Spirit Through Pentecostals

[Patriot]

Does the Holy Spirit really make some members of the Pentecostals to speak in tongues? I've heard some people say that these were demons and I've also heard that it could be both. Anyone have an explanation to this?

 

[Alcott]

When someone decides to start babbling a bunch of syllables, what reason is there to think it is anything but a decision to babble?

 

[Ben W]

Speaking in tounges is a valid Spiritual Gift.

We have several Baptist Churches that practice it, check this group out, the Pentecostal Freewill Baptist Church.

http://www.pfwb.org/main.htm

 

[Bartimaeus]

Ben,
You can call it anything you want but it ain't baptist. God calls it "strange fire".
Thanks ----Bart

 

[Artimaeus]

I call it getting "psyched". They may or may not be consciencely deciding to babble but that pump has deffinitely been primed.

 

[ScottEmerson]

The Bible says that speaking in tongues is real. Who am I to question Paul?

 

[Mark Osgatharp]

Originally posted by ScottEmerson:
The Bible says that speaking in tongues is real. Who am I to question Paul?

Scott,

No one here has questioned Paul. They have questioned whether what the Charismatics call "tongues" is the same thing as what the Bible calls "tongues."

The Biblical gift of speaking "in tongues" was nothing more nor less the miraculous ability to speak in languages foreign to the speaker. That gift ceased when the book of Revelation was written, along with prophecy and all other spiritual gifts, excepting faith, hope, and love.

"Tongues" as practiced in Charismatic circles today has no Biblical basis whatsoever. It is shear babble, nothing other than a spiritual farce, either instigated by demonic or psychotic influences or (as is probably true in most cases) a mere fakery.

Mark Osgatharp

 

[Mike McK]

Originally posted by Bartimaeus:
You can call it anything you want but it ain't baptist. God calls it "strange fire".

No, He doesn't.

We find "strange fire" three times in scripture and not once is it referring to tongues. In addition, we find the referrences to "strange fire" in the OT (Le 10:1, Nu 3:4, Nu 26:61) and the gift of tongues didn't occur until Pentecost.

 

[Mike McK]

Originally posted by Patriot:
Does the Holy Spirit really make some members of the Pentecostals to speak in tongues? I've heard some people say that these were demons and I've also heard that it could be both. Anyone have an explanation to this?

My personal belief is that the gifts (including tongues) do still exsist.

In some cases, I do believe it's the work of the Holy Spirit (although I don't believe that it's lomited to pentecostals) and in some cases, I believe that it can be the product of one's own imagination or maybe somethng more sinister.

As with anything, you need to hold it up to the light of scripture. If the interpretation (and there will always be an interpretation if it's from God) doesn't line up with God's word, then that's your first red flag that it's not from God.

 

[Bartimaeus]

Mike Mck,
It was strange fire that Nadab and Abihu offered up to the Lord. The crazmatic so-called Baptists who dabble around in the common problem today are offering strange fire up to the Lord. Many crazmatics consider it coming through the "baptism of fire" they say was promised by John and fulfilled in Acts. It is a self fulfilling fleshly activity born of the "spirit of error" spoken of by John in his epistle. I have had extensive dealings with them and have attended their Rock and Roll concerts that they call worship and I have seen the results. They prove the scripture by experience rather than prove their experience by scripture. A very common mistake. It is a practiced hoax. It is strange fire.
Thanks -----Bart

 

[Mike McK]

Originally posted by Bartimaeus:
Mike Mck,
It was strange fire that Nadab and Abihu offered up to the Lord.

But this was not tongues.

The crazmatic so-called Baptists who dabble around in the common problem today are offering strange fire up to the Lord.

How so?

Many crazmatics consider it coming through the "baptism of fire" they say was promised by John and fulfilled in Acts. It is a self fulfilling fleshly activity born of the "spirit of error" spoken of by John in his epistle.

I disagree.

I have had extensive dealings with them and have attended their Rock and Roll concerts that they call worship and I have seen the results.

You've had "extensive dealings" with them? Well, I was one and I've seen the results, too. Thank God for those results.

They prove the scripture by experience rather than prove their experience by scripture.

How so? The charismatic baptists I know can defend their beliefs from scripture.

So far, you're the one who's showing a lack of scriptural knowledge when you insist on calling this "strange fire".

 

[gb93433]

In 1 Cor. speaking in tongues was out of hand. What Paul did was an attempt to bring it under control. He told the people that if one speaks in a tongue there must be interpretation. He did not discount the gift nor fan its flame. Just as any other gift must be brought under control. Seldom do we hear about the abuse of the gifts relevant to preaching and teaching being abused. But all of us know of cases where they have been. In a body of believers the point of gifts is that the body mught be edified not just one individual. When tongues is brought under control there is the likelihood that not much of it will occur within the body of believers. The one who speaks in a tongue is to pray that there will be an interpretation. To say tongues has ceased I cannot but I can say that I don't see any value in it. Maybe I am missing something but I see plenty in scripture to edify the entire body for eternity.

