Soteriology 101

[SovereignGrace]

No Van, I did not add ever. I just take it as it says. It says none seek after God. You dodged by not answering how you reconcile that with your view of the other passage. I believe you like to call that obfuscation?

Taint so!

 

[Van]

No Van, I did not add ever. I just take it as it says. It says none seek after God. You dodged by not answering how you reconcile that with your view of the other passage. I believe you like to call that obfuscation?

No matter, if your interpretation is not "no one ever seeks God" then why object to no one seeks God while sinning? And note the reference to other passages, undefined. This is all they have, absurdity followed by falsehood.

Our faith is based on God's revelatory grace, but God crediting our faith as righteousness is a pure gift of grace. (Romans 4:23-24)

Rom 4:23-24
Now not for his [Abraham's] sake only was it written [God's revelation] that it was credited to him, but for our sake also, to whom it will be credited, to us who believe in Him who raised Jesus our Lord from the dead,

Think about this folks, how did we benefit by having our faith credited as righteousness if we are unable to seek God and trust Christ? Every time you see "through faith" in scripture, think "therefore Calvinism is wrong."

 

[Reformed1689]

No matter, if your interpretation is not "no one ever seeks God" then why object to no one seeks God while sinning? And note the reference to other passages, undefined. This is all they have, absurdity followed by falsehood.

Our faith is based on God's revelatory grace, but God crediting our faith as righteousness is a pure gift of grace. (Romans 4:23-24)

Rom 4:23-24
Now not for his [Abraham's] sake only was it written [God's revelation] that it was credited to him, but for our sake also, to whom it will be credited, to us who believe in Him who raised Jesus our Lord from the dead,

Think about this folks, how did we benefit by having our faith credited as righteousness if we are unable to seek God and trust Christ? Every time you see "through faith" in scripture, think "therefore Calvinism is wrong."

And you still have no intention of answering the question I see. I do not put in no one seeks God while sinning because THAT IS NOT WHAT IT SAYS.

 

[Reformed1689]

Actua

Note that Calvinists always fall back to hurling insults and undefined phrases.

Folks, Calvinism is not supported in scripture, full stop.

Actually I did not hurl an insult, I asked a legitimate question as to why you add the words "while sinning" to Scripture and you refuse to answer.

 

[Yeshua1]

Sir your claim is totally false. Fallen and unregenerate people are sometimes capable of searching for God after experiencing God's revelatory grace. Total Spiritual Inability is false doctrine.

How were we chosen "through faith in the truth" if before being chosen for salvation we were incapable of trusting in God's revelation? No Calvinist has a rational answer.

Prevenient Grace is a fiction to counter the fiction of total spiritual inability. If you discard total spiritual inability, then there is no need to invent "prevenient grace" to overcome it.

Isaiah and Paul both stated NONE seek after God on their own, so trust them before you on thnis issue!

 

[Van]

And you still have no intention of answering the question I see. I do not put in no one seeks God while sinning because THAT IS NOT WHAT IT SAYS.

I do not put in no one ever seeks God because THAT IS NOT WHAT IT SAYS.

 

[Van]

Actua

Actually I did not hurl an insult, I asked a legitimate question as to why you add the words "while sinning" to Scripture and you refuse to answer.

The added words interpret the open ended ambiguous phrase, just as Calvinism interprets the phrase by adding the qualification ever or at any time. For you to continue to pretend your interpretation is the only one possible demonstrates the use of absurdity in defense of falsehood, but I suspect you already knew that...

 

[AustinC]

No matter, if your interpretation is not "no one ever seeks God" then why object to no one seeks God while sinning? And note the reference to other passages, undefined. This is all they have, absurdity followed by falsehood.

Our faith is based on God's revelatory grace, but God crediting our faith as righteousness is a pure gift of grace. (Romans 4:23-24)

Rom 4:23-24
Now not for his [Abraham's] sake only was it written [God's revelation] that it was credited to him, but for our sake also, to whom it will be credited, to us who believe in Him who raised Jesus our Lord from the dead,

Think about this folks, how did we benefit by having our faith credited as righteousness if we are unable to seek God and trust Christ? Every time you see "through faith" in scripture, think "therefore Calvinism is wrong."

Since, outside of Christ, we are slaves to sin, can there ever be a time when the unregenerate are not sinning or in sin?

