Submit = Obey?

[Timtoolman]

Originally posted by James Newman:
So somehow you have come to the conclusion that there is a difference between submit and obey, because the bible was originally written in Greek? That is amazing. If the greek word means submit, then it means obey, because submit does mean obey. If God doesn't mean submit then you should figure out what He does mean and write a new bible. You can't accuse me of adding to the bible because I require my wife to obey me.

Was Christ 'abusing his headship' when he commanded us not to sin? If submitting to the Lord means anything other than obeying His commands, I would like to see that from scripture, not just vain emotional arguments about how you think you can submit to the Lord without obeying His commands. If a wife is to submit to her husband 'as unto the Lord' then she needs to obey him. If she won't obey her husband, she won't obey and isn't obeying the Lord either.

James, its maddening isn't it? You must be a wife beater too eh?

 

[Johnv]

Originally posted by James Newman:
So somehow you have come to the conclusion that there is a difference between submit and obey, because the bible was originally written in Greek? That is amazing. If the greek word means submit, then it means obey, because submit does mean obey.

This is completely false. You might want to actually study the greek that the bible was written in, because you clearly have no knowlege of the subject, and are making blatantly false scriptural assumptions based on your lack of knowlege.

 

[James_Newman]

Are you saying that whatever greek word was translated submit was translated wrong? The defenition of submit in my earlier post was 'comply'. Does submit mean comply? Does comply mean have respect for authority, or does it mean obey? I suggest that it is you who do not know what you are talking about. Using the original greek argument as a cover for willfull sin is not a wise thing to do in my estimation. If any woman decides she doesn't need to obey her husband because Johnv said that the greek word for submit doesn't include obedience, your going to have to answer for that, not me, brother.

 

[Elnora]

Wow you all post fast!

Hi Timtoolman

We don't submit out of respect, we submit in obedience to Christ. And we are to revere our husbands. Now I gotta go read the rest of these posts.

 

[Elnora]

Originally posted by James Newman:
Are you saying that whatever greek word was translated submit was translated wrong? The defenition of submit in my earlier post was 'comply'. Does submit mean comply? Does comply mean have respect for authority, or does it mean obey? I suggest that it is you who do not know what you are talking about. Using the original greek argument as a cover for willfull sin is not a wise thing to do in my estimation. If any woman decides she doesn't need to obey her husband because Johnv said that the greek word for submit doesn't include obedience, your going to have to answer for that, not me, brother.

Submit is to yeild your will. Preferring your spouse over yourself. You know like, I Corinthians 13 kind of love. Do you realize by threatening your brother with God's wrath is sin.

It proves the point that people who try to lord over others using fear tactics. But perfect love casts out all fear. You need to repent for a false accusation. The Apostle Paul would be rebuking you sharply right now as would Christ.

 

[Elnora]

Originally posted by Johnv:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by James Newman:
So somehow you have come to the conclusion that there is a difference between submit and obey, because the bible was originally written in Greek? That is amazing. If the greek word means submit, then it means obey, because submit does mean obey.

This is completely false. You might want to actually study the greek that the bible was written in, because you clearly have no knowlege of the subject, and are making blatantly false scriptural assumptions based on your lack of knowlege. </font>[/QUOTE]John,

I agree with you but we actually don't even need the original to deduce this. Although it helps. If people would just study God's word they would realize this. I learned it before I had the original. Interpret scripture with scripture.

 

[James_Newman]

5293 hupotasso hoop-ot-as'-so from 5259 and 5021; to subordinate; reflexively, to obey:--be under obedience (obedient), put under, subdue unto, (be, make) subject (to, unto), be (put) in subjection (to, under), submit self unto.

Matthew 12:36
But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment.

Am I making this stuff up?

 

[Elnora]

No, you are not rightly dividing the Word of truth. And John was not speaking idle words. So you are again misapplying scripture.

 

[Timtoolman]

Originally posted by James Newman:
[QB] 5293 hupotasso hoop-ot-as'-so from 5259 and 5021; to subordinate; reflexively, to obey:--be under obedience (obedient), put under, subdue unto, (be, make) subject (to, unto), be (put) in subjection (to, under), submit self unto.

Matthew 12:36
But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment.

Yep thats what my hebrew, greek bible says too. I just wanted to amuse myself with how others interpt. I mean I am getting some good laughs out of it. It amazes me how much people will fight against what scriptures say. I understand the women argueing it but the man argueing it on here has me wondering.