We do know from history that non-believers have spoken in tongues. So the gift cannot be exclusive to believers.

 

[Patriot]

They've been doing a study about gifts at our Baptist church. According from what I have learned, it is possible for someone to speak angelical tongues through the Holy Spirit but there are also those who can speak through demons. The thing was that you had to have someone to interpret the tongue. Also, someone here posted that the gift of prophecy does not exist anymore after the book of Revelations was finished. According to what I have learned, we don't prophecy anymore because we are not inspired, BUT the Pastors nowadays are the prophets because God reveals to them what is written in the Bible.

 

[Trotter]

What is called "tongues" today is nothing more than extastic babbling. How can I say that? I live in Cleveland, Tn, the world headquarters of the COG, Cleveland. I am constantly barraged by the nonsense of these "tongues", and how that if you have not experienced the "gift", then your salvation is in question, and you have not received the Holy Spirit. HOGWASH!!!!!

 

[Trotter]

What is called "tongues" today is nothing more than extastic babbling. How can I say that? I live in Cleveland, Tn, the world headquarters of the COG, Cleveland. I am constantly barraged by the nonsense of these "tongues", and how that if you have not experienced the "gift", then your salvation is in question, and you have not received the Holy Spirit. HOGWASH!!!!!

 

[Trotter]

Unfortunately, my next twenty minutes of typing were lost when I hit a wrong sequence of keys...

Sorry for the double post.

I feel very strongly about this issue, but it maybe for the best that the rest of my post was lost (keeps the moderators from having to cut it up ).

Anyway, the "tongues" that are practiced today has nothing to do with what took place in the Bible. Ecstastic babblings are not new, and they are not confined to Christianity. It is a shame that people have taken a pagan practice and elevated it above the miracle of salvation.

What does it matter if one can babble in gutteral tones, and another can do it in three ocatives, if the poor lost soul who happened to wander into this carnival of a church service cannot understand what in the name of God is going on? He will leave in the same, or worse, shape as when he came.

The work of the Spirit is of utmost imprtance. The ability to spout/shout gibberish is not. I would prefer that they who practice such remain silent, for if I do not know from whence it comes, I do not want to hear it at all. No one speaking in "tongues" can tell you what it was that they said, meaning that they are not in control of their faculties. What I want to know is, Who is driving the bus? (Certainly not the Spirit of God, He is not the Author of confusion.)

In Christ,
Trotter

 

[Patriot]

In my church it has never been preached that if you can't speak in tongues your salvation is in question. The speaking of tongues is just a gift among many that we can acquire through the Holy Spirit. You said what's the point in someone speaking tongues if they are not to be understood. The Bible says there is also the gift of those who can interpret the tongues. Also, it says the person is not speaking to men, but to God.

1 Corinthians 14:2 says "For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries"

It also says that the speaking of tongues edifies the person itself, but not the church:

"He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himself; but he that prophesied edifieth the church" 1 Corinthians 14:4

 

[Mark Osgatharp]

Originally posted by Patriot:
In my church it has never been preached that if you can't speak in tongues your salvation is in question. The speaking of tongues is just a gift among many that we can acquire through the Holy Spirit. You said what's the point in someone speaking tongues if they are not to be understood. The Bible says there is also the gift of those who can interpret the tongues. Also, it says the person is not speaking to men, but to God.

1 Corinthians 14:2 says "For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries"

It also says that the speaking of tongues edifies the person itself, but not the church:

"He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himself; but he that prophesied edifieth the church" 1 Corinthians 14:4

Patriot,

The point of these statements you quote is that if a man speaks in a language no one in his hearing understands, he is not accomplishing anything other than puffing himself up, for only God hears him. I've heard Pentecostals/Charismatics claim that "tongues" are for speaking to God; yet I've never heard anyone claim they were for speaking to the air.

"So likewise ye, except ye utter by the tongue words easy to be understood, how shall it be known what is spoken? for ye shall speak into the air."

And that was talking about the real gift of tongues, not the ridiculous nonsense of the Pentecostal/Charismatic heresy!

Mark Osgatharp

 

[Roy]

I once heard a Baptist preacher on the radio say that when he got saved, he talked with a new tongue. It was a tongue that didn't lie or cuss anymore.

Roy

 

[ScottEmerson]

Originally posted by Mark Osgatharp:
"So likewise ye, except ye utter by the tongue words easy to be understood, how shall it be known what is spoken? for ye shall speak into the air."


Mark Osgatharp [/QB]

Continue reading the rest of the chapter. You'll see that you have yet again ripped a passage out of context. Others on the board who wish to see where Mark messes up can read the entire passage.