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Soteriology 101

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SavedByGrace

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Once again Calvinists try to change the subject rather than address the fact "through" means "by reason of" in Ephesians 2:8.

Greek 101, the preposition διά, when used with the genitive, has the basic meaning, "through"; when used with the accusative, "because of". Different meanings.
 

SavedByGrace

Well-Known Member
Says repent and believe the Gospel. Notice it does not say anything about salvation does it? No.

so what do you think that Jesus is referring to here, if not salvation? Peter tells those who asked him in Acts, "what must we DO" (2:37), "REPENT...for the forgiveness of your sins" (38). Are you saying that the context here is not salvation? Notice, Peter does not even mention "faith", so are these thousands all lost and gone to hell?
 

Van

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Are there English translations that do translate dia sometimes as "by reason of?" Yes. So the unstudied claim no body translates dia that way is an overstatement.
 

SavedByGrace

Well-Known Member
Are there English translations that do translate dia sometimes as "by reason of?" Yes. So the unstudied claim no body translates dia that way is an overstatement.

that is not in dispute. but the fact that you are trying to use the prepositon as though it is always used with one case, which is incorrect!
 

Van

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Greek 101, the preposition διά, when used with the genitive, has the basic meaning, "through"; when used with the accusative, "because of". Different meanings.
I am sorry but I posted the link to the lexicon that gives the instrumentality meanings for "dia."
 
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Van

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that is not in dispute. but the fact that you are trying to use the preposition as though it is always used with one case, which is incorrect!
Yet another misrepresentation of my view? Did I address multiple meanings, i.e. positionally and instrumentality? Yes.
 

SavedByGrace

Well-Known Member
I am sorry but I posted the link to the lexicon that gives the instrumentality meanings for "dia." Try its use with a "dative."

here we go yet again, Van making up Greek grammar as he goes along :rolleyes:

the Greek preposition διά is use only with TWO cases, the genitive and the accusative, NOT dative!

Lesson 9
 

Van

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here we go yet again, Van making up Greek grammar as he goes along :rolleyes:

the Greek preposition διά is use only with TWO cases, the genitive and the accusative, NOT dative!

Lesson 9
Yes my memory failed me. Care to actually address that "dia" is translated as "by reason of" many times and in many versions. Thus the claim the meaning is not "by means of" cannot be supported grammatically, but must be supported or not contextually. Please address what "through faith" means in Ephesians 2:8 other than "by reason of."
 

SavedByGrace

Well-Known Member
Yes my memory failed me. Care to actually address that "dia" is translated as "by reason of" many times and in many versions. Thus the claim the meaning is not "by means of" cannot be supported grammatically, but must be supported or not contextually. Please address what "through faith" means in Ephesians 2:8 other than "by reason of."

How many English Bible Versions translate "by reason of"?

Ephesians 2:8 Parallel: For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
 

SavedByGrace

Well-Known Member
Yes my memory failed me. Care to actually address that "dia" is translated as "by reason of" many times and in many versions. Thus the claim the meaning is not "by means of" cannot be supported grammatically, but must be supported or not contextually. Please address what "through faith" means in Ephesians 2:8 other than "by reason of."

διά when used in Ephesians 2:8, is used with the genitive, and has the meaning here, "by means of" the faith of the repentant sinner. It is their faith that they place in the Lord Jesus Christ, that saves them. This faith comes from hearing of the Word of God, as Paul tells us in Romans 10.
 

Yeshua1

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διά when used in Ephesians 2:8, is used with the genitive, and has the meaning here, "by means of" the faith of the repentant sinner. It is their faith that they place in the Lord Jesus Christ, that saves them. This faith comes from hearing of the Word of God, as Paul tells us in Romans 10.
The object of their faith saves them though!
 

37818

Well-Known Member
διά when used in Ephesians 2:8, is used with the genitive, and has the meaning here, "by means of" the faith of the repentant sinner. It is their faith that they place in the Lord Jesus Christ, that saves them. This faith comes from hearing of the Word of God, as Paul tells us in Romans 10.
It is by means of faith, yes. But it by grace, that not of yourselves. it s the gift of God that saves them. The faith is not the gift, being saved is the gift.
 
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Yeshua1

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It is by means of faith, yes. But it by grace, that not of yourselves. it s the gift of God that saves them. The faith is not the gift, being saved is the gift.
The entire salvation package is a gift from God towards us!
 
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