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Speaking in Tongues: The Need for Caution

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Deadworm

Member
In the interest of balance, I will share 2 reasons why negative manifestations of glossolalia happen: in charismatic circles:

(1) The forces of evil seek to counterfeit and discredit the Spirit's most effective tools of spiritual growth. I currently lead a small weekly Monday prayer group. The members are Methodists, not Charismatics. Our prayers have brought us astounding miracles like healing when doctors pronounced death sentences and other dramatic answers to prayer. But 2 members of our group were previously members of a large non-Charismatic Spiritual Warfare group that prayed for struggling believers and even performed exorcisms and deliverance ministries. There was a chilling relentless onslaught of evil coincidences that destroyed their lives, caused their pastor to be fired, and drove all but these 2 prayer warriors from church--any church! By challenging Satan in such a direct, inexperienced, and perhaps prideful way, Charismatics, too, can get in way over their heads!

(2) In our obsession with instant gratification, too many Charismatics have little patience with a long period of spiritual longing and seeking that can lead to spectacular spiritual gifts. Their pastors urge them , "Just speak it out and the Spirit will take over!" Such manipulation leads to counterfeit experiences that can create problems similar to playing with a Ouija board. When anyone releases control of their tongues to unseen forces and is unconsciously motivated by the desire for a spiritual drug-like high, any spiritual entity may well take over their tongue. The Holy Spirit doesn't jump just because we crack our whip!

Many Charismatics pride themselves in their successful deliverance ministries. They think that other denominations are full of demon-oppressed people who are blind to their dire condition. In fact, their reckless pressure to induce speaking in tongues often creates the issues of demonic oppression that their deliverance ministry is intended to combat!
 

Yeshua1

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
I have already decisively refuted your claim and you have no answer to my detailed refutation. Note especially that the Greek "glossai," when applied to ecstatic speech (e. g. at the Oracle of Delphi) does NOT refer to coherent human languages, but rather to incoherent gibberish that requires an interpretation. Documentation for the secular evidence is provide by the long scholarly article on the Greek word "glossai" in Kittel's voluminous, multi-volume work, "The Theological Dictionary of the New Testament." You obviously have not consulted this well respected scholarly source.
The tongues were actual languages in the Bible, and there is no real rerason why needed for today!
 

Yeshua1

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
In the interest of balance, I will share 2 reasons why negative manifestations of glossolalia happen: in charismatic circles:

(1) The forces of evil seek to counterfeit and discredit the Spirit's most effective tools of spiritual growth. I currently lead a small weekly Monday prayer group. The members are Methodists, not Charismatics. Our prayers have brought us astounding miracles like healing when doctors pronounced death sentences and other dramatic answers to prayer. But 2 members of our group were previously members of a large non-Charismatic Spiritual Warfare group that prayed for struggling believers and even performed exorcisms and deliverance ministries. There was a chilling relentless onslaught of evil coincidences that destroyed their lives, caused their pastor to be fired, and drove all but these 2 prayer warriors from church--any church! By challenging Satan in such a direct, inexperienced, and perhaps prideful way, Charismatics, too, can get in way over their heads!

(2) In our obsession with instant gratification, too many Charismatics have little patience with a long period of spiritual longing and seeking that can lead to spectacular spiritual gifts. Their pastors urge them , "Just speak it out and the Spirit will take over!" Such manipulation leads to counterfeit experiences that can create problems similar to playing with a Ouija board. When anyone releases control of their tongues to unseen forces and is unconsciously motivated by the desire for a spiritual drug-like high, any spiritual entity may well take over their tongue. The Holy Spirit doesn't jump just because we crack our whip!

Many Charismatics pride themselves in their successful deliverance ministries. They think that other denominations are full of demon-oppressed people who are blind to their dire condition. In fact, their reckless pressure to induce speaking in tongues often creates the issues of demonic oppression that their deliverance ministry is intended to combat!
third reason would be that it is not the Holy spirit, but demonic forces seeting themselves up as being of and from God, as the Holy Spirit CANNOT be the One causing what is happening in "Charasmtic chaos" going on today!
 

robycop3

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
I have already decisively refuted your claim and you have no answer to my detailed refutation. Note especially that the Greek "glossai," when applied to ecstatic speech (e. g. at the Oracle of Delphi) does NOT refer to coherent human languages, but rather to incoherent gibberish that requires an interpretation. Documentation for the secular evidence is provide by the long scholarly article on the Greek word "glossai" in Kittel's voluminous, multi-volume work, "The Theological Dictionary of the New Testament." You obviously have not consulted this well respected scholarly source.

