Sticks & Stones - Do You Stone The Sabbath Breaker? (Num 15:32-36)

[HankD]

You know, if such a thing happened to me I would do the same. I do like veggies - plus potatoes, rice etc., but until then I will continue on as usual. I try to keep a limit on fried foods and the worst of the stuff though. Well you take care of yourself now, you certainly don't need those bad things to crop up again. My God bless you and keep you healthy!

Thanks, blessings to you as well.

 

[Adonia]

Post # 56 and elswhere is discussing the scripture from "what goes into the mouth" and added the context you left out and shows why you are in error and is discussing the man made traditions of washing of hands and cups (not food). You did not read it did you.

If you do not wish to address the post and scripture and questions in post # 56 and elsewhere just say so. I did not think you would to be honest, as it shows why you are in error through the scriptures alone. Only God's Word is true and we should believe and follow it.

You only provide your own words which are not God's Word in order you justify breaking God's LAW. If you cannot show why you disagree with the context you leave out of the scriptures provided in the linked post above why do you not believe Gods' WORD?

I believe God's word, but not in the false way you present it. For instance, Jesus gave the Apostles the power to "bind and loose" things here on earth and what they said would also be accepted in heaven. Now flowing from that, the great majority of the Christian world has been worshipping on Sunday for the last 2000 years. It was only in the 1800's that a small Christian sect decided that was an error and reverted back to Saturday worship. So today, we see that there is but a very small part of the Cristian world that has taken up Saturday worship. You are the one who has disregarded Jesus's words and have gone your own way, not us.

It is the same with what is allowed to eat. It was never meant that all Christians had to follow the Jewish dietary laws, no, never, and not for a moment. Circumcision was also done away with for the believer, as what was done or not done to the body had no bearing on the salvation of the believer - it is what is in one person's heart and mind, not what is done to the body in either circumcision or eating. That has been the accepted Christian truth, not the stuff you are peddling.

 

[3rdAngel]

I believe God's word, but not in the false way you present it. For instance, Jesus gave the Apostles the power to "bind and loose" things here on earth and what they said would also be accepted in heaven. Now flowing from that, the great majority of the Christian world has been worshipping on Sunday for the last 2000 years. It was only in the 1800's that a small Christian sect decided that was an error and reverted back to Saturday worship. So today, we see that there is but a very small part of the Cristian world that has taken up Saturday worship. You are the one who has disregarded Jesus's words and have gone your own way, not us.

It is the same with what is allowed to eat. It was never meant that all Christians had to follow the Jewish dietary laws, no, never, and not for a moment. Circumcision was also done away with for the believer, as what was done or not done to the body had no bearing on the salvation of the believer - it is what is in one person's heart and mind, not what is done to the body in either circumcision or eating. That has been the accepted Christian truth, not the stuff you are peddling.

Yet here you still are not able to respond to the posts and the scriptures and questions that are only shared in love and as a help to you that show why your in error? In response to God's WORD you only provide your Words which are not God's WORD in order to deny God's Word which are not my words but God's.

Where is the scripture that says God's 4th commandment has been abolished and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a Holy day? If you have no scripture for your tradition that breaks Gods' 4th commandment who do you follow, God or man? You are indeed confused brother not knowing the Word of God and according to the scripture neither do you follow it *MATTHEW 7:22-26.

God's Sheep hear his Voice (the Word) and follow him. Perhaps you should consider 1 JOHN 2:3-4. What do you think it means?

 

[HankD]

Yet here you still are not able to respond to the posts and the scriptures and questions that are only shared in love and as a help to you that show why your in error? In response to God's WORD you only provide your Words which are not God's WORD in order to deny God's Word which are not my words but God's.

Where is the scripture that says God's 4th commandment has been abolished and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a Holy day? If you have no scripture for your tradition that breaks Gods' 4th commandment who do you follow, God or man? You are indeed confused brother not knowing the Word of God and according to the scripture neither do you follow it *MATTHEW 7:22-26.

God's Sheep hear his Voice (the Word) and follow him. Perhaps you should consider 1 JOHN 2:3-4. What do you think it means?

Using your own words - "Yet here you still are not able to respond to the posts and the scriptures and questions that are only shared in love and as a help to you that show why your in error? In response to God's WORD you only provide your Words which are not God's WORD in order to deny God's Word which are not my words but God's."