 

[Van]

Isaiah and Paul both stated NONE seek after God on their own, so trust them before you on thnis issue!

Neither Isaiah nor Paul state none seek God at any time. But it is clear none seek God at all times, thus we are all under sin.

In order to sustain the fiction that no one ever seeks God, several verses must be rewritten.

Psalm 24:6
Such is the generation of those who seek him,
who seek the face of the God of Jacob. Selah

Isaiah 65:1
“I permitted Myself to be sought by those who did not ask for Me;
I permitted Myself to be found by those who did not seek Me.
I said, ‘Here am I, here am I,’
To a nation which did not call on My name.

 

[Van]

Since, outside of Christ, we are slaves to sin, can there ever be a time when the unregenerate are not sinning or in sin?

Nice touch, in sin! Of course all in Adam were made sinners and therefore are in a sinful state, separated from God. But we are by grace saved through or by reason of faith. Calvinism claims we were not saved through faith but saved then given faith. So Calvinists must redefine as liberals every place scripture indicated we were saved through or by reason of faith. Go figure

 

[Van]

Faith alone refers to faithful faith, the faith from which faithfulness flows, or using James illustration, live faith not dead faith. Thus actual faith, of the kind God might choose to credit as righteousness, includes a commitment to stop going our own way and to strive to follow Christ upon the paths of righteousness. (1 Peter 2:21)

1 Peter 2:21
For you have been called for this purpose [suffer for doing right] because Christ also suffered for you, leaving you an example, so that you would follow in His steps,

We were called (placed into Christ spiritually) for the purpose of faithful service. Thus both repentance and belief in God and His Christ are components of the faith God credits as righteousness. Easy Believism is false doctrine. If our faith lacks the commitment to strive to follow Christ, then God might not credit it as righteousness, because our dead faith would not meet the purpose of God's chosen people.

 

[Reformed1689]

The added words interpret the open ended ambiguous phrase, just as Calvinism interprets the phrase by adding the qualification ever or at any time. For you to continue to pretend your interpretation is the only one possible demonstrates the use of absurdity in defense of falsehood, but I suspect you already knew that...

No, I'm not adding anything, I'm simply taking it at face value.

 

[Reformed1689]

I do not put in no one ever seeks God because THAT IS NOT WHAT IT SAYS.

Correct, it says no one seeks God. Without qualification. THe only one of us adding something and not taking at face value is you by adding when sinning which is nowhere to be found in the passage.

 

[AustinC]

Nice touch, in sin! Of course all in Adam were made sinners and therefore are in a sinful state, separated from God. But we are by grace saved through or by reason of faith. Calvinism claims we were not saved through faith but saved then given faith. So Calvinists must redefine as liberals every place scripture indicated we were saved through or by reason of faith. Go figure

Well...twice Paul says we are saved by grace. It's pretty simple. Paul doesn't say we are saved by our faith. He says saved by grace. In the second statement he adds "through faith, not of yourself lest anyone should boast." Through faith does not mean "because of faith."

 

[Reformed1689]

The reason Van has to add "when sinning" into the passage is because, without it, his viewpoint completely crumbles.

 

[Van]

No, I'm not adding anything, I'm simply taking it at face value.

Note the denial of truth, no one seeks God is said to have a face value of no one ever seeks God, when verse after verse says people seek God some of the time.

 

[Van]

Correct, it says no one seeks God. Without qualification. THe only one of us adding something and not taking at face value is you by adding when sinning which is nowhere to be found in the passage.

Utter falsehood, Calvinism claims Total Spiritual Inability results in no unregenerate ever seeking God. Calvinists defend Calvinism by denying its bogus views...

 

[Yeshua1]

Note the denial of truth, no one seeks God is said to have a face value of no one ever seeks God, when verse after verse says people seek God some of the time.

The ones who preferred to stay in darkness when the light of Christ came disagree!

 

[Van]

Well...twice Paul says we are saved by grace. It's pretty simple. Paul doesn't say we are saved by our faith. He says saved by grace. In the second statement he adds "through faith, not of yourself lest anyone should boast." Through faith does not mean "because of faith."

Utter nonsense, through or by reason of faith does mean by reason of faith. Liberals redefine the very meaning of words...

 

[Yeshua1]

Utter nonsense, through or by reason of faith does mean by reason of faith. Liberals redefine the very meaning of words...

So we Calvinists teach a false Gospel and are liberals?