Oh, how silly!

If one were speaking to me in Chinese, I'd first need someone to tell me it was Chinese, then interpret it into English. Otherwise, it'd be gibberish to me!

Paul more-or-less said the same thing-that speaking to others in a language they don't understand is useless, that the speaker's words are gibberish to the audience.
 

Yeshua1

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Oh, how silly!

If one were speaking to me in Chinese, I'd first need someone to tell me it was Chinese, then interpret it into English. Otherwise, it'd be gibberish to me!

Paul more-or-less said the same thing-that speaking to others in a language they don't understand is useless, that the speaker's words are gibberish to the audience.
No longer needed for today though!
 

robycop3

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
When I was a child, long before I was saved, I was taken to a church by an aunt & uncle whose "pastor" started out with ordinary preaching, becoming more-and-more agitated as he went on so that he was soon screeching, barely understandable at all. As he grew agitated, so did the congregation, and before long, almost all were either on their knees, or on the floor, cutting dust angels, babbling & moaning incomprehensibly. This went on for about 15-20 minutes til the "pastor" ran outta gas, & everyone returned to normal slowly. Even as an unsaved child, I wondered how that could be honoring God, and kept me outta church til well into adulthood, as I believed most churches were goofy as the one I'd been taken to.

Closest thing to that "service" i'd seen before I was saved were parties where most people present had done LSD, peyote, or mescaline.
 

Yeshua1

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
When I was a child, long before I was saved, I was taken to a church by an aunt & uncle whose "pastor" started out with ordinary preaching, becoming more-and-more agitated as he went on so that he was soon screeching, barely understandable at all. As he grew agitated, so did the congregation, and before long, almost all were either on their knees, or on the floor, cutting dust angels, babbling & moaning incomprehensibly. This went on for about 15-20 minutes til the "pastor" ran outta gas, & everyone returned to normal slowly. Even as an unsaved child, I wondered how that could be honoring God, and kept me outta church til well into adulthood, as I believed most churches were goofy as the one I'd been taken to.

Closest thing to that "service" i'd seen before I was saved were parties where most people present had done LSD, peyote, or mescaline.
Have you ever seen when the "pastor" in middle of his"sermon" would suddenly get quiet, and say looking up: yes Lord, thank you Lord" and claim fresh revealtion right then from God and starts another new sermon?
 

robycop3

Well-Known Member
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Have you ever seen when the "pastor" in middle of his"sermon" would suddenly get quiet, and say looking up: yes Lord, thank you Lord" and claim fresh revealtion right then from God and starts another new sermon?


Yeah, when I listened to a tape of one of the late charlatan William Marrion Branham's sermons.
 

HankD

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
This thread might seem to contradict my new thread "Babbling against Speaking in Tongues," but it is needed for critical balance. I was raised in the first Pentecostal church to be established in Canada after the Azusa Street Revival of 1906 that gave birth to international Pentecostalism. My lifelong experiences and observations have taught me that 90% of Pentecostal manifestations are "of the flesh." But the 10% that is authentic is so precious, so life-changing that it makes endurance of the false manifestations worthwhile to get to the real thing that can be absolutely electrifying. My other thread will demonstrate the biblical basis for tongues and this thread will focus on the reasons for skepticism. If you stick with this thread, though, I will guide you through the safe method for having a life-changing positive experience of glossolalia, just as I have.

(1) My first point is this: Any provision of grace or authentic experience of the Spirit is counterfeited by dark forces. Historically, xenoglossy has actually proved to be one sign of demonic possession for the Catholic exorcist. In modern times, the problem is our need for instant gratification and our unwillingness to endure the emotional roller coaster ride of a lengthy period of spiritual longing and intercession. So Pentecostal leaders typically urge seekers to "just speak it out and then the Spirit will take over." The problem with this prompting is that it is all too easy to erupt in uninspired gibberish. Manifestations that begin in the flesh usually stay in the flesh. As a boy, I discovered this by direct experience and it was one factor that created a severe faith crisis. Yes, my false tongues gave me a powerful high, but the automatic second-guessing I experienced afterwards could be tormenting and made me doubt all forms of inner witness of the Holy
Spirit. Only later at age 16 did I discover that when the real thing is experienced, it is self-authenticating and beyond doubt and, in my case, was by far my most awesome life-changing experience ever. In fact, if I had no had this glossolalic experience on that fateful Tuesday night, I doubt I'd even be a Christian today because I was so wracked by doubts about biblical errors and contradictions and about phony spiritual manifestations.

