Study 2 Thessalonians 2:13

[Silverhair]

But you are arguing in circles. You already believe the doctrines are false, based on pagan philosophy, so of course you will say that Augustine must have brought them in from paganism. Calvin backs up his teachings from Scripture, as do all the confessions of faith based on those doctrines (for example the 1689 London Baptist Confession of Faith and the Westminster Confession).

It is not a question of whether augustine brought those pagan views into the church, it is historical fact.

You are denying history as you do not like what is shows you.

I rejected the DoG/TULIP before I knew that auguistine brought pagan views into the church.

The DoG/TULIP do not align with the character of God but rather distort it.

 

[David Lamb]

It is not a question of whether augustine brought those pagan views into the church, it is historical fact.

You are denying history as you do not like what is shows you.

And you seem to be denying the fact that the godly men who formulated the Calvinistic confessions of faith were careful to ensure that everything included was backed up with Scripture, not with pagan philosophy.

 

[Silverhair]

And you seem to be denying the fact that the godly men who formulated the Calvinistic confessions of faith were careful to ensure that everything included was backed up with Scripture, not with pagan philosophy.

And you seem to be ignoring the fact that those men started with a calvinist view and then looked for scripture that they thought supported that view.

They did just what the cults do today, pulled verses out of context or misapplied them.

One is to get their doctrine from scripture not read it into scripture.

 

[David Lamb]

And you seem to be ignoring the fact that those men started with a calvinist view and then looked for scripture that they thought supported that view.

They did just what the cults do today, pulled verses out of context or misapplied them.

One is to get their doctrine from scripture not read it into scripture.

You seem to be claiming an intimate knowledge of "those men." How else could you know with such apparent certainty that they "started with a Calvinist view and then looked for scripture that they thought supported that view?"

 

[Van]

Here is a standard Calvinist claim, every tenet of Calvinism is backed up with scripture.

They say none of the lost ever seek after God, but back it up by saying those seeking God were not really seeking God, or in other words, they back up their false doctrines from rewritten verses.

Scripture has a great many examples of lost people seeking God, seeking eternal life, seeking the narrow door and so forth and so on.

They rewrite 1 Cor. 2:14 to say the natural person cannot understand ANY OF the things of the Spirit of God. I can go on and on.

They seem ruled by pride because they ignore all the evidence pretending to not grasp the biblical view.

 

[Silverhair]

You seem to be claiming an intimate knowledge of "those men." How else could you know with such apparent certainty that they "started with a Calvinist view and then looked for scripture that they thought supported that view?"

Are you telling me that they became calvinists after writing the confession?

Remember it is a confession of their calvinist understanding of scripture.

 

[David Lamb]

Are you telling me that they became calvinists after writing the confession?

Remember it is a confession of their calvinist understanding of scripture.

No I am not saying that. I am saying that they believed the doctrines of grace because they found them in the Scriptures, which is why, when they came to formulate the confessions of faith, they backed up every statement with Scripture, not with pagan philosophy, or even by quoting Augustine.

 

[Silverhair]

No I am not saying that. I am saying that they believed the doctrines of grace because they found them in the Scriptures, which is why, when they came to formulate the confessions of faith, they backed up every statement with Scripture, not with pagan philosophy, or even by quoting Augustine.

But there in lays the problem David, the calvinist views are based on what augustine said and which calvin carried forward. We know that augustine was influenced by those pagan philosophies and thus we see those same pagan philosophies in calvinism.

So when they wrote their confession they looked for scriptures that they thought supported those same philosophies. Calvin himself said that his understanding of scripture could be traced right back to augustine. Calvin references augustine over 70 times in his institutes.

Calvin stated, "Augustine is so much at one with me that, if I wished to write a confession of my faith, it would abundantly satisfy me to quote wholesale from his writings."
(Concerning the Eternal Predestination of God, p.63)

 

[Brightfame52]

They say none of the lost ever seek after God,

It's scripture Rom 3:11

 

[Brightfame52]

They rewrite 1 Cor. 2:14 to say the natural person cannot understand ANY OF the things of the Spirit of God. I can go on and on

That's scripture, the things of the Spirit are foolishness to the natural man. And that includes the Gospel in the preceding context 1 Cor 1:18

18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.