 

[Timtoolman]

Originally posted by Elnora:
No, you are not rightly dividing the Word of truth. And John was not speaking idle words. So you are again misapplying scripture.

Now elenor, sister,(and my equal

) this kind of post amazes me. Where has he not rightly divided the word from his post on the def. of submit?
What is the reasoning? What if we all just said No that is not right, you are interpting it wrong and never explain how. Be a boring board.

 

[Elnora]

Originally posted by Timtoolman:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Elnora:
No, you are not rightly dividing the Word of truth. And John was not speaking idle words. So you are again misapplying scripture.

Now elenor, sister,(and my equal

) this kind of post amazes me. Where has he not rightly divided the word from his post on the def. of submit?
What is the reasoning? What if we all just said No that is not right, you are interpting it wrong and never explain how. Be a boring board. </font>[/QUOTE]Tim.

As are you. A brother. I was referring to the false accusations. Tactics that are used to cause fear. For we are not given a spirit of fear... We can disagee and try to show why we believe what we believe without trying to manipulate a brother by using fear and accusations.

 

[PastorGreg]

"As to the Lord" does not mean a wife can submit when she thinks her husband is right. It means he stands in the Lord's place as her authority and she is to submit to him in the same way she is to submit to the Lord. A little broader look at Scripture makes that very obvious. Verse 24 says, "Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in everything." "Everything" is pretty self-explanatory (unless you want to go to the Greek to prove that it doesn't mean what it says.) Does submission equal obedience? Sarah thought so, and so did the Holy Spirit when he inspired Peter. I Pet. 3:5,6, "For after this manner also the holy women also adorned themselves, being in subjection unto their own husbands, even as Sarah obeyed Abraham calling him lord:" Scripture is very clear. Some people just want to rebel and not obey God, which is really the question.

 

[PastorGreg]

BTW, "Subjection" is I Pet. 3 is also "hupotasso" - the same word as submission in Eph. 5 and is directly tied in I Pet. with obedience.

 

[dianetavegia]

Originally posted by PastorGreg:
BTW, "Subjection" is I Pet. 3 is also "hupotasso" - the same word as submission in Eph. 5 and is directly tied in I Pet. with obedience.

Exactly what my concordances said!

 

[Elnora]

In all things does not me all things as in sin that is why the qualifier as "unto the Lord". Just as Sarah did. What does God tell us about having anything to do with sin. Abraham was a man of faith, Sarah was a godly woman. We are not to agree to sin no matter who tells us to. Read about Abraham and Sarah. The only scripture telling us to obey our husband as Sarah did Abraham relates to that story. She told not ask Abraham. Was it an order, no it was as unto the Lord. God told him, listen to her! The example of Sarah obeying Abraham was to the Lord. Go study it. It is fascinating.

 

[PastorGreg]

"As unto the Lord" does not mean what you say. It means you submit as if he were the Lord. When did Sarah obey Abraham? Twice that we have in Scripture. Both times he told her to lie, and God uses her as an example of a goldy wife.

 

[PastorGreg]

Originally posted by Elnora:
In all things does not me all things as in sin that is why the qualifier as "unto the Lord".

"It all depends on what the meaning of 'is' is." All things means all things. These arguments are usually hypothetical, or are raised by women who simply don't want to follow the God-appointed leadership of their husbands.

 

[Elnora]

The story is about faith. Rahab's story is about faith. In faith against which there is no law.

 

[Johnv]

Originally posted by James Newman:
Am I making this stuff up?

No, you got the Strong's definition right, but the definition alone lacks the context. The rules of koine Greek are not similar to the rules of English.

Originally posted by PastorGreg:
BTW, "Subjection" is I Pet. 3 is also "hupotasso" - the same word as submission in Eph. 5 and is directly tied in I Pet. with obedience.

The "subjection" context is a different context than "submission". Eph 5 is referring to the covanental relationship. 1Peter 3 is referring to how to convince an unbelieving spouses to believe in the word. It's referring to faith and unbelievers.

 

[Elnora]

Originally posted by PastorGreg:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Elnora:
In all things does not me all things as in sin that is why the qualifier as "unto the Lord".

"It all depends on what the meaning of 'is' is." All things means all things. These arguments are usually hypothetical, or are raised by women who simply don't want to follow the God-appointed leadership of their husbands. </font>[/QUOTE]Oh, okay now I'm Bill Clinton

No actually my dad was my influence praise God and he was my example of love because he wasn't fearful. I willingly did anything he ask because I could trust him not to harm me. Ditto my husband, also isn't afraid to submit to God. I trust him as well. Try love some time it works wonders.