In that you still cannot/willnot obey the punitive clause of the commandment
Do You Stone The Sabbath Breaker? (Num 15:32-36)

 

[Walter]

Your confused there is no official position statement on pro-choice abortion from the SDA Church anywhere. There is only a 1992 guidline statement. You misrepresent what is being said brother this is sad for you.

While the church's official publications have avoided discussion of the abortion issue, pro-life Adventists have taken to the Internet to call on the church to revisit its position (guidelines).

I suggest you re-visit post # 47 for how SDA'S view abortion.

That will be my last post here on the misinformation your sharing here. As this is not the topic of the OP. Now do you have any scripture to share in relation to the subject matter of the OP?

Apologies for going offtopic to the OP.

The SDA hides behind it's 'no official position'. The FACT is that your OFFICIAL GUIDELINES make it clear that the final decision on whether or not to abort a baby is a women's RIGHT TO CHOOSE. The FACT is that many Adventists hospitals are performing ELECTIVE abortions as I post this. WHY?

You say that Andrew recanted his criticism of the SDA pro-choice guidelines. REALLY? Then why has he not taken down the myriad of youtube videos exposing the SDA for it's participation in the murder of babies. Saturday worship is a big deal to you. Not eating pork is a big deal to you. But the murder of innocent babies matter not to the SDA and what takes place in your hospitals is all the proof I need to know your church is a stenchi in the Lord's nostrils. You want to point to the Catholic Church and what happened back in the Middle Ages? What about what the holocaust your church is participating in every day of the year?

 

[3rdAngel]

The SDA hides behind it's 'no official position'. The FACT is that your OFFICIAL GUIDELINES make it clear that the final decision on whether or not to abort a baby is a women's RIGHT TO CHOOSE. The FACT is that many Adventists hospitals are performing ELECTIVE abortions as I post this. WHY?

You say that Andrew recanted his criticism of the SDA pro-choice guidelines. REALLY? Then why has he not taken down the myriad of youtube videos exposing the SDA for it's participation in the murder of babies. Saturday worship is a big deal to you. Not eating pork is a big deal to you. But the murder of innocent babies matter not to the SDA and what takes place in your hospitals is all the proof I need to know your church is a stenchi in the Lord's nostrils. You want to point to the Catholic Church and what happened back in the Middle Ages? What about what the holocaust your church is participating in every day of the year?

I said in my previous post after going offtopic that my previous post would be my last one for you on this topic as your trying to derail the thread. I am only responding to this as you are writing things I have not said so will put this one right for the record here before abandoning this off topic discussion with you. Than that is enough for me on this subject. Your spreading of misinformation and lies are noted. I never said the maker of that video re-canted anything I said he provided a follow up an earlier video you posted to Doug Batchelor and posted it below.

Please stop saying things no one has said. Including your misinformation in relation to abortion and what SDA's believe.

Your confused there is no official position statement on pro-choice abortion from the SDA Church anywhere. There is only a 1992 guidline statement. You misrepresent what is being said brother this is sad for you.

While the church's official publications have avoided discussion of the abortion issue, pro-life Adventists have taken to the Internet to call on the church to revisit its position (guidelines).

I suggest you re-visit post # 47 for how SDA'S view abortion.

You seem to be confused as to what the Church is brother. The Church is the people not the building or an organisation. I can understand more where you are coming from now. I was wondering why you do not like to discuss the scrptures and seek to change topic from the subject matter and the bible.

Now I could rechange our topic of discussion and talk about all the abominations that the Catholic Church has committed over time. Even mentioning the 10's of millions of protestants that the Church persecuted and killed and the pagan practices introduces into the Church and show miles of posts of supporting historical evidence but do you know why I am not? It is because I believe God's people are in "EVERY CHURCH"! living up to all the knowledge God has given them.

We are not responsible for what others do, say or believe. We are responsible though for what we do, say and believe. God is calling his people out from following man made traditions where ever they may be back to follow him according to the pure Word of God. That is all I am seeking to do by sharing God's WORD here. You are only spreading half truths and lies by omission and misinformation. No one I know in the SDA Church believes, supports or teaches abortion and to say this is the position of the SDA Church is only a lie.

Now many Priests practice(ed) pedephillia against young children in the Roman Catholic Church. There is a long history of child abuse practiced within the Church and covered up by the RCC leadership over the years. There are too many links to post. So just posting a few below.

