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Soteriology 101

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Van

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Here are some of the key points of Biblical Salvation.

1) “For by grace you have been saved through faith," (Ephesians 2:8) teaches our salvation is through or by reason of faith. Any faith? Nope, only the individuals faith in Christ Jesus, if credited as righteousness by God. Thus some, in their unregenerate state seek God some of the time when they put their trust in Christ.

2) The lost cannot do anything to merit or earn salvation, as our faith is a filthy rag to God. When a person puts their trust in Christ, that does not earn or merit or in any way contribute to God's gracious salvation. Salvation depends of God alone. (Romans 9:16)

3) Our faith is based on God's revelatory grace, but God crediting our faith as righteousness is a pure gift of grace. (Romans 4:23-24)

4) The work of the Holy Spirit is to convict humanity of sin, righteousness, and judgement. Thus the gospel of Christ convicts the lost of the sin of unbelief, such as John 3:18, convicts humanity of God's righteousness, even though Christ has returned to the Father, and His birth, sinless life, death, resurrection and coming judgment convicts humanity because of testimony of the New Testament. (John 16:8)

5) Faith alone refers to faithful faith, the faith from which faithfulness flows, or using James illustration, live faith not dead faith. Thus actual faith, of the kind God might choose to credit as righteousness, includes a commitment to stop going our own way and to strive to follow Christ upon the paths of righteousness. (1 Peter 2:21)

6) The call to repent and believe is simultaneous, not sequential. Two sides of the same coin. You don't believe if you don't repent, and you don't repent if you don't believe. (Mark 1:15)

7) Yes, eternal life begins when we are made "alive" together with Christ. And our spiritual eternal life is a prelude to our bodily redemption and physical eternal life. (Ephesians 2:5) (Romans 8:23)
 
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Bible Thumpin n Gun Totin

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Here are some of the key points of Biblical Salvation.
Thus some, in their unregenerate state seek God some of the time when they put their trust in Christ.

Just as an FYI, both Traditional Arminians and Reformed will agree on the following:
-Man is totally depraved and incapable of searching for God on his own.

God must either give Man the ability to believe in that moment (Prevenient Grace) or irresistibly make man believe (Irresistible Grace). Man will not seek on his own.

I am guessing you were just explaining that there are unsaved people amongst God's people in a Church building.
 

Van

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Just as an FYI, both Traditional Arminians and Reformed will agree on the following:
-Man is totally depraved and incapable of searching for God on his own.

God must either give Man the ability to believe in that moment (Prevenient Grace) or irresistibly make man believe (Irresistible Grace). Man will not seek on his own.

I am guessing you were just explaining that there are unsaved people amongst God's people in a Church building.
Sir your claim is totally false. Fallen and unregenerate people are sometimes capable of searching for God after experiencing God's revelatory grace. Total Spiritual Inability is false doctrine.

How were we chosen "through faith in the truth" if before being chosen for salvation we were incapable of trusting in God's revelation? No Calvinist has a rational answer.

Prevenient Grace is a fiction to counter the fiction of total spiritual inability. If you discard total spiritual inability, then there is no need to invent "prevenient grace" to overcome it.
 

Bible Thumpin n Gun Totin

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Fallen and unregenerate people are sometimes capable of searching for God after experiencing God's revelatory grace.
That sounds very similar to Prevenient Grace.

How were we chosen "through faith in the truth" if before being chosen for salvation we were incapable of trusting in God's revelation? No Calvinist has a rational answer.
I am not a Calvinist and am unsure how they would answer. I say that God, in His foreknowledge, knew how each person would respond when given Prevenient Grace, and that God then Saved those whom chose to follow Christ. That would be chosen "through faith in the truth".

Prevenient Grace is a fiction to counter the fiction of total spiritual inability. If you discard total spiritual inability, then there is no need to invent "prevenient grace" to overcome it.
The Bible shows that every aspect of us as humans was corrupted by the Fall. Everything we do is tainted with sin. We are bad trees and we cannot produce good fruit. Romans 3:11 declares that nobody seeks after God: "There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God".

We cannot seek Him. He must draw us to Him.
 

Yeshua1

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Here are some of the key points of Biblical Salvation.

1) “For by grace you have been saved through faith," (Ephesians 2:8) teaches our salvation is through or by reason of faith. Any faith? Nope, only the individuals faith in Christ Jesus, if credited as righteousness by God. Thus some, in their unregenerate state seek God some of the time when they put their trust in Christ.