Speaking in Tongues: The Need for Caution

Indeed there should be caution because the Book of the Acts of the Apostles is a book to infallibly and historically provide an inspired narrative of the transition from the Old to the New Covenant, from the worship of biblical Judaism of the Torah to worship in Spirit and Truth of the Church of Jesus Christ in Jerusalem.

The Book of Hebrews is the theological narrative of the same. It contains the reason why TONGUES HAVE CEASED - that is if you have eyes to see and ears to hear.
 

Yeshua1

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Speaking in Tongues: The Need for Caution

Indeed there should be caution because the Book of the Acts of the Apostles is a book to infallibly and historically provide an inspired narrative of the transition from the Old to the New Covenant, from the worship of biblical Judaism of the Torah to worship in Spirit and Truth of the Church of Jesus Christ in Jerusalem.

The Book of Hebrews is the theological narrative of the same. It contains the reason why TONGUES HAVE CEASED - that is if you have eyes to see and ears to hear.
I do not say God cannot still operate as he did in Acts, but would be very special cases, and mainly to confirm the validity of the gospel and Jesus as being Lord, but the normal and common operation would be speaking to us in scriptures, and answering prayers when in His sovereign plans and purposes!
 

HankD

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
I do not say God cannot still operate as he did in Acts, but would be very special cases, and mainly to confirm the validity of the gospel and Jesus as being Lord, but the normal and common operation would be speaking to us in scriptures, and answering prayers when in His sovereign plans and purposes!
True, we shouldn't be looking for SIGNS.

They won't return until the Age of Grace ends (also roughly known as the Times of the Gentiles - Luke 21:24).
 

Yeshua1

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
True, we shouldn't be looking for SIGNS.

They won't return until the Age of Grace ends (also roughly known as the Times of the Gentiles - Luke 21:24).
Those here looking for signs will see them, except thay are the ones being done by the Antichrist!
 

robycop3

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
I do not say God cannot still operate as he did in Acts, but would be very special cases, and mainly to confirm the validity of the gospel and Jesus as being Lord, but the normal and common operation would be speaking to us in scriptures, and answering prayers when in His sovereign plans and purposes!

I've also seen Rod parsley do it as he closed several of his "services".

Phony as a Chevy Mustang!
 

Rebel1

Active Member
This thread might seem to contradict my new thread "Babbling against Speaking in Tongues," but it is needed for critical balance. I was raised in the first Pentecostal church to be established in Canada after the Azusa Street Revival of 1906 that gave birth to international Pentecostalism. My lifelong experiences and observations have taught me that 90% of Pentecostal manifestations are "of the flesh." But the 10% that is authentic is so precious, so life-changing that it makes endurance of the false manifestations worthwhile to get to the real thing that can be absolutely electrifying. My other thread will demonstrate the biblical basis for tongues and this thread will focus on the reasons for skepticism. If you stick with this thread, though, I will guide you through the safe method for having a life-changing positive experience of glossolalia, just as I have.

(1) My first point is this: Any provision of grace or authentic experience of the Spirit is counterfeited by dark forces. Historically, xenoglossy has actually proved to be one sign of demonic possession for the Catholic exorcist. In modern times, the problem is our need for instant gratification and our unwillingness to endure the emotional roller coaster ride of a lengthy period of spiritual longing and intercession. So Pentecostal leaders typically urge seekers to "just speak it out and then the Spirit will take over." The problem with this prompting is that it is all too easy to erupt in uninspired gibberish. Manifestations that begin in the flesh usually stay in the flesh. As a boy, I discovered this by direct experience and it was one factor that created a severe faith crisis. Yes, my false tongues gave me a powerful high, but the automatic second-guessing I experienced afterwards could be tormenting and made me doubt all forms of inner witness of the Holy
Spirit. Only later at age 16 did I discover that when the real thing is experienced, it is self-authenticating and beyond doubt and, in my case, was by far my most awesome life-changing experience ever. In fact, if I had no had this glossolalic experience on that fateful Tuesday night, I doubt I'd even be a Christian today because I was so wracked by doubts about biblical errors and contradictions and about phony spiritual manifestations.

Thank you for sharing your experience. I, too, have doubts about most tongue-speaking. But, unlike some here, I will not say that you did not have an authentic experience. That is something I cannot know, but, from what you have written, I'll take you at your word. I would have to agree with your "90%" comment above.
 

1689Dave

Well-Known Member
The main problem with tongue speaking as I understand it is only an apostle could impart the gifts through the laying on of their hands. This of course acknowledges the two outpourings. After the death of the Apostles, all tongue speaking and Charismatic gift claims are fraudulent.
 
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