1. History of sexual abuse in the Roman Catholic Church (Wiki)
2. The Catholic Church’s grim history of ignoring priestly pedophilia – and silencing would-be whistleblowers
3. The Catholic Church’s Unholy Stain
4. Pope Francis latest target in the Catholic Churches Pedophillia blame game

Now, does this mean that the all the members of the RCC support and practice pedephillia? Well of course not. That would be a ludicrous thing to say yet this is the same approach you take in your argument on abortion.

Now do you have any scripture to share in relation to the subject matter of the OP?

Apologies for going offtopic to the OP.

 

[utilyan]

The SDA condemned the Catholic church for saying abortion is murder. And it looks like they finally going to cough it up.

Adventist Review Online | World Church Executive Committee Considers Statement on Abortion

They are trying to change the official position-> "The sixth commandment 37 states: “You shall not kill” (Exodus 20:13), which calls for the preservation of human life. The 38 principle to preserve life enshrined in the sixth commandment places abortion within its scope."


THEY KNOW they messed up.

Before They defend the right for abortion as "RELIGIOUS LIBERTY". A person is not to coherce or be another persons conscience.

So telling someone they shouldn't get an abortion obstructs a person "religious liberty", but whining about what day they decided to express love for God is just fine.

This is the official position of the SDA CHURCH, From their official website.


4) The Church does not serve as conscience for individuals; however, it should provide moral guidance. Abortions for reasons of birth control, gender selection, or convenience are not condoned by the Church. Women, at times however, may face exceptional circumstances that present serious moral or medical dilemmas, such as significant threats to the pregnant woman's life, serious jeopardy to her health, severe congenital defects carefully diagnosed in the fetus, and pregnancy resulting from rape or incest. The final decision whether to terminate the pregnancy or not should be made by the pregnant woman after appropriate consultation. She should be aided in her decision by accurate information, biblical principles, and the guidance of the Holy Spirit. Moreover, these decisions are best made within the context of healthy family relationships.

5) Christians acknowledge as first and foremost their accountability to God. They seek balance between the exercise of individual liberty and their accountability to the faith community and the larger society and its laws. They make their choices according to scripture and the laws of God rather than the norms of society. Therefore, any attempts to coerce women either to remain pregnant or to terminate pregnancy should be rejected as infringements of personal freedom.


Wow then let me worship when I want! You infringe on my personal freedom.

 

[3rdAngel]

Using your own words - "Yet here you still are not able to respond to the posts and the scriptures and questions that are only shared in love and as a help to you that show why your in error? In response to God's WORD you only provide your Words which are not God's WORD in order to deny God's Word which are not my words but God's." In that you still cannot/willnot obey the punitive clause of the commandment Do You Stone The Sabbath Breaker? (Num 15:32-36)

Thanks Hank for trying to keep the thread on topic. Was this not already addressed in post # 18? So your claims here are not true as your post has already been realt with by God's Word.

We are not living in the OLD COVENANT under the civil laws of the nation of ISRAEL. We are in the NEW COVENANT now brother where have you been? Death penalty is still in place for all sin in the NEW COVENANT to all those who reject the gift of God's dear son and count the blood of the covenant an unholy thing *ROMANS 6:23; ROMANS 8:13 though Vengence is now God's.

ROMANS 12:17-19 [17] Repay no one evil for evil. Have regard for good things in the sight of all men. [18] If it is possible, as much as depends on you, live peaceably with all men. [19] Beloved, do not avenge yourselves, but rather give place to wrath; for it is written, “Vengeance is Mine, I will repay,” says the Lord.

REVELATION 22:12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.

Yep would not like to be in the shoes of those who practice sin at the second coming when many only find out too late that they lost their salvation thinking they were saved but did not believe and follow what God says *MATTHEW 7:22-26; HEBREWS 10:26-39

May you receive God's WORD and be blessed. Ignoring it does not make it dissappear.

 

[3rdAngel]

The SDA condemned the Catholic church for saying abortion is murder. And it looks like they finally going to cough it up.

Adventist Review Online | World Church Executive Committee Considers Statement on Abortion

They are trying to change the official position-> "The sixth commandment 37 states: “You shall not kill” (Exodus 20:13), which calls for the preservation of human life. The 38 principle to preserve life enshrined in the sixth commandment places abortion within its scope."


THEY KNOW they messed up.

Before They defend the right for abortion as "RELIGIOUS LIBERTY". A person is not to coherce or be another persons conscience.