2) The lost cannot do anything to merit or earn salvation, as our faith is a filthy rag to God. When a person puts their trust in Christ, that does not earn or merit or in any way contribute to God's gracious salvation. Salvation depends of God alone. (Romans 9:16)

3) Our faith is based on God's revelatory grace, but God crediting our faith as righteousness is a pure gift of grace. (Romans 4:23-24)

4) The work of the Holy Spirit is to convict humanity of sin, righteousness, and judgement. Thus the gospel of Christ convicts the lost of the sin of unbelief, such as John 3:18, convicts humanity of God's righteousness, even though Christ has returned to the Father, and His birth, sinless life, death, resurrection and coming judgment convicts humanity because of testimony of the New Testament. (John 16:8)

5) Faith alone refers to faithful faith, the faith from which faithfulness flows, or using James illustration, live faith not dead faith. Thus actual faith, of the kind God might choose to credit as righteousness, includes a commitment to stop going our own way and to strive to follow Christ upon the paths of righteousness. (1 Peter 2:21)

6) The call to repent and believe is simultaneous, not sequential. Two sides of the same coin. You don't believe if you don't repent, and you don't repent if you don't believe. (Mark 1:15)

7) Yes, eternal life begins when we are made "alive" together with Christ. And our spiritual eternal life is a prelude to our bodily redemption and physical eternal life. (Ephesians 2:5) (Romans 8:23)
Your doctrines of Grace are not supported by the scriptures, much better to stick with the accepted 5 points of grace!
 

Van

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That sounds very similar to Prevenient Grace. SNIP

I say that God, in His foreknowledge, knew how each person would respond when given Prevenient Grace, and that God then Saved those whom chose to follow Christ. That would be chosen "through faith in the truth".

The Bible shows that every aspect of us as humans was corrupted by the Fall. Everything we do is tainted with sin. We are bad trees and we cannot produce good fruit. Romans 3:11 declares that nobody seeks after God: "There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God".

We cannot seek Him. He must draw us to Him.

Consider how people were "chosen" for salvation through or by reason of faith in the truth, 2 Thessalonians 2:13. If people were chosen for salvation before creation individually, they did not have faith as they did not exist. In order to cram your view into the text Ephesians 1:4 must be rewritten by liberals to read: God chose us as foreseen individuals with foreseen faith before God created us. In other words God created individuals before He created individuals. A liberal redefinition of creation. But it gets worse:

How were the people of Matthew 23:13 entering the kingdom. Because they have at least some spiritual ability. So what verse says they were "enabled by prevenient grace." None.

Now lets address your verses that your doctrine claims support for total spiritual inability. What verse says we cannot put our faith in God's revelation? You say Romans 3:11. But what does Romans 3:11 say? No one EVER seeks God while unregenerate. Nope. It says no one seeks God and leaves to interpretation whether the meaning is no one seeks God all the time, some of the time or at any time. Certainly Paul's argument is no one seeks God when sinning, therefore we are all under sin. The verse does not say or imply that no one ever seeks God. And if your interpretation, no one ever seeks God were valid, then prevenient grace would be shown a fiction.
 

Van

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This is unbiblical. Nobody seeks after God in their unregenerate state. Romans 3:10-11
This is unbiblical. Nobody seeks after God when sinning, but some do seek after God some of the time like the people of Matthew 23:13.
 

Reformed1689

Well-Known Member
This is unbiblical. Nobody seeks after God when sinning, but some do seek after God some of the time like the people of Matthew 23:13.
That's not what Romans states Van. You added to that. And Matthew 23:13 isn't applicable here as we have discussed numerous times. But you also need to reconcile your view of Matthew 23:13 and Romans 3. It does not say nobody seeks God when sinning. It says none seek God without qualification.
 

Van

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That's not what Romans states Van. You added to that. And Matthew 23:13 isn't applicable here as we have discussed numerous times. But you also need to reconcile your view of Matthew 23:13 and Romans 3. It does not say nobody seeks God when sinning. It says none seek God without qualification.
You add ever to the text and then have the unmitigated gall to claim I added to the text. It does say none seek God without qualification so your "ever" is an unbiblical addition to the text.
 

Yeshua1

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How would you know, I am the one posting the biblical view of Soteriology and you are the one posting "taint so."
You are the one that keeps banging your head against the rock of salvation by doctrines of grace!
 

Van

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Our faith is based on God's revelatory grace, but God crediting our faith as righteousness is a pure gift of grace. (Romans 4:23-24)

Rom 4:23-24
Now not for his [Abraham's] sake only was it written [God's revelation] that it was credited to him, but for our sake also, to whom it will be credited, to us who believe in Him who raised Jesus our Lord from the dead,
 

Reformed1689

Well-Known Member
You add ever to the text and then have the unmitigated gall to claim I added to the text. It does say none seek God without qualification so your "ever" is an unbiblical addition to the text.
No Van, I did not add ever. I just take it as it says. It says none seek after God. You dodged by not answering how you reconcile that with your view of the other passage. I believe you like to call that obfuscation?
 

Van

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You are the one that keeps banging your head against the rock of salvation by doctrines of grace!
Note that Calvinists always fall back to hurling insults and undefined phrases.

Folks, Calvinism is not supported in scripture, full stop.
 
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