Take a look around you. Do all men worship the Sabbath Day perfectly? Hardly! He became our Sabbath for us. He is our Sabbath. He is not a day, but a rest. He is our rest; we enter into his rest when we are saved. He alone can give perfect rest by trusting in His sacrificial work by faith alone. Then we enter into His rest--not a day; but a person, the person of Jesus Christ. We are in Him, and He in us.
DHK

 

Christ Himself delcares to the saints "IF you love Me KEEP My Commandments" John 14:14.

Obviously - since He had not died on the cross - nothing at all of God's Commandments "could" have been abolished at that John 14 time EVEN by the most law-destroying models proposed today.

And Christ had already stated that ALL that He spoke was from the Father - there is No contradiction between the commandments of Christ and His Father. In fact He claims that His word is simply the commandment of His Father Given to Him.

He who is the same yesterday, today and forever says (John 12:47-50) it is the Father Commandments that are being preached by Christ. "the Father Himself who sent Me has given Me commandment, what to say and what to speak"

The Law of Love Given by Christ in the OT - Deut 6:5 Love for God and Lev 19:18 Love for your neighber form the "Foundation" for the 10 commandments that He spoke directly.

He is the same yesterday today and forever! Heb 13.

In Christ,

Bob

[ December 15, 2002, 08:24 PM: Message edited by: BobRyan ]