So telling someone they shouldn't get an abortion obstructs a person "religious liberty", but whining about what day they decided to express love for God is just fine.

This is the official position of the SDA CHURCH, From their official website.


4) The Church does not serve as conscience for individuals; however, it should provide moral guidance. Abortions for reasons of birth control, gender selection, or convenience are not condoned by the Church. Women, at times however, may face exceptional circumstances that present serious moral or medical dilemmas, such as significant threats to the pregnant woman's life, serious jeopardy to her health, severe congenital defects carefully diagnosed in the fetus, and pregnancy resulting from rape or incest. The final decision whether to terminate the pregnancy or not should be made by the pregnant woman after appropriate consultation. She should be aided in her decision by accurate information, biblical principles, and the guidance of the Holy Spirit. Moreover, these decisions are best made within the context of healthy family relationships.

5) Christians acknowledge as first and foremost their accountability to God. They seek balance between the exercise of individual liberty and their accountability to the faith community and the larger society and its laws. They make their choices according to scripture and the laws of God rather than the norms of society. Therefore, any attempts to coerce women either to remain pregnant or to terminate pregnancy should be rejected as infringements of personal freedom.


Wow then let me worship when I want! You infringe on my personal freedom.

Your spreading of misinformation is noted. There is no official position and statement on abortion. The fact they are considering one is a good idea. It will stop misinformation like yours and your friends being circulated.

 

[utilyan]

Your misinformation and lies are also noted. There is no official position and statement on abortion. The fact they are considering one is a good idea. It will stop misinformation like yours and your friends being circulated.

"Your misinformation and lies are also noted."

I understand your pain brother, in denial. I bet you can't find a official position and statement for anything.

Notice I'm not calling you names and I don't think you are a bad person.
No one wants to be the bad guy.


"There is no official position and statement on abortion."

I can say the official position is Abortion is Murder in the Church of Jesus Christ.

Here is Official LINK that anyone can see:

Abortion


I don't have to make up anything. All I have to do is point at where your church officially stands.


Is abortion murder 3rdAngel?

 

[3rdAngel]

"Your misinformation and lies are also noted."

I understand your pain brother, in denial. I bet you can't find a official position and statement for anything.

Notice I'm not calling you names and I don't think you are a bad person.
No one wants to be the bad guy.


"There is no official position and statement on abortion."

I can say the official position is Abortion is Murder in the Church of Jesus Christ.

Here is Official LINK that anyone can see:

Abortion


I don't have to make up anything. All I have to do is point at where your church officially stands.


Is abortion murder 3rdAngel?

Your confused there is no official position statement on pro-choice abortion from the SDA Church anywhere. There is only a 1992 guidline statement. You misrepresent what is being said brother this is sad for you.

While the church's official publications have avoided discussion of the abortion issue, pro-life Adventists have taken to the Internet to call on the church to revisit its position (guidelines).

I suggest you re-visit post # 47 for how SDA'S view abortion.

 

[utilyan]

Your confused there is no official position statement on pro-choice abortion from the SDA Church anywhere. There is only a 1992 guidline statement. You misrepresent what is being said brother this is sad for you.

While the church's official publications have avoided discussion of the abortion issue, pro-life Adventists have taken to the Internet to call on the church to revisit its position (guidelines).

I suggest you re-visit post # 47 for how SDA'S view abortion.

Why don't you show us the official position on whining about worship on sunday.

 

[HankD]

Thanks Hank for trying to keep the thread on topic. Was this not already addressed in post # 18? So your claims here are not true as your post has already been dealt with by God's Word.

not sufficiently angel. violating the law of Moses was dealt with immediately then as now - Ananias and Sapphira.

 

[Adonia]

Yet here you still are not able to respond to the posts and the scriptures and questions that are only shared in love and as a help to you that show why your in error? In response to God's WORD you only provide your Words which are not God's WORD in order to deny God's Word which are not my words but God's.

Where is the scripture that says God's 4th commandment has been abolished and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a Holy day? If you have no scripture for your tradition that breaks Gods' 4th commandment who do you follow, God or man? You are indeed confused brother not knowing the Word of God and according to the scripture neither do you follow it *MATTHEW 7:22-26.

God's Sheep hear his Voice (the Word) and follow him. Perhaps you should consider 1 JOHN 2:3-4. What do you think it means?

I told you, it's the power to "bind and loose" scripture that covers Sunday worship - it's that simple. You just do not want to accept that. Saturday worship continues to be in effect for the Jews, as does circumcision, special dietary laws etc. We are Christians freed from the old law and covered by the new testament of Jesus Christ.

 

[3rdAngel]

not sufficiently angel. violating the law of Moses was dealt with immediately then as now - Ananias and Sapphira.

Sure it has. Please address post # 68 if you disagree as it shows why your claims are in error. We are not a part of the civil laws of the OLD COVENANT to the nation of ISRAEL. FYI anyone publically breaking most of God's 10 commandments (not just the 4th commandment) were stoned to death under the MOSAIC civil laws in the OLD COVENANT.

We are not living in the OLD COVENANT under the civil laws of the nation of ISRAEL. We are in the NEW COVENANT now brother where have you been? Death penalty is still in place for all sin in the NEW COVENANT to all those who reject the gift of God's dear son and count the blood of the covenant an unholy thing *ROMANS 6:23; ROMANS 8:13 though Vengence is now God's.

ROMANS 12:17-19 [17] Repay no one evil for evil. Have regard for good things in the sight of all men. [18] If it is possible, as much as depends on you, live peaceably with all men. [19] Beloved, do not avenge yourselves, but rather give place to wrath; for it is written, “Vengeance is Mine, I will repay,” says the Lord.

REVELATION 22:12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.

Yep would not like to be in the shoes of those who practice sin at the second coming when many only find out too late that they lost their salvation thinking they were saved but did not believe and follow what God says *MATTHEW 7:22-26; HEBREWS 10:26-39

According to God's WORD God's LAW (10 Commandments) in the NEW COVENANT give us the KNOWLEDGE of GOOD and EVIL; SIN and RIGHTOUESNESS. *ROMANS 3:20; ROMANS 7:7; 1 JOHN 3:4 and if we knowingly break anyone of them we stand guilty before God of sin *1 JOHN 3:4. All those who continue in known unrepentant sin after they receive a knowledge of the truth will not enter the kingdom of God becase they do despite to the Spirit of God and count the blood of the coventant an unholy thing rejecting the gift of God's dear son *HEBRREWS 10:26-39; ROMANS 6:23; ROMANS 8:13.

 

[3rdAngel]

I told you, it's the power to "bind and loose" scripture that covers Sunday worship - it's that simple. You just do not want to accept that. Saturday worship continues to be in effect for the Jews, as does circumcision, special dietary laws etc. We are Christians freed from the old law and covered by the new testament of Jesus Christ.

Rubbish! No man has power on earth to change God's 10 Commandments and none of the Aposltes ever did. Or is there a single scripture in all of God's WORD that says God's 4th Command has now been abolished and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a Holy day. Who should we believe and follow; the teachings and traditions of men or the Word of God? JESUS says those who follow the teachings and traditions of men are not following God *MATTHEW 15:3-9

 

[HankD]

yes i keep the Sabbath 24/7/52.

 

[3rdAngel]

yes i keep the Sabbath 24/7/52.

No you don't if you did you would not be working 24/7/52 *EXODUS 20:8-11 and keeping everyday as a Holy day. That would be unbiblical.

 

[Alofa Atu]

So, I am not sure, if people that seem to write perfectly good English, understand how to read English, as the OP is about the law of stoning the sabbath breaker in the OT, and how it directly applies to the NT individual as per 1 Corinthians 10 and 1 Corinthians 15, etc, and yet persons responding to the thread seem to be about every other issue other than the topic. Is it because their own conscience is pricked by the material?, I cannot say. Is it because what is presented is so clearly true, that it would go against their own present theology, and therefore, they must needs deflect, obfuscate and derail to save their own pride, to save themselves from admitting their own error? Even if so, the words do not change, the text presented doesn't change. Truth is as the rock, and it is error which is cleaved by it.

I am not impressed by words or false accusations, as all of those sticks and stones cannot eternally hurt me. They merely strengthen my resolve to press onward in the upward way.

To anyone who is sincere can see what is mere obfuscation, and what is truth and clarification. So I no longer worry about those who merely seek to deter people from truth, as those who desire truth, there is nothing that can be done against from God giving it to them who seek and ask after it.

People are so worried about what Judas is doing in the church, rather than what Jesus is doing.

 

[HankD]

No you don't if you did you would not be working 24/7/52 *EXODUS 20:8-11 and keeping everyday as a Holy day. That would be unbiblical.

it sounds like you don't know what the Sabbath is or how